Which is better for a TC, Magnaflow or TRD?
09-21-2004, 05:15 PM
#41
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Palm Bay, Florida
Posts: 1,899
Originally Posted by Stylis
2200fire- So nice to see that I have to prove you wrong on the forums AGAIN!
The pipe size I am using is 21/4inch OD and the secondary cat is removed so it is not-smog legal. That is why I listed it as not smog legal,also the catback I designed replaces the whole section from the flange not the secondary cat. It bolts onto the system perfectly.
So now everything you typed was not needed, because you thought the system attaches to the back of the secondary cat. The system replaces everything from the back pipe of the thermal reactor.(manifold catalytic converter) <<<<remember this one, you thought it wasn't real!!!
Also you forget that a lot of scion owners like to install their own stuff, not everyone like to have stuff installed by a dealer or shop. A lot of scion owners are DIY types, so try to back off and simer down you GM guy.
The pipe size I am using is 21/4inch OD and the secondary cat is removed so it is not-smog legal. That is why I listed it as not smog legal,also the catback I designed replaces the whole section from the flange not the secondary cat. It bolts onto the system perfectly.
So now everything you typed was not needed, because you thought the system attaches to the back of the secondary cat. The system replaces everything from the back pipe of the thermal reactor.(manifold catalytic converter) <<<<remember this one, you thought it wasn't real!!!
Also you forget that a lot of scion owners like to install their own stuff, not everyone like to have stuff installed by a dealer or shop. A lot of scion owners are DIY types, so try to back off and simer down you GM guy.
09-21-2004, 06:01 PM
#42
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SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 85
hahaaha funny dude. dont jump to cocky conclusions. i understood that your system bypassed the sec cat and that it wasnt smog legal. so before you try "proving someone wrong" again you should read their posts carefully.
^ was not reffering to your system. i was reffering to yoru statement about a cat back system that leaves the sec cat in wont give any more performance over stock. but you obviously were so set on tryign to prove me wrong you mis understood and thought i was reffering to the system that you sell.
my entire post WAS ASKING more specifics on how it was set up.
AND if your system is actually connected to the main thermal reactor which is also the header, i think a more accurate name imo is header-back exhaust.
what is te stock size pipe on the tc? you use 2.25... how much of an increase is that?
again i completely understood that your system gets rid of the sec cat. i merely typed up a comparison of differnt types of exhaust that are possible with the tc and what a ballpark estimate on types of gains for each. i did that because i actually wanted you to tell me more specifics.
since you went to 2.25 which i assume is larger than stock and goes from the header back than it is pretty much the %100 best way to go( just the smog issue may coem into play for some)
if you didnt read every word of this post stylis then re-read now, i dontwant to have to take 2 posts to explain somethign you misunderstood in the first one again.
i understand you may feel a little defensive because it may seem liek im tryign to take away from yoru bussiness, but im just trying to understand the full specs of yoru system and so other people know the options.
if smog isnt an issue and you told me you increased pipe size than yoru system sounds pretty good man. you were quite rude when i was justign tryign to get more info man. and i was merely stating that your statement about a cat back with the sec cat still in wouldnt give gains was incorrect.
try not to be childish this time. thanx im not attacking you just want more info
you also say that leaving the sec cat and doing a cat back wont improve anything... this is only the case if you kept the stock pipe diameter, which again would be pointless. however if you ARE increasing the pipe size than a cat back even with the cat still in, WILL improve performance over stock as long as the new system is larger diameter... i may be misunderstanding what yrou sayign and if so then excuse my misunderstanding.
my entire post WAS ASKING more specifics on how it was set up.
AND if your system is actually connected to the main thermal reactor which is also the header, i think a more accurate name imo is header-back exhaust.
what is te stock size pipe on the tc? you use 2.25... how much of an increase is that?
axle back with same size pipe = pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
axle back with larger pipe= a small gain in hp also depending on muffler
cat back with sec cat in stock pipe size= pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
cat back without sec cat and stock pipe size= small gain in hp also dependant on muffler possible stylis catback
cat back with sec cat IN and larger pipe = high gain in hp slightly dependant on muffler gives performance and is smog legal %100
cat back with out sec cat and larger pipe= highest gains possible from a cat back system but not road legal. possible stylis system
axle back with larger pipe= a small gain in hp also depending on muffler
cat back with sec cat in stock pipe size= pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
cat back without sec cat and stock pipe size= small gain in hp also dependant on muffler possible stylis catback
cat back with sec cat IN and larger pipe = high gain in hp slightly dependant on muffler gives performance and is smog legal %100
cat back with out sec cat and larger pipe= highest gains possible from a cat back system but not road legal. possible stylis system
since you went to 2.25 which i assume is larger than stock and goes from the header back than it is pretty much the %100 best way to go( just the smog issue may coem into play for some)
if you didnt read every word of this post stylis then re-read now, i dontwant to have to take 2 posts to explain somethign you misunderstood in the first one again.
i understand you may feel a little defensive because it may seem liek im tryign to take away from yoru bussiness, but im just trying to understand the full specs of yoru system and so other people know the options.
if smog isnt an issue and you told me you increased pipe size than yoru system sounds pretty good man. you were quite rude when i was justign tryign to get more info man. and i was merely stating that your statement about a cat back with the sec cat still in wouldnt give gains was incorrect.
try not to be childish this time. thanx im not attacking you just want more info
09-21-2004, 07:09 PM
#43
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 424
2200Fire:
I read your original post, and it looked like you hadn't read any of the previous posts... either that or it was simply a bit ridiculous to be answering questions that made no sense and it really didn't seem as if they were asked...
which I had answered before, that it was 2 1/4"
it isn't, and if you had read the post you would have understood this, so this question is moot
this just didn't make any sense... he never said that the axle back would yield much over the cat back, he said the opposite. The axle back would produce little gains over stock and definitely no gains over a cat back exhaust modification
yes you did misunderstand... either that or you didn't bother to read the previous posts, in either case this is again moot
yes according to what you wrote your last statement is correct, but they are all relative statements in response to questions no one asked and quite frankly are so vague and general to be completely useless because each of those situations will be different per automotive application. Unless you test and check you will not know for each vehicle
god this is getting old, now I know why Stylis has so little patience for you...
