kytc

I'll try and get a price together for everything so a s/c guy or me or whoever can try and get this done.

kytc

Ok, I found a kit and I'm waiting on Sciondad to pm me back about it to see if it's what we want so I'll post up with the price once he pm's me back. The kit I'm looking at will need piping made (SC to Intercooler to Throttlebody) but other than that it should have everything.

nester

Yes, we'll be happy to offer this as a upgrade to our Stage 0 turbo kit. This can be replicated, as needed.

Give the shop a call if you're interested.

Serialk1llr

Next wuestion, is this only a setup you'd want to run on a stage 0 kit of any kind? *F/I ignorant* or could this be used on lager power-making setups (i.e., stage 1, 2, 3, etc.)

depogrig

they have units for up to 1200+ HP applications
http://www.pwr-performance.com/intercooler.htm

cant wait to see some installed pics and dyno and some thoughts on how its working out.

kungpaosamuraiii

Next question: how about we run this in addition to an FMIC?

I would rather not have to refill a water/alky injector resevoir.

Or better yet, run all three cooling devices. Talk about a cold charge...

depogrig

im almost certain this is a closed system, hense the radiator. you are circulating the same coolant in the system. its not being sprayed into the intake charge. there are fins inside the tube filled with the coolant. this should be more efficient than a fmic because the coolant can drop the charge lower than ambient temperature and still be effective even when the car is not moving.

kungpaosamuraiii

That's not my point. I know this type of cooler is a air-water cooler and not a water injector system.

But what happens when one combines this cooler with an FMIC. The net effect, from a basic preview, would be that the charge air post FMIC would be cooler and closer to ambient temperature and thence would be easier to be made even cooler by the PWR unit. After or even before that, with a mister, the intake charge would be even cooler. So common sense would dictate that combining all three systems would create a very cool breathing system but more often than not, common sense just isn't true for cars, especially these modern fuel injected cars. However, I don't think that modern or not has anything to do with this since this is a turbo system and turbos have been around for a long long while. I'm just afraid there might be a great pressure drop or build up of back pressure within the intake tract due to a such a cold mass of air. What is true in an exhaust pipe is also true in an intake pipe. If the temperature gets too low, the charge matter becomes denser (this is true with all things, save water to ice) so it'll be more difficult to move the charge matter.

If all three cooling systems, or even if it is just the FMIC and PWR unit, are activated, at low RPM and moderate speed, for instance, in 5th gear at around 40 mph or whatever, on a cold day, or after a gear shift, once the turbo starts spooling it may encounter a situation wherein too little exhaust gas is used to propel too dense an intake charge, and result in surge.

I'm curious if this actually is a problem. I don't think it is, but I have little experience with more than one cooling system.

kytc

This system is not used with a FMIC. Water to Air cooling came about as a replacement for front mounts. Front Mounts are good things but they have their drawbacks. For one the length of the piping equals pressure loss. Secondly a FMIC can only cool the air as much as the air around you. Now this would be fine if we all lived in Canada but the temperatures around most people don't stay too cool in the summer time. Water to air intercoolers work because the temperature can get as low as your water is cold. This works very well because your water will not heat up nearly as much as the air around you will.

kytc

A big reason water to air is good is mainly just because of the shorter piping besides the temperature. That much piping of combining the two systems would be a boost killer. That's mainly why you wouldn't combine FMIC and water to air.

Nick06tC

I am deffinetly interested in this for the supercharger. I think if the supercharger were rotated up so that the outtake was point more skyward, that there would be plenty of room to run the piping up to the unit then down to the throttle body. I dont see any reason why it would work. I guess the only consideration would be room between the supercharger/enigine and the hood.

Typhoon

when i get zpi stqage 0 ill def be intersted in this now can anyone explain some downsides to this system that arent ther with a fmic?

kungpaosamuraiii

This still doesn't answer my question.

What IF one were to run an FMIC IN ADDITION to the PWR water-air cooler. A WAIC does have the capability to decrease intake charge temperature below ambient temperature. A FMIC does have the capability to decrease ICT to about ambient temperature. Of course a WAIC is better and more efficient. But as efficient as it is, the whole system does absorb heat. If the system absorbs heat, then there can be less heat reduction from the water. Of course, this is alleviated by the radiator. However, the water is air cooled and not water cooled so the heat exchanger is encumbered with the air cooling deficiency. There is a fan that takes care of this so the water can return to below-ambient temperature. But all the same, we can avoid all this drama by reducing the PWR cooled input air to ambient temperature in the first place. By reducing the PWR's input temperature, the PWR will be able to run more efficiently and will, as a system, absorb even less heat allowing even lower temperatures. This "precooler" will be the FMIC.

But again, this all sounds good, to me at least, but on larger or heavier turbos, at low RPM, with the situations I have prior mentioned, there may be problems with surge. The exhaust gas charge must contain enough kinetic energy to move a fairly dense intake charge matter as well as the compressor, as well as the turbine; and after that, it must retain enough kinetic energy to exit the exhaust fast enough to make room for the next exhaust charge.

I doubt it's a problem, especially with these modern efficient turbos, but still, I would like to know if anyone's experience with this stuff.

kytc

I think I understand your question now, lol. I would think, idk someone can correct me if wrong, the only downfall of combining the two systems besides price would be the pipe length and boost loss from it. If you wanted further cooling I would suggest meth/water injection because it would be cheaper and you wouldn't have boost loss from using this with an intercooler. But besides boost loss I don't see a problem with running both systems if you can afford it.

ScionDad

I agree, using a FMIC with this would be really killing boost for no reason. Keeping the charge pipe 2 or so feet long means crazy fast boost build with excellent cooling.

I bought this several months ago and it rated for 300 hp (stage 1 I was thinking). Now kctc points out, it says 270 hp for the small one.

Why do they even rate this for hp as opposed to psi rating...meaning how much air can flow by. Some may build 9 psi and run 220 hp where others may run 9 psi and push 300 hp. Pressure is pressure just like vacuum is vacuum.

I'm just gonna use it to cool it down.

kungpaosamuraiii

The pressure lost is pretty low for either system. For the WAIC, of course, it's lower. But an efficient FMIC won't lose too much boost; however, the setup will involve dramatically increased piping.

But it'd be worth it, for, say, 14+ psi? A mister would be nice and all but for one, the PWR water cooler looks better and two, I won't have to refill it. Or I could use all three.

I think though, that by the time I boost enough to warrant the effective use of both cooling systems, it'd be better to just get a more effective version of the WAIC.

Typhoon

I meant downsides to the chage cooler over fmic? are there even any?

kungpaosamuraiii

For the most part, none! The fan is run off of electricity I think so that would cause a larger drain on electricity but unless your electrics are taxed as is, there's no problem there. You also need to place your water radiator somewhere; finding a location and mounting it maybe a little difficult but none more difficult than mounting an FMIC. The coolant lines for the WAIC requires proper setup but that's basically common sense type stuff, as in, don't run one of the lines between two of the header runners, cause that's bad.

Serialk1llr

Badass. Then only thing that -might- worry me is a fan crapping out. then it'd be a passive system. Any worse than a FMIC that it might cause damage?

ScionDad

Na, no issue there. If the fan did fail, the only real impact would be sitting still, because while rolling (only time under boost), air will be passing thru the radiator.