ZPI Stage 0 questions
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11-07-2006 | 12:27 AM
#3
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You will run out of injector at 11psi... 6psi is safe and pushing the limits of stock fuel from what ive seen.. no intercooler at higher psi will harm performance... I have no idea what a stage 0 runs in the 1/4... my guess is 14s.
11-07-2006 | 12:40 AM
#4
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From: Daly City, CA
There's no way a stage 0 can do 13's without a tune and extra modifications. You can't really do much with stock injectors and a non-intercooled setup but it's seems like a good turbo kit for the price.
11-07-2006 | 12:53 AM
#6
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so i take it that it wont be necessary to buy a mbc with the stage 0. anyone with this setup have any 1/4 mile times? i dont want to get this thread into a big discussion of this but i presume its slightly faster than with the trd sc?
11-07-2006 | 03:46 AM
#8
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From: Daly City, CA
I don't know about 250whp at 6psi... It's kinda hard to imagine hitting 13s with the stage 0 kit right out of the box. Maybe 14 flat if you're a really good driver because the Greddy intercooled kit with more boost and slightly bigger turbo can't even do 13s without tuning and other mods. I wouldn't expect more than what the stage 0 is capable of.
11-07-2006 | 06:39 AM
#9
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From: Memphis, TN
i dont know why you wouldnt expect that with a stage 0 kit, it spools faster than the bigger turbo which in turn from what ive seen would give you more useable power all the way to redline. yes, from what i understand the larger turbo would make more power but it would take a little longer to get into that power. this is just my understanding of the nature of turbos. please let me know if im wrong on any part of it, but please do it in a nice informative way.
11-07-2006 | 07:03 AM
#10
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Most people launch at around 2.5k rpm anyways. If you think that 500 rpm worth of a difference of 3 psi will make a huge difference in 1/4 mile time then sure. Besides, the difference in spool from a 16 to an 18 (or 20?)G is pretty negligible. Noticeable would be the difference between a 16G and a GT35R.
With that outta the way, let's look at integrals, areas under the curve (namely, the power curve.) Power is the rate at which a certain amount of work is done so it's safe to say at a given power level, there is a discrete speed associated with that power level.
If the power curve can be seen as a speed chart, the area under the curve is distance traveled. So looking at that 16G vs GT35RS chart, we see that the 16G, let's just say, makes a big beefy torque hump and plateaus by 3k rpm while that's where the GT35RS is only starting to make power. However, GT35RS makes a huge mountain on the chart and towers over the plateau that the 16G makes.
At the end of 6000 rpm, find the area under both curves and if they're equal, they just covered the same distance, and both cars would have finished the race at the same time.
This is a VERY simplified explanation and there are a lot of other factors to consider. In this example, both cars are identical except for turbo choice, both cars have only one gear.
To better apply this to the real world, this "race" could have been just first gear. At the end of the 6000 rpm race, both drivers shift, fall to about 5000 rpm, who has more useable power now? The entire race, except for the beginning, is done from 5 to 6000k rpm which is where the GT35RS's hp mountain whereas the 16G has to make due with its diminuitive plateau.
But in the real real world, all else equal, the difference between a 16 and 20G is up to the driver more than anything else.
With that outta the way, let's look at integrals, areas under the curve (namely, the power curve.) Power is the rate at which a certain amount of work is done so it's safe to say at a given power level, there is a discrete speed associated with that power level.
If the power curve can be seen as a speed chart, the area under the curve is distance traveled. So looking at that 16G vs GT35RS chart, we see that the 16G, let's just say, makes a big beefy torque hump and plateaus by 3k rpm while that's where the GT35RS is only starting to make power. However, GT35RS makes a huge mountain on the chart and towers over the plateau that the 16G makes.
At the end of 6000 rpm, find the area under both curves and if they're equal, they just covered the same distance, and both cars would have finished the race at the same time.
This is a VERY simplified explanation and there are a lot of other factors to consider. In this example, both cars are identical except for turbo choice, both cars have only one gear.
To better apply this to the real world, this "race" could have been just first gear. At the end of the 6000 rpm race, both drivers shift, fall to about 5000 rpm, who has more useable power now? The entire race, except for the beginning, is done from 5 to 6000k rpm which is where the GT35RS's hp mountain whereas the 16G has to make due with its diminuitive plateau.
But in the real real world, all else equal, the difference between a 16 and 20G is up to the driver more than anything else.
11-07-2006 | 05:18 PM
#14
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From: new orleans La.