1) price will depend upon where you are
2) what you describe is an axle back with a extra bit longer larger diameter pipe that goes to the secondary cat instead of just the axle
3)no what you describe SHOULD not out perform a cat back exhaust, because if you had read the previous posts then you would have realized what is being described removes the secondary cat, which BY YOUR OWN DESCRIPTION are the "highest gains possible from a cat back system"
what you are describing is a "pre-made catback" except you are purchasing it from a local shop... :sigh: Gabe does the same damn thing in his shop with a longer piece of pipe and removed secondary cat... He doesn't order these out of a catalog and ship them out, he buys the parts and makes them in his shop. So in essence a "custom" catback
"read their posts carefully"?? omg... either way from your previous writeup perhaps you should take a bit of your own advice because your post seemed to lack any sort of understanding of the issue at hand
well considering this topic had evolved into what the Precision Muffler exhaust set up was it is a bit off topic to be going on about hypothetical systems. At the very least it is redundant to be going over that again considering again the application specific gains/losses that should be derived from experimentation
if you had bothered to read the thread you wouldn't need to ask such a question
at this point I would imagine your opinion isn't going to be held in very high regard... but considering the component the pipe is making contact with is a catalytic converter and not the header then no, "header-back exhaust" isn't particularly accurate since most systems of that type include a replacement catalytic converter which the cat-back exhaust does not...
wow, your first legitimate question... and I'll answer... stock tC pipe size is 2.125 inches... so you're going up about 1/4 an inch w/ Gabe's system... but from what we've seen so far is as large as anyone would want to go short of forced induction
considering you went off on a random "informative" tangent it seemed as if no you didn't know what his system was composed of, since the whole post seemed aimed in his direction
we did read your post, the both of us... and came to the same conclusion.. that you were either going off on some odd tangent or had no idea what you were talking about...
he felt defensive because he doesn't have a particularly high regard for your thoughts, and quite frankly I am starting to agree with him... he doesn't worry about losing system sales, the gear stands on its own grounds and merits. Plenty of satisfied customers will attest to that here and across the country. These are people who have gone from becoming customers to becoming friends of his because they realize he is a person they can trust, he comes front and forward with what he thinks and participates heavily here in the forums both as a participant and a moderator
i've actually taken the time to re-read the thread, and besides a statement where he describes that an axle back won't give too much gains, which it gives nearly none (anything under 1hp is falling into statistical variance for my tastes) from dyno numbers done on the tC specifically (not just general thoughts on how exhaust systems compare)
read the posts, learn some knowledge and stop frustrating people with what seems your rather odd posts that lead to nothing...
I read your original post, and it looked like you hadn't read any of the previous posts... either that or it was simply a bit ridiculous to be answering questions that made no sense and it really didn't seem as if they were asked...
stylis-
what size pipe is used on your cat back? is it the same or larger than stock?
what size pipe is used on your cat back? is it the same or larger than stock?
if it is the same size as stock what would be the point? not changing the pipe size will yield the same results as only switching the muffler out.
if it is larger, how can you say that a xle back wont yield much over a cat back? there would be more pipe that is of larger diameter meaning slightly better air flow.
you also say that leaving the sec cat and doing a cat back wont improve anything... this is only the case if you kept the stock pipe diameter, which again would be pointless. however if you ARE increasing the pipe size than a cat back even with the cat still in, WILL improve performance over stock as long as the new system is larger diameter... i may be misunderstanding what yrou sayign and if so then excuse my misunderstanding.
axle back with same size pipe = pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
axle back with larger pipe= a small gain in hp also depending on muffler
cat back with sec cat in stock pipe size= pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
cat back without sec cat and stock pipe size= small gain in hp also dependant on muffler
cat back with sec cat IN and larger pipe = high gain in hp slightly dependant on muffler
cat back with out sec cat and larger pipe= highest gains possible from a cat back system but not road legal.
so according to the above... the onyl way any axle back or cat back is worth it is if it increases the pipe diameter, if it does not all your doing is payign for a new muffler.
axle back with larger pipe= a small gain in hp also depending on muffler
cat back with sec cat in stock pipe size= pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
cat back without sec cat and stock pipe size= small gain in hp also dependant on muffler
cat back with sec cat IN and larger pipe = high gain in hp slightly dependant on muffler
cat back with out sec cat and larger pipe= highest gains possible from a cat back system but not road legal.
so according to the above... the onyl way any axle back or cat back is worth it is if it increases the pipe diameter, if it does not all your doing is payign for a new muffler.
