What to refill Snow Performance Boost Cooler with?
06-28-2006, 02:34 PM
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What to refill Snow Performance Boost Cooler with?
What is the best solution for filling the boost cooler tank with? I have heard that prestone deicer or something like that is used .....and another guy says there are people running a water/rubbing alcohol mix... I know many people are interested in this answer. Thanks in advance for whatever advice you guys/girls have.
06-28-2006, 11:21 PM
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Water is better at lowering temps, meth is better (since water doesn't at all) at raising the octane. 50/50 is better than 100 water because of the added benefit of the octane booster (meth is ~10
. 100 meth should give the maximum benefits, but at much higher cost than smurf ____ (windshield washer fluid- 49.5% water, 49.5% meth, 1% blue dye/detergent). Strait meth also evaporates around 150 F, so that could present problems depending on where you live and place the tank. And its obviously flammable, whereas the washer fluid isn't. While it seems like a ghetto source, washer fluid is really an excellent choice as it is cheap, available EVERYWHERE, premixed, filtered, distilled... blah blah blah. And it makes the exhaust smell like candle wax.
Actually, wait up. Did some checking...smurf pee is likely closer to 30-40% meth, still about 1% dye/detergent, and the rest water. Some people have concerns about the consistency and accuracy of the mixture compared to a 50/50 self mixed juice from pure meth and pure distilled water. Basically worried about the fact that there's no assurance that different manufacturers will have the same ratios, or even different batches from the same brand. But the reality is that the %age water to meth shouldn't be too critical. There will be minimal power gains/losses with any fluctuation, and the cooling/knock prevetion effects will remain nearly equal. Basically if it doesn't knock with 20meth/80water, it won't knock with 50/50 either, and the converse, unless you have everything tuned to the ragged edge.
The only real variable with smurf ____ is the 1% (possibly greater) of additives. There are some reports that they can gunk up the plumbing and hurt the spray atomization. But a regular maintenance regimen (every 5 tanks of fluid or whatever) should be able to keep that in check. The general usage is about 1 gallon per tank of fuel for street driving, or about 10 minutes of continuous boost. Obviously that can vary a lot depending on how you set things up and how you drive, but those are general guidelines.
Also, make sure that you don't use glycol based fluids (I think the orange RainX is this kind). You want the cheap-o blue stuff, and the colder the operating rating, the better (higher % meth).
. 100 meth should give the maximum benefits, but at much higher cost than smurf ____ (windshield washer fluid- 49.5% water, 49.5% meth, 1% blue dye/detergent). Strait meth also evaporates around 150 F, so that could present problems depending on where you live and place the tank. And its obviously flammable, whereas the washer fluid isn't. While it seems like a ghetto source, washer fluid is really an excellent choice as it is cheap, available EVERYWHERE, premixed, filtered, distilled... blah blah blah. And it makes the exhaust smell like candle wax.Actually, wait up. Did some checking...smurf pee is likely closer to 30-40% meth, still about 1% dye/detergent, and the rest water. Some people have concerns about the consistency and accuracy of the mixture compared to a 50/50 self mixed juice from pure meth and pure distilled water. Basically worried about the fact that there's no assurance that different manufacturers will have the same ratios, or even different batches from the same brand. But the reality is that the %age water to meth shouldn't be too critical. There will be minimal power gains/losses with any fluctuation, and the cooling/knock prevetion effects will remain nearly equal. Basically if it doesn't knock with 20meth/80water, it won't knock with 50/50 either, and the converse, unless you have everything tuned to the ragged edge.
The only real variable with smurf ____ is the 1% (possibly greater) of additives. There are some reports that they can gunk up the plumbing and hurt the spray atomization. But a regular maintenance regimen (every 5 tanks of fluid or whatever) should be able to keep that in check. The general usage is about 1 gallon per tank of fuel for street driving, or about 10 minutes of continuous boost. Obviously that can vary a lot depending on how you set things up and how you drive, but those are general guidelines.
Also, make sure that you don't use glycol based fluids (I think the orange RainX is this kind). You want the cheap-o blue stuff, and the colder the operating rating, the better (higher % meth).
06-29-2006, 12:08 AM
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Never, NEVER use washer fluid in one of these kits. 1 percent detergent is to much. Any detergent is to much.