Originally Posted by kungpaosamuraiii
Most people launch at around 2.5k rpm anyways. If you think that 500 rpm worth of a difference of 3 psi will make a huge difference in 1/4 mile time then sure. Besides, the difference in spool from a 16 to an 18 (or 20?)G is pretty negligible. Noticeable would be the difference between a 16G and a GT35R.
With that outta the way, let's look at integrals, areas under the curve (namely, the power curve.) Power is the rate at which a certain amount of work is done so it's safe to say at a given power level, there is a discrete speed associated with that power level.
If the power curve can be seen as a speed chart, the area under the curve is distance traveled. So looking at that 16G vs GT35RS chart, we see that the 16G, let's just say, makes a big beefy torque hump and plateaus by 3k rpm while that's where the GT35RS is only starting to make power. However, GT35RS makes a huge mountain on the chart and towers over the plateau that the 16G makes.
At the end of 6000 rpm, find the area under both curves and if they're equal, they just covered the same distance, and both cars would have finished the race at the same time.
This is a VERY simplified explanation and there are a lot of other factors to consider. In this example, both cars are identical except for turbo choice, both cars have only one gear.
To better apply this to the real world, this "race" could have been just first gear. At the end of the 6000 rpm race, both drivers shift, fall to about 5000 rpm, who has more useable power now? The entire race, except for the beginning, is done from 5 to 6000k rpm which is where the GT35RS's hp mountain whereas the 16G has to make due with its diminuitive plateau.
But in the real real world, all else equal, the difference between a 16 and 20G is up to the driver more than anything else.
With that outta the way, let's look at integrals, areas under the curve (namely, the power curve.) Power is the rate at which a certain amount of work is done so it's safe to say at a given power level, there is a discrete speed associated with that power level.
If the power curve can be seen as a speed chart, the area under the curve is distance traveled. So looking at that 16G vs GT35RS chart, we see that the 16G, let's just say, makes a big beefy torque hump and plateaus by 3k rpm while that's where the GT35RS is only starting to make power. However, GT35RS makes a huge mountain on the chart and towers over the plateau that the 16G makes.
At the end of 6000 rpm, find the area under both curves and if they're equal, they just covered the same distance, and both cars would have finished the race at the same time.
This is a VERY simplified explanation and there are a lot of other factors to consider. In this example, both cars are identical except for turbo choice, both cars have only one gear.
To better apply this to the real world, this "race" could have been just first gear. At the end of the 6000 rpm race, both drivers shift, fall to about 5000 rpm, who has more useable power now? The entire race, except for the beginning, is done from 5 to 6000k rpm which is where the GT35RS's hp mountain whereas the 16G has to make due with its diminuitive plateau.
But in the real real world, all else equal, the difference between a 16 and 20G is up to the driver more than anything else.
u really cant compare the 16g to the gt35 . at 6lbs the compressor on the 16g is more efficient and will prolly actually make more power . you also have to take into consideration that most with a gt35 will not run a small enough turbine housing to even make the turbo spool good .
11-07-2006 | 07:39 PM
#15
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From: Louisville, KY
All depends on tires.....slicks on a stage 0 can turn high 13's low 14's. We have seen 14.3 on stock wheels and tires... Drag times are hard to estimate becuase so much depends on the driver, suspension, tire etc..
11-07-2006 | 10:53 PM
#18
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From: Daly City, CA
Originally Posted by toyotaracer9
^ I thought I read somewhere on here that someone dynoed 250whp with full exhaust ? maybe not . but 230whp should be high 13s easy .
http://www.dragtimes.com/Scion--tC-Drag-Racing.html
Compare the setups and horsepower rating then figure out if a stage 0 is easily capable of doing 13's.
Btw, a ZPI stage 1 kit is listed at 13.6 on there.
11-07-2006 | 11:53 PM
#20
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From: new orleans La.
Originally Posted by stillmatic
Originally Posted by toyotaracer9
^ I thought I read somewhere on here that someone dynoed 250whp with full exhaust ? maybe not . but 230whp should be high 13s easy .
http://www.dragtimes.com/Scion--tC-Drag-Racing.html
Compare the setups and horsepower rating then figure out if a stage 0 is easily capable of doing 13's.
Btw, a ZPI stage 1 kit is listed at 13.6 on there.
u need to go educate yourself , just because those guys cant run a 13 sec. pass dont mean someone else cant . if the car is really making 230whp it should run high 13s . and a trap of 100mph should be a 13 sec. run .