ALSO, you can get a exhaust set up for even under 300.
all you have to do is go to a shop that does pressure or mandrel bent pipes (never evr ever get crushed bent) buy a magnaflow muffler (or your choice borla, greddy) and tell them to run (insert larger diamter size pipe here) from the sec cat to the muffler.
and now you have a CUSTOM catback that is street legal that will out perform any axle back and any catback that didnt increase the pipe size. it will take most shops 1-2 hours to complete and in my area is under $250 and %100 smog legal in every way.
all you have to do is go to a shop that does pressure or mandrel bent pipes (never evr ever get crushed bent) buy a magnaflow muffler (or your choice borla, greddy) and tell them to run (insert larger diamter size pipe here) from the sec cat to the muffler.
and now you have a CUSTOM catback that is street legal that will out perform any axle back and any catback that didnt increase the pipe size. it will take most shops 1-2 hours to complete and in my area is under $250 and %100 smog legal in every way.
1) price will depend upon where you are
2) what you describe is an axle back with a extra bit longer larger diameter pipe that goes to the secondary cat instead of just the axle
3)no what you describe SHOULD not out perform a cat back exhaust, because if you had read the previous posts then you would have realized what is being described removes the secondary cat, which BY YOUR OWN DESCRIPTION are the "highest gains possible from a cat back system"
i never really understood people buying pre-made catbacks unless it only foro bragging rights to say you have a (x) brand cat back. personally id rather brag about havign a CUSTOM (x)brand catback and that i got it for under 300 dollars
hahaaha funny dude. dont jump to cocky conclusions. i understood that your system bypassed the sec cat and that it wasnt smog legal. so before you try "proving someone wrong" again you should read their posts carefully.
you also say that leaving the sec cat and doing a cat back wont improve anything... this is only the case if you kept the stock pipe diameter, which again would be pointless. however if you ARE increasing the pipe size than a cat back even with the cat still in, WILL improve performance over stock as long as the new system is larger diameter... i may be misunderstanding what yrou sayign and if so then excuse my misunderstanding.
^ was not reffering to your system. i was reffering to yoru statement about a cat back system that leaves the sec cat in wont give any more performance over stock. but you obviously were so set on tryign to prove me wrong you mis understood and thought i was reffering to the system that you sell.
^ was not reffering to your system. i was reffering to yoru statement about a cat back system that leaves the sec cat in wont give any more performance over stock. but you obviously were so set on tryign to prove me wrong you mis understood and thought i was reffering to the system that you sell.
my entire post WAS ASKING more specifics on how it was set up.
AND if your system is actually connected to the main thermal reactor which is also the header, i think a more accurate name imo is header-back exhaust.
what is te stock size pipe on the tc? you use 2.25... how much of an increase is that?
axle back with same size pipe = pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
axle back with larger pipe= a small gain in hp also depending on muffler
cat back with sec cat in stock pipe size= pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
cat back without sec cat and stock pipe size= small gain in hp also dependant on muffler possible stylis catback
cat back with sec cat IN and larger pipe = high gain in hp slightly dependant on muffler gives performance and is smog legal %100
cat back with out sec cat and larger pipe= highest gains possible from a cat back system but not road legal. possible stylis system
again i completely understood that your system gets rid of the sec cat. i merely typed up a comparison of differnt types of exhaust that are possible with the tc and what a ballpark estimate on types of gains for each. i did that because i actually wanted you to tell me more specifics.
axle back with larger pipe= a small gain in hp also depending on muffler
cat back with sec cat in stock pipe size= pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
cat back without sec cat and stock pipe size= small gain in hp also dependant on muffler possible stylis catback
cat back with sec cat IN and larger pipe = high gain in hp slightly dependant on muffler gives performance and is smog legal %100
cat back with out sec cat and larger pipe= highest gains possible from a cat back system but not road legal. possible stylis system
again i completely understood that your system gets rid of the sec cat. i merely typed up a comparison of differnt types of exhaust that are possible with the tc and what a ballpark estimate on types of gains for each. i did that because i actually wanted you to tell me more specifics.
if you didnt read every word of this post stylis then re-read now, i dontwant to have to take 2 posts to explain somethign you misunderstood in the first one again.
i understand you may feel a little defensive because it may seem liek im tryign to take away from yoru bussiness, but im just trying to understand the full specs of yoru system and so other people know the options.
if smog isnt an issue and you told me you increased pipe size than yoru system sounds pretty good man. you were quite rude when i was justign tryign to get more info man. and i was merely stating that your statement about a cat back with the sec cat still in wouldnt give gains was incorrect.
try not to be childish this time. thanx im not attacking you just want more info
09-21-2004, 07:30 PM
#45
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whitewater, WI
Posts: 34
You really need to go exercise or work..or something.. Too Much Time on Your Hands to be "quoting" like that. Ugh.
It's a exhaust, not Jesus Christ or Buddha.
It's a exhaust, not Jesus Christ or Buddha.
Originally Posted by 2fixA
2200Fire:
I read your original post, and it looked like you hadn't read any of the previous posts... either that or it was simply a bit ridiculous to be answering questions that made no sense and it really didn't seem as if they were asked...
which I had answered before, that it was 2 1/4"
it isn't, and if you had read the post you would have understood this, so this question is moot
this just didn't make any sense... he never said that the axle back would yield much over the cat back, he said the opposite. The axle back would produce little gains over stock and definitely no gains over a cat back exhaust modification
yes you did misunderstand... either that or you didn't bother to read the previous posts, in either case this is again moot
yes according to what you wrote your last statement is correct, but they are all relative statements in response to questions no one asked and quite frankly are so vague and general to be completely useless because each of those situations will be different per automotive application. Unless you test and check you will not know for each vehicle
god this is getting old, now I know why Stylis has so little patience for you...