Ideally you would use a 50/50 mix of Meth and water. You can however use straight meth and some people have reported mixed results with it. I do know that it is slightly more corrosive with straight meth and some people have had problems with pump seals and have had them rebuilt. I personally use a 50/50 mix of Meth and Distilled water on my setup. The water provides decent cooling attributes and the Meth has an octane rating around 120, which allows you to run more timing as if you were on a higher octane fuel.
Alky can be used but keep in mind its NOT the same. Alky has an octane rating closer to 80 and is not nearly as stable as Meth. It is used moreso for its cooling abilities.
Charles
Ideally you would use a 50/50 mix of Meth and water. You can however use straight meth and some people have reported mixed results with it. I do know that it is slightly more corrosive with straight meth and some people have had problems with pump seals and have had them rebuilt. I personally use a 50/50 mix of Meth and Distilled water on my setup. The water provides decent cooling attributes and the Meth has an octane rating around 120, which allows you to run more timing as if you were on a higher octane fuel.
Alky can be used but keep in mind its NOT the same. Alky has an octane rating closer to 80 and is not nearly as stable as Meth. It is used moreso for its cooling abilities.
Charles
06-29-2006, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by TurboCustomz
Never, NEVER use washer fluid in one of these kits. 1 percent detergent is to much. Any detergent is to much.
06-29-2006, 01:24 AM
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I believe you can use any kind of denatured alky. People use the washer fluid because they don't know any better, imo. They thinks its an acceptable replacement and its really not. The detergent effectively reduces the octane because it pollutes the burn.
I'm not sure where you are pricing out meth but I've found its cheaper then race gas. I pay 125 dollars for a 55 gallon drum best I remember. Keep in mind that you don't use it in large quantities and you are cutting it with water so a gallon will last a while depending on your driving habits.
Charles
I'm not sure where you are pricing out meth but I've found its cheaper then race gas. I pay 125 dollars for a 55 gallon drum best I remember. Keep in mind that you don't use it in large quantities and you are cutting it with water so a gallon will last a while depending on your driving habits.
Charles
06-29-2006, 01:47 AM
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This is what RIPP Says ....please comment guys:
1. Do I need an Intercooler with Water/Methanol injection?
Up to approximately 20 psi boost, water/methanol injection will provide all the density increase/detonation control needed in most applications. Most air-to-air intercoolers are only 50-65% efficient. That means for example, that with 11psi boost and its 120°f air charge temperature increase, an intercooler reduces the air charge temperature only 60 degrees. Also, an intercooler will reduce boost 2 - 4 psi. on average.
2. Why not use a windshield washer pump?
Water/Methanol must be injected at above 50psi to properly atomize. Lower than 50psi causes greatly reduced air charge cooling as the result of larger droplets and their reduced total surface area.
3. Why methanol?
Methanol is a high octane fuel that is extremely resistant to detonation with an excellent cost/benefit ratio. ($1.50 - $2.00 per gallon.) Its high latent heat of vaporization also makes it an excellent air charge cooler which means a denser mixture and more horsepower. Because of these facts, it is a better anti-detonate than ethanol or isopropanol although they will work in a pinch. It has however only about 60% of the energy content of gasoline by volume so about twice as much is used to make similar power if used as a straight fuel.
Although most windshield washer fluids contain some glycol and detergent, most fluids are up to 50% alcohol (methanol, ethanol, isopropanol) and make an excellent Boost Cooler®. Try to find one that indicates contains methanol.
The best place to find a perfect mix would be in a window washing solution manufactured by Prestone: Prestone “De-icer 32below” is a perfect blend of methanol and water.
4. How much Water/Methanol and can I use windshield washer fluid?
To prevent detonation, the ratio of Water/Methanol to gasoline is roughly 1 to 5 in gasoline applications. In practice, you give it as much water / methanol as it takes to eliminate detonation without quenching combustion. The amount depends on the onset RPM of injection, the octane of the gasoline, fuel/air ratio, cylinder head type, even the weather conditions. Your engine is actually pretty tolerant of extra water vapor, you will know its too much when the engine misses and loses power.
5. Where can I purchase Methanol?
Methanol can generally be purchased where racing fuels are sold. Also, most gas line dryers like Heat are simply Methanol. Suppliers of industrial chemicals can also supply Methanol usually at a higher price than fuel suppliers. If all else fails, most windshield washer fluids are up to 40% Methanol and 58% water. Methanol can be purchased on the web at www.worldwideracingfuels.com and hiperfuels.com.