1) price will depend upon where you are
2) what you describe is an axle back with a extra bit longer larger diameter pipe that goes to the secondary cat instead of just the axle
3)no what you describe SHOULD not out perform a cat back exhaust, because if you had read the previous posts then you would have realized what is being described removes the secondary cat, which BY YOUR OWN DESCRIPTION are the "highest gains possible from a cat back system"
what you are describing is a "pre-made catback" except you are purchasing it from a local shop... :sigh: Gabe does the same damn thing in his shop with a longer piece of pipe and removed secondary cat... He doesn't order these out of a catalog and ship them out, he buys the parts and makes them in his shop. So in essence a "custom" catback
"read their posts carefully"?? omg... either way from your previous writeup perhaps you should take a bit of your own advice because your post seemed to lack any sort of understanding of the issue at hand
well considering this topic had evolved into what the Precision Muffler exhaust set up was it is a bit off topic to be going on about hypothetical systems. At the very least it is redundant to be going over that again considering again the application specific gains/losses that should be derived from experimentation
if you had bothered to read the thread you wouldn't need to ask such a question
at this point I would imagine your opinion isn't going to be held in very high regard... but considering the component the pipe is making contact with is a catalytic converter and not the header then no, "header-back exhaust" isn't particularly accurate since most systems of that type include a replacement catalytic converter which the cat-back exhaust does not...
wow, your first legitimate question... and I'll answer... stock tC pipe size is 2.125 inches... so you're going up about 1/4 an inch w/ Gabe's system... but from what we've seen so far is as large as anyone would want to go short of forced induction
considering you went off on a random "informative" tangent it seemed as if no you didn't know what his system was composed of, since the whole post seemed aimed in his direction
we did read your post, the both of us... and came to the same conclusion.. that you were either going off on some odd tangent or had no idea what you were talking about...
he felt defensive because he doesn't have a particularly high regard for your thoughts, and quite frankly I am starting to agree with him... he doesn't worry about losing system sales, the gear stands on its own grounds and merits. Plenty of satisfied customers will attest to that here and across the country. These are people who have gone from becoming customers to becoming friends of his because they realize he is a person they can trust, he comes front and forward with what he thinks and participates heavily here in the forums both as a participant and a moderator
i've actually taken the time to re-read the thread, and besides a statement where he describes that an axle back won't give too much gains, which it gives nearly none (anything under 1hp is falling into statistical variance for my tastes) from dyno numbers done on the tC specifically (not just general thoughts on how exhaust systems compare)
read the posts, learn some knowledge and stop frustrating people with what seems your rather odd posts that lead to nothing...
I read your original post, and it looked like you hadn't read any of the previous posts... either that or it was simply a bit ridiculous to be answering questions that made no sense and it really didn't seem as if they were asked...
stylis-
what size pipe is used on your cat back? is it the same or larger than stock?
what size pipe is used on your cat back? is it the same or larger than stock?
if it is the same size as stock what would be the point? not changing the pipe size will yield the same results as only switching the muffler out.
if it is larger, how can you say that a xle back wont yield much over a cat back? there would be more pipe that is of larger diameter meaning slightly better air flow.
you also say that leaving the sec cat and doing a cat back wont improve anything... this is only the case if you kept the stock pipe diameter, which again would be pointless. however if you ARE increasing the pipe size than a cat back even with the cat still in, WILL improve performance over stock as long as the new system is larger diameter... i may be misunderstanding what yrou sayign and if so then excuse my misunderstanding.
axle back with same size pipe = pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
axle back with larger pipe= a small gain in hp also depending on muffler
cat back with sec cat in stock pipe size= pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
cat back without sec cat and stock pipe size= small gain in hp also dependant on muffler
cat back with sec cat IN and larger pipe = high gain in hp slightly dependant on muffler
cat back with out sec cat and larger pipe= highest gains possible from a cat back system but not road legal.
so according to the above... the onyl way any axle back or cat back is worth it is if it increases the pipe diameter, if it does not all your doing is payign for a new muffler.
axle back with larger pipe= a small gain in hp also depending on muffler
cat back with sec cat in stock pipe size= pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
cat back without sec cat and stock pipe size= small gain in hp also dependant on muffler
cat back with sec cat IN and larger pipe = high gain in hp slightly dependant on muffler
cat back with out sec cat and larger pipe= highest gains possible from a cat back system but not road legal.
so according to the above... the onyl way any axle back or cat back is worth it is if it increases the pipe diameter, if it does not all your doing is payign for a new muffler.
ALSO, you can get a exhaust set up for even under 300.
all you have to do is go to a shop that does pressure or mandrel bent pipes (never evr ever get crushed bent) buy a magnaflow muffler (or your choice borla, greddy) and tell them to run (insert larger diamter size pipe here) from the sec cat to the muffler.
and now you have a CUSTOM catback that is street legal that will out perform any axle back and any catback that didnt increase the pipe size. it will take most shops 1-2 hours to complete and in my area is under $250 and %100 smog legal in every way.
all you have to do is go to a shop that does pressure or mandrel bent pipes (never evr ever get crushed bent) buy a magnaflow muffler (or your choice borla, greddy) and tell them to run (insert larger diamter size pipe here) from the sec cat to the muffler.
and now you have a CUSTOM catback that is street legal that will out perform any axle back and any catback that didnt increase the pipe size. it will take most shops 1-2 hours to complete and in my area is under $250 and %100 smog legal in every way.
1) price will depend upon where you are
2) what you describe is an axle back with a extra bit longer larger diameter pipe that goes to the secondary cat instead of just the axle
3)no what you describe SHOULD not out perform a cat back exhaust, because if you had read the previous posts then you would have realized what is being described removes the secondary cat, which BY YOUR OWN DESCRIPTION are the "highest gains possible from a cat back system"
i never really understood people buying pre-made catbacks unless it only foro bragging rights to say you have a (x) brand cat back. personally id rather brag about havign a CUSTOM (x)brand catback and that i got it for under 300 dollars
hahaaha funny dude. dont jump to cocky conclusions. i understood that your system bypassed the sec cat and that it wasnt smog legal. so before you try "proving someone wrong" again you should read their posts carefully.
you also say that leaving the sec cat and doing a cat back wont improve anything... this is only the case if you kept the stock pipe diameter, which again would be pointless. however if you ARE increasing the pipe size than a cat back even with the cat still in, WILL improve performance over stock as long as the new system is larger diameter... i may be misunderstanding what yrou sayign and if so then excuse my misunderstanding.
^ was not reffering to your system. i was reffering to yoru statement about a cat back system that leaves the sec cat in wont give any more performance over stock. but you obviously were so set on tryign to prove me wrong you mis understood and thought i was reffering to the system that you sell.
^ was not reffering to your system. i was reffering to yoru statement about a cat back system that leaves the sec cat in wont give any more performance over stock. but you obviously were so set on tryign to prove me wrong you mis understood and thought i was reffering to the system that you sell.
my entire post WAS ASKING more specifics on how it was set up.
AND if your system is actually connected to the main thermal reactor which is also the header, i think a more accurate name imo is header-back exhaust.
what is te stock size pipe on the tc? you use 2.25... how much of an increase is that?
axle back with same size pipe = pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
axle back with larger pipe= a small gain in hp also depending on muffler
cat back with sec cat in stock pipe size= pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
cat back without sec cat and stock pipe size= small gain in hp also dependant on muffler possible stylis catback
cat back with sec cat IN and larger pipe = high gain in hp slightly dependant on muffler gives performance and is smog legal %100
cat back with out sec cat and larger pipe= highest gains possible from a cat back system but not road legal. possible stylis system
again i completely understood that your system gets rid of the sec cat. i merely typed up a comparison of differnt types of exhaust that are possible with the tc and what a ballpark estimate on types of gains for each. i did that because i actually wanted you to tell me more specifics.
axle back with larger pipe= a small gain in hp also depending on muffler
cat back with sec cat in stock pipe size= pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
cat back without sec cat and stock pipe size= small gain in hp also dependant on muffler possible stylis catback
cat back with sec cat IN and larger pipe = high gain in hp slightly dependant on muffler gives performance and is smog legal %100
cat back with out sec cat and larger pipe= highest gains possible from a cat back system but not road legal. possible stylis system
again i completely understood that your system gets rid of the sec cat. i merely typed up a comparison of differnt types of exhaust that are possible with the tc and what a ballpark estimate on types of gains for each. i did that because i actually wanted you to tell me more specifics.
if you didnt read every word of this post stylis then re-read now, i dontwant to have to take 2 posts to explain somethign you misunderstood in the first one again.
i understand you may feel a little defensive because it may seem liek im tryign to take away from yoru bussiness, but im just trying to understand the full specs of yoru system and so other people know the options.
if smog isnt an issue and you told me you increased pipe size than yoru system sounds pretty good man. you were quite rude when i was justign tryign to get more info man. and i was merely stating that your statement about a cat back with the sec cat still in wouldnt give gains was incorrect.
try not to be childish this time. thanx im not attacking you just want more info
09-21-2004, 08:56 PM
#47
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 424
that post was result of a request...
Slide:
yes I do excercise, 5 miles a day every day on my long board to and from the trainstation and back to my house...
yes I do work.. I work at Wired Magazine (as a research director) here in the city, if you had looked at my sig you'd see that
I know it isn't Jesus or Buddha, but I get tired of having to repeat these things to people who don't bother to search or learn a bit before they go on and post what becomes difficult.
I see you've been on for 4 months or so, maybe lurked for a bit longer so hopefully you realize where the repetitiveness can get old.
One other thing, remember there are people behind these screen names. I'm usually not a hardass or a pain in the ___ or any sort of ___ for that matter, I'm just a normal person like you. Just happened a button was pushed so i felt it was fine to set aside the 10 minutes it took to write that...
kaeon:
as for deleting the thread, that's the mod's prerogative, but mods have to answer to other mods and that post was the result of a mod's request
as for the post, yeah it was a bit excessive but after the last experience NorCal had we like to err a bit on excessive to make sure the point is clearly received
I don't usually post, let alone post extensive diatribes like that especially twice in same damn thread, but again it was requested. I'm a mathematician by education, so logical arguments are something I enjoy
Slide:
yes I do excercise, 5 miles a day every day on my long board to and from the trainstation and back to my house...
yes I do work.. I work at Wired Magazine (as a research director) here in the city, if you had looked at my sig you'd see that
I know it isn't Jesus or Buddha, but I get tired of having to repeat these things to people who don't bother to search or learn a bit before they go on and post what becomes difficult.
I see you've been on for 4 months or so, maybe lurked for a bit longer so hopefully you realize where the repetitiveness can get old.