6. How long will a tank (2qts.) last?
In high boost/high horsepower application, a full blast 1/4 mile run will utilize as much as 1/8 tank. A larger tank should be considered if over 9psi boost is utilized in road racing where a tank can be used in as few as 6 - 2 mile/ full tilt laps. Under normal street use in a 400HP SDS powered Mitsubishi Eclipse V6, will usually lasts about 500 miles. Two reservoirs can be used for 1-gal total capacity if desired.
7. At what boost level do I introduce Water/Methanol?
Centrifugal superchargers: Generally, at 50% of peak boost the recommended quantity should be introduced. Injection should occur at or near peak boost to avoid combustion quench since peak boost occurs so fast.
8. What ratio of Water/Methanol is recommended?
A 50/50 ratio is recommended. This has been demonstrated to be the best for charge/air cooling, excellent detonation control, and controlling cylinder temperature. This includes diesel applications where water conditions the combustion of the methanol so combustion timing isnt affected.
9. Many recommend NGK Copper core spark plugs in boosted applications. Will these work also with water/methanol injection?
NGK Copper core spark plugs are highly recommended with the RIPP Boost Cooler. NGK Copper cores, with their low firing thresholds and intense spark allow for larger quantities to be injected sooner without misfiring. This allows for more cooling of the intake air. If you have a misfiring problem, nine times out of ten, NGK Copper core will clear it up.
10. Will water/methanol harm my engine?
In theory, at recommended quantities, most of the mixture is evaporated before it hits the combustion chamber. Also, injection only takes place at high boost levels minimizing cylinder wash concerns. Engines that have been torn down after two years of water/methanol usage have shown no wear issues only clean combustion chambers. In fact, water/methanol reduces the probability of engine destroying detonation. Think of it as an insurance policy against detonation.
http://www.rippmods.com/products/pro...&productId=178
1. Do I need an Intercooler with Water/Methanol injection?
Up to approximately 20 psi boost, water/methanol injection will provide all the density increase/detonation control needed in most applications. Most air-to-air intercoolers are only 50-65% efficient. That means for example, that with 11psi boost and its 120°f air charge temperature increase, an intercooler reduces the air charge temperature only 60 degrees. Also, an intercooler will reduce boost 2 - 4 psi. on average.
2. Why not use a windshield washer pump?
Water/Methanol must be injected at above 50psi to properly atomize. Lower than 50psi causes greatly reduced air charge cooling as the result of larger droplets and their reduced total surface area.
3. Why methanol?
Methanol is a high octane fuel that is extremely resistant to detonation with an excellent cost/benefit ratio. ($1.50 - $2.00 per gallon.) Its high latent heat of vaporization also makes it an excellent air charge cooler which means a denser mixture and more horsepower. Because of these facts, it is a better anti-detonate than ethanol or isopropanol although they will work in a pinch. It has however only about 60% of the energy content of gasoline by volume so about twice as much is used to make similar power if used as a straight fuel.
Although most windshield washer fluids contain some glycol and detergent, most fluids are up to 50% alcohol (methanol, ethanol, isopropanol) and make an excellent Boost Cooler®. Try to find one that indicates contains methanol.
The best place to find a perfect mix would be in a window washing solution manufactured by Prestone: Prestone “De-icer 32below” is a perfect blend of methanol and water.
4. How much Water/Methanol and can I use windshield washer fluid?
To prevent detonation, the ratio of Water/Methanol to gasoline is roughly 1 to 5 in gasoline applications. In practice, you give it as much water / methanol as it takes to eliminate detonation without quenching combustion. The amount depends on the onset RPM of injection, the octane of the gasoline, fuel/air ratio, cylinder head type, even the weather conditions. Your engine is actually pretty tolerant of extra water vapor, you will know its too much when the engine misses and loses power.
5. Where can I purchase Methanol?
Methanol can generally be purchased where racing fuels are sold. Also, most gas line dryers like Heat are simply Methanol. Suppliers of industrial chemicals can also supply Methanol usually at a higher price than fuel suppliers. If all else fails, most windshield washer fluids are up to 40% Methanol and 58% water. Methanol can be purchased on the web at www.worldwideracingfuels.com and hiperfuels.com.
6. How long will a tank (2qts.) last?
In high boost/high horsepower application, a full blast 1/4 mile run will utilize as much as 1/8 tank. A larger tank should be considered if over 9psi boost is utilized in road racing where a tank can be used in as few as 6 - 2 mile/ full tilt laps. Under normal street use in a 400HP SDS powered Mitsubishi Eclipse V6, will usually lasts about 500 miles. Two reservoirs can be used for 1-gal total capacity if desired.