One other thing, remember there are people behind these screen names. I'm usually not a hardass or a pain in the ___ or any sort of ___ for that matter, I'm just a normal person like you. Just happened a button was pushed so i felt it was fine to set aside the 10 minutes it took to write that...
kaeon:
as for deleting the thread, that's the mod's prerogative, but mods have to answer to other mods and that post was the result of a mod's request
as for the post, yeah it was a bit excessive but after the last experience NorCal had we like to err a bit on excessive to make sure the point is clearly received
I don't usually post, let alone post extensive diatribes like that especially twice in same damn thread, but again it was requested. I'm a mathematician by education, so logical arguments are something I enjoy
09-22-2004, 12:16 AM
#48
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a few of the quotes you gave sound a lil differnt when taking out of context.
ill just try and explain my self a little more. i went through the post before my original post and must have overlooked the pipe size as i did not see it, pretty human mistake. so i posted and asked what it was. at the time of the post i was still trying to figure out what the extent of his system was. you know trying to gain knowledge. so i asked some questions i wanted to know posted a list of types of exhaust system so that when i got an answer it could fall into a space on the list.
let me defend myself a little as there are still somethigns i obviously am not getting across correctly
if it is the same size as stock what would be the point? not changing the pipe size will yield the same results as only switching the muffler out.
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it isn't, and if you had read the post you would have understood this, so this question is moot
i was pretty much just discussing the possibilites here as i had not gotten the information about the system yet/ or overlooked it in the thread. i was merely stating that if the pipe size wasnt being changed there wouldnt be much of a point.
if it is larger, how can you say that a xle back wont yield much over a cat back? there would be more pipe that is of larger diameter meaning slightly better air flow.
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this just didn't make any sense... he never said that the axle back would yield much over the cat back, he said the opposite. The axle back would produce little gains over stock and definitely no gains over a cat back exhaust modification
i was stating that if a cat back system was put on without changing the pipe size and took out the sec cat, that a axle back system that did change the pipe size would perform better or at least the same. im just typing out my thoughts as i have not gotten the information yet/ or overlooked it in the posts
you also say that leaving the sec cat and doing a cat back wont improve anything... this is only the case if you kept the stock pipe diameter, which again would be pointless. however if you ARE increasing the pipe size than a cat back even with the cat still in, WILL improve performance over stock as long as the new system is larger diameter... i may be misunderstanding what yrou sayign and if so then excuse my misunderstanding.
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yes you did misunderstand... either that or you didn't bother to read the previous posts, in either case this is again moot
he said that a cat back system that left the sec cat in place WOULDNT give any gains over stock. i am stating that this is untrue. you can run 2.25 pipe from main cat to sec cat>sec cat>2.25 from sec cat to muffler= more than 1HP increase and emmissions legal AM I RIGHT?
i never really understood people buying pre-made catbacks unless it only foro bragging rights to say you have a (x) brand cat back. personally id rather brag about havign a CUSTOM (x)brand catback and that i got it for under 300 dollars
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what you are describing is a "pre-made catback" except you are purchasing it from a local shop... :sigh: Gabe does the same damn thing in his shop with a longer piece of pipe and removed secondary cat... He doesn't order these out of a catalog and ship them out, he buys the parts and makes them in his shop. So in essence a "custom" catback
your CORRECT i know that. ANY CAT BACK SYSTEM you buy can be considered a custom cat back. what i meant was if you went into a exhaust shop you cant tell them i want a premade cat back because then theyd be tryign to order somethign out of a catalog. you would walk in and say you want a custom cat back and state what muffler and size pipe and type of bends you want. so while you MAY consider ANY cat back a custom cat back the above is what i was refferring to.
what is te stock size pipe on the tc? you use 2.25... how much of an increase is that?
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wow, your first legitimate question... and I'll answer... stock tC pipe size is 2.125 inches... so you're going up about 1/4 an inch w/ Gabe's system... but from what we've seen so far is as large as anyone would want to go short of forced induction
thanx for the answer. dont get defensive this is just a question, do you or others have dynos that show that 2.25 is optimal? and comapring them to other diameters?
it was aimed at his direction. i apparently overlooked some specs that had already been posted-accident- and again i typed the list of possible exhaust set up so that wheni got more info on what type his was it could fall into one of those for reference. Nothign wrong with that.
i have never doubted his knowledge trustworthyness or abilities. i merely was inquiring for more info and tryign to understand exactly what he was offering as i had apparently overlooked some valuable stats in the thread.
the only other time me and stylis exchanged thoughts was last tiem we talked about exhaust... and i am new to imports and the tC so i did not know the header had an integrated cat. which after soem tussling we worked out and i learned something. i have quite a bit of experience with GM 2.2 and 2.4l motors. so i DO know what im talkign about just not always about the tC since im new to this car and imports in general. but again, i do have quite a bit of experience with gm 2.2 and 2.4l motors and am tryign to learn as quickly as possible the unique differences between imports and doms. both of your reactions are pretty uncalled for when i am just tryign to further my knowledge and inquire specifics about stylis system. excuse me for overlooking some stats that had already been posted it was a mistake i must have skipped a few posts while reading.
i hope this clears up any misunderstanding any of us may have with eachother
ill just try and explain my self a little more. i went through the post before my original post and must have overlooked the pipe size as i did not see it, pretty human mistake. so i posted and asked what it was. at the time of the post i was still trying to figure out what the extent of his system was. you know trying to gain knowledge. so i asked some questions i wanted to know posted a list of types of exhaust system so that when i got an answer it could fall into a space on the list.
let me defend myself a little as there are still somethigns i obviously am not getting across correctly
if it is the same size as stock what would be the point? not changing the pipe size will yield the same results as only switching the muffler out.
------------------------------
it isn't, and if you had read the post you would have understood this, so this question is moot
if it is larger, how can you say that a xle back wont yield much over a cat back? there would be more pipe that is of larger diameter meaning slightly better air flow.
-------------------------
this just didn't make any sense... he never said that the axle back would yield much over the cat back, he said the opposite. The axle back would produce little gains over stock and definitely no gains over a cat back exhaust modification
you also say that leaving the sec cat and doing a cat back wont improve anything... this is only the case if you kept the stock pipe diameter, which again would be pointless. however if you ARE increasing the pipe size than a cat back even with the cat still in, WILL improve performance over stock as long as the new system is larger diameter... i may be misunderstanding what yrou sayign and if so then excuse my misunderstanding.
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yes you did misunderstand... either that or you didn't bother to read the previous posts, in either case this is again moot
i never really understood people buying pre-made catbacks unless it only foro bragging rights to say you have a (x) brand cat back. personally id rather brag about havign a CUSTOM (x)brand catback and that i got it for under 300 dollars
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what you are describing is a "pre-made catback" except you are purchasing it from a local shop... :sigh: Gabe does the same damn thing in his shop with a longer piece of pipe and removed secondary cat... He doesn't order these out of a catalog and ship them out, he buys the parts and makes them in his shop. So in essence a "custom" catback
what is te stock size pipe on the tc? you use 2.25... how much of an increase is that?
-----------------
wow, your first legitimate question... and I'll answer... stock tC pipe size is 2.125 inches... so you're going up about 1/4 an inch w/ Gabe's system... but from what we've seen so far is as large as anyone would want to go short of forced induction
axle back with same size pipe = pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
axle back with larger pipe= a small gain in hp also depending on muffler
cat back with sec cat in stock pipe size= pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
cat back without sec cat and stock pipe size= small gain in hp also dependant on muffler possible stylis catback
cat back with sec cat IN and larger pipe = high gain in hp slightly dependant on muffler gives performance and is smog legal %100
cat back with out sec cat and larger pipe= highest gains possible from a cat back system but not road legal. possible stylis system
again i completely understood that your system gets rid of the sec cat. i merely typed up a comparison of differnt types of exhaust that are possible with the tc and what a ballpark estimate on types of gains for each. i did that because i actually wanted you to tell me more specifics.
considering you went off on a random "informative" tangent it seemed as if no you didn't know what his system was composed of, since the whole post seemed aimed in his direction
axle back with larger pipe= a small gain in hp also depending on muffler
cat back with sec cat in stock pipe size= pretty close to 0hp depending on muffler
cat back without sec cat and stock pipe size= small gain in hp also dependant on muffler possible stylis catback
cat back with sec cat IN and larger pipe = high gain in hp slightly dependant on muffler gives performance and is smog legal %100
cat back with out sec cat and larger pipe= highest gains possible from a cat back system but not road legal. possible stylis system
again i completely understood that your system gets rid of the sec cat. i merely typed up a comparison of differnt types of exhaust that are possible with the tc and what a ballpark estimate on types of gains for each. i did that because i actually wanted you to tell me more specifics.
considering you went off on a random "informative" tangent it seemed as if no you didn't know what his system was composed of, since the whole post seemed aimed in his direction
i understand you may feel a little defensive because it may seem liek im tryign to take away from yoru bussiness, but im just trying to understand the full specs of yoru system and so other people know the options.
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he felt defensive because he doesn't have a particularly high regard for your thoughts, and quite frankly I am starting to agree with him... he doesn't worry about losing system sales, the gear stands on its own grounds and merits. Plenty of satisfied customers will attest to that here and across the country. These are people who have gone from becoming customers to becoming friends of his because they realize he is a person they can trust, he comes front and forward with what he thinks and participates heavily here in the forums both as a participant and a moderator
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he felt defensive because he doesn't have a particularly high regard for your thoughts, and quite frankly I am starting to agree with him... he doesn't worry about losing system sales, the gear stands on its own grounds and merits. Plenty of satisfied customers will attest to that here and across the country. These are people who have gone from becoming customers to becoming friends of his because they realize he is a person they can trust, he comes front and forward with what he thinks and participates heavily here in the forums both as a participant and a moderator
the only other time me and stylis exchanged thoughts was last tiem we talked about exhaust... and i am new to imports and the tC so i did not know the header had an integrated cat. which after soem tussling we worked out and i learned something. i have quite a bit of experience with GM 2.2 and 2.4l motors. so i DO know what im talkign about just not always about the tC since im new to this car and imports in general. but again, i do have quite a bit of experience with gm 2.2 and 2.4l motors and am tryign to learn as quickly as possible the unique differences between imports and doms. both of your reactions are pretty uncalled for when i am just tryign to further my knowledge and inquire specifics about stylis system. excuse me for overlooking some stats that had already been posted it was a mistake i must have skipped a few posts while reading.
i hope this clears up any misunderstanding any of us may have with eachother
09-22-2004, 12:47 AM
#49
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2200fire because you have taken this topic off of its course, moderators now have to consider delelting this topic/your posts because of the drama caused by you. All you had to do was read the topic correctly in the first place. :?
Also, all you had to do was answer the topic question, what is better Magna flow or TRD. How hard was that? Now you have taken us to here, which is no where. I hope there are no other topics with you taking them to no where.