7. At what boost level do I introduce Water/Methanol?
Centrifugal superchargers: Generally, at 50% of peak boost the recommended quantity should be introduced. Injection should occur at or near peak boost to avoid combustion quench since peak boost occurs so fast.
8. What ratio of Water/Methanol is recommended?
A 50/50 ratio is recommended. This has been demonstrated to be the best for charge/air cooling, excellent detonation control, and controlling cylinder temperature. This includes diesel applications where water conditions the combustion of the methanol so combustion timing isnt affected.
9. Many recommend NGK Copper core spark plugs in boosted applications. Will these work also with water/methanol injection?
NGK Copper core spark plugs are highly recommended with the RIPP Boost Cooler. NGK Copper cores, with their low firing thresholds and intense spark allow for larger quantities to be injected sooner without misfiring. This allows for more cooling of the intake air. If you have a misfiring problem, nine times out of ten, NGK Copper core will clear it up.
10. Will water/methanol harm my engine?
In theory, at recommended quantities, most of the mixture is evaporated before it hits the combustion chamber. Also, injection only takes place at high boost levels minimizing cylinder wash concerns. Engines that have been torn down after two years of water/methanol usage have shown no wear issues only clean combustion chambers. In fact, water/methanol reduces the probability of engine destroying detonation. Think of it as an insurance policy against detonation.
http://www.rippmods.com/products/pro...&productId=178
06-29-2006, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TurboCustomz
Never, NEVER use washer fluid in one of these kits. 1 percent detergent is to much. Any detergent is to much.
Charles
Charles
Originally Posted by TurboCustomz
People use the washer fluid because they don't know any better, imo. They thinks its an acceptable replacement and its really not. The detergent effectively reduces the octane because it pollutes the burn.
Well for the motorcraft windshield washer concentrate, is straight meth. Here is the MSDS sheet to prove it..
http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricant...us163339us.pdf
Washer fluid/distilled water is a great cheap media for a boost cooler! Just make sure to read the ingrediants, and know what your getting.
06-29-2006, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by zer0
Originally Posted by TurboCustomz
Never, NEVER use washer fluid in one of these kits. 1 percent detergent is to much. Any detergent is to much.
Charles
Charles
Originally Posted by TurboCustomz
People use the washer fluid because they don't know any better, imo. They thinks its an acceptable replacement and its really not. The detergent effectively reduces the octane because it pollutes the burn.
Well for the motorcraft windshield washer concentrate, is straight meth. Here is the MSDS sheet to prove it..
http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricant...us163339us.pdf
Washer fluid/distilled water is a great cheap media for a boost cooler! Just make sure to read the ingrediants, and know what your getting.
06-29-2006, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by zer0
Originally Posted by TurboCustomz
Never, NEVER use washer fluid in one of these kits. 1 percent detergent is to much. Any detergent is to much.
Charles
Charles
Originally Posted by TurboCustomz
People use the washer fluid because they don't know any better, imo. They thinks its an acceptable replacement and its really not. The detergent effectively reduces the octane because it pollutes the burn.
Well for the motorcraft windshield washer concentrate, is straight meth. Here is the MSDS sheet to prove it..
http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricant...us163339us.pdf
Washer fluid/distilled water is a great cheap media for a boost cooler! Just make sure to read the ingrediants, and know what your getting.
I'd venture to say that you could use the motorcraft product as a replacement but as cheap as meth is and water is free for all intents and purposes, I'd rather be safe and juse make my own solution then chance it.
06-29-2006, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by PghtC
yeah this is a good topic.
and it does say 90% methyl alcohol...what is the other 10%?
and it does say 90% methyl alcohol...what is the other 10%?
Methanol, its 100% safe to use. Been using it for a while on other cars.
Anybody else have any suggestions?
06-29-2006, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by zer0
Originally Posted by PghtC
yeah this is a good topic.
and it does say 90% methyl alcohol...what is the other 10%?
and it does say 90% methyl alcohol...what is the other 10%?
Methanol, its 100% safe to use. Been using it for a while on other cars.
Anybody else have any suggestions?
Anyways, for you guys looking for motocraft, you can usually pick that stuff up from Ford Dealerships.
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