Also, all you had to do was answer the topic question, what is better Magna flow or TRD. How hard was that? Now you have taken us to here, which is no where. I hope there are no other topics with you taking them to no where.
09-22-2004, 04:20 AM
#50
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Damn If I knew this was gonna turn into a big ole' fight I wouldnt have made this thread..I just wanted 2 know peoples opinions on the both exhaust systems..
But it doesnt matter, I've talked 2 Stylis enuf and his customers I am positive that I will like it alot better than if I wouldve gotten a TRD Axle-Back. :D
I really could care less if it isnt street legal, I live in OK we dont have state inspections here..
Plus all this is Custom, Stylis doesnt buy this ____ from another company..He makes this stuff..Thanks Stylis.
So All in All, Im pumped for this new and improved Exhuast System..Check back this weekend and I will post up pics!!
Thanks alot Stylis, Cant wait for your Exhuast!
SOON 2 BE THE FIRST SCION TC MAGNAFLOW HEADER-BACK OWNER IN OK!!
HEHE HEADER-BACK..SOUNDS BETTER?
But it doesnt matter, I've talked 2 Stylis enuf and his customers I am positive that I will like it alot better than if I wouldve gotten a TRD Axle-Back. :D
I really could care less if it isnt street legal, I live in OK we dont have state inspections here..
Plus all this is Custom, Stylis doesnt buy this ____ from another company..He makes this stuff..Thanks Stylis.
So All in All, Im pumped for this new and improved Exhuast System..Check back this weekend and I will post up pics!!
Thanks alot Stylis, Cant wait for your Exhuast!
SOON 2 BE THE FIRST SCION TC MAGNAFLOW HEADER-BACK OWNER IN OK!!
HEHE HEADER-BACK..SOUNDS BETTER?
09-22-2004, 04:56 AM
#51
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sweet!
i did answer which one i liked, i chose magnaflo obviously cause thats the system i have on my gm 2.2l right now.
and i also posted a video of the exhaust on my car to help illustrate why i like magnaflow.
sounds like stylis system is pretty good :D
i did answer which one i liked, i chose magnaflo obviously cause thats the system i have on my gm 2.2l right now.
and i also posted a video of the exhaust on my car to help illustrate why i like magnaflow.
sounds like stylis system is pretty good :D
09-22-2004, 08:15 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by 2200fire
sweet!
i did answer which one i liked, i chose magnaflo obviously cause thats the system i have on my gm 2.2l right now.
and i also posted a video of the exhaust on my car to help illustrate why i like magnaflow.
sounds like stylis system is pretty good :D
i did answer which one i liked, i chose magnaflo obviously cause thats the system i have on my gm 2.2l right now.
and i also posted a video of the exhaust on my car to help illustrate why i like magnaflow.
sounds like stylis system is pretty good :D
What kinda car is that? Looks like a Saturn.
Thanks man!
09-22-2004, 04:32 PM
#53
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its a full cat catback.
its a pontiac sunfire. mandrel bent 2.25 pipe from the cat to the magnaflow SS muffler.
the shop i went to did it in about 1.5 hours. price would have been $200 but the shop was actualyl closed when i went up to talk to the owner and i guess he didnt want to lose bussiness so he ended up doingit all for $75 and i didnt get my number one choice on muffler it was all he had, so that was also another reason for the markdown :D
i have not heard a magnaflow system on a tC yet, but every car ive heard with a magnaflow set up correctly sounded awesome.
id go magnaflow on the tC:D
its a pontiac sunfire. mandrel bent 2.25 pipe from the cat to the magnaflow SS muffler.
the shop i went to did it in about 1.5 hours. price would have been $200 but the shop was actualyl closed when i went up to talk to the owner and i guess he didnt want to lose bussiness so he ended up doingit all for $75 and i didnt get my number one choice on muffler it was all he had, so that was also another reason for the markdown :D
i have not heard a magnaflow system on a tC yet, but every car ive heard with a magnaflow set up correctly sounded awesome.
id go magnaflow on the tC:D
09-30-2004, 07:36 PM
#54
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Just got my NEW MagnaFlow Catback in!! Go here 2 check out the pics!!
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...=308675#308675
Lemme know what U think of the new system!
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...=308675#308675
Lemme know what U think of the new system!
09-30-2004, 07:36 PM
#55
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Just got my NEW MagnaFlow Catback in!! Go here 2 check out the pics!!
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...=308675#308675
Lemme know what U think of the new system!
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...=308675#308675
Lemme know what U think of the new system!
11-02-2004, 01:42 AM
#56
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I got to drive a tC that was equipped w/ an Injen intake and exhaust. It was really nice and made me wish I had a tC. I conducted the dB reading on it also, and the loudest at 4,600 rpm was 86 dB.
tC owners will now be reaping the benefits of aftermarket companies.
tC owners will now be reaping the benefits of aftermarket companies.
11-02-2004, 04:47 PM
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"I conducted the dB reading on it also, and the loudest at 4,600 rpm was 86 dB.
tC owners will now be reaping the benefits of aftermarket companies."
There's no "benefit" to an intake and exhaust if it's 86db. That's significantly louder than stock. By far.
tC owners will now be reaping the benefits of aftermarket companies."
There's no "benefit" to an intake and exhaust if it's 86db. That's significantly louder than stock. By far.
11-02-2004, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by aarontrini85
also where can you find the injen stuff it wasnt on there page but they do have a nice looking tc on there just no parts for us