sciontc_mich

here's a novel thought...

hmm... GET A LAWYER.. plain and simple.. and i think you should tell us which dealer it is that did this.. get the word out.. why keep it to yourself and complain.. TELL US WHO THE DEALER IS!! we'll make sure no scions are bought there anymore..

DibujoB

THEY did make the mistake....THEY ARE INCOMPETENT....THEY told the customer inaccurate data...that he qualifies for the rebate. There's no point in argument, we agree on this.

But, THEY WERE WRONG. He doesn't qualify....the rebate comes from TFS, not the dealership. TFS states plainly in black and white that if you don't finance with Toyota you don't get the rebate.

Morally, should the dealership pay the $400 since they screwed up? Yes, if it was up to me I say absolutely.

Legally, does he owe $400?....unfortunately so (at least if it was in california). The dealership, or I should say the bank, has every legal right to repo the vehicle...they'd be _______s to do it, but legally they can. The signed contract he has is null and void because it includes a $400 rebate, and I'm sure somewhere on there is a disclaimer saying something along the lines of "rebate available under certain stiplutions." Stipulations which he does not meet.

I'm by no means suggesting he walk up to them with a check in his hand (besides, it's the bank, not the dealership who is owed the money). What I would do if I was him would approach them and get them to pay it, or at least get them to split the cost. He has everything to gain by trying.

What's going to happen if he listens to hot head anti-dealership people who have no idea what they're talking about, and just ignores the problem and hopes it will go away? He's going to wake up one morning and the car will be gone. I'd truly hate to see that happen to anyone.

I want to make it perfectly clear though that I am not trying to defend or justify the dealership in question. As stupid as it was, however, I do think they made an honest mistake and weren't trying to rip off the customer. They have nothing to gain by telling him he's eligable for a rebate and then snaking it from him. They didn't read the fine print from TFS, or had a brain fart and forgot about it, or maybe it was a full moon....whatever the reason why stupid things happen. I know I've made mistakes, I'm sure everyone else on the planet has too.

I also want to say that I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone or start any problems. I just want to get the facts out there to help this guy out.

If you can afford it or know anyone, I would definately suggest getting a lawyer, or at least a consultation. It definately couldn't hurt. If our roles were reversed, I'd be fighting it tooth and nail. I wish you best of luck, and please let us know how it turns out.

Black_Cherry_xA

Trogdor,

I think you are missing one valuable part of the puzzle. They made illegal threats to reposses the car to a third party individual not stated in the contract. Someone already pointed out the law.

Not only that, but,, as a dealer, if you were to call me and say that, and I said, "ok, I'll just bring it back, and you can fully refund my money." What would you do then? Obviously the loss in value of the used vehicle will cost you more then $400 right?

If the answer is yes, then I think the person who started this thread should just play hardball and not pay up.

DibujoB

Cliffy summed it up better than I've been able to. Reread his posts, especially the 2nd one very very carefully.

On the buyers contract the rebate is listed as part of the down payment. Because the buyer didn't finance through Toyota this money was never paid by TFS, but it's still listed on the contract as $400 owed to the bank.

If you take it to court the judge is going to see that the $400 is missing....you can say the dealership was going to give you a rebate, but all the dealership has to do is show that you didn't finance through Toyota and you're done.

That dealership screwed up, royally sucks, and it's a crappy situation it's left you in but unfortunately they do have the right to take the car back and you cannot ignore them.

I'm not saying to bend over and give them the money without a fight, but be smart about it because they do have the upper hand.

I'd also take cliffy's advice and call Scion to start a file with them. They really do care about their customers and may be able to help sort this out.

sciontc_mich

again.. time to get a lawyer.. and to contact scion.. i have deaj vu.. didn't i say that before.. lol

the1999person

maybe he was originally financing with TFS.... the paperwork was allready finished and waiting on the car. then at the last minute when it was time to pick up the car he came in with a check from his bank for the balance...?

i agree, the dealership screwed up (the finance manager). also the salesperson shouldn't act like such an ___ either, but i'm sure the finance manager and the sales managers and maybe even the general manager are riding his ___ about this and threating him with the idea of not being paid his commision until the customer pays up the $400.

as for whats going on....? can we get an update...?

cliffy1

I've kinda been wondering about that. Was there any point that the dealership was under the impression that he was financing through them? I've had that happen to me. I worked with a customer for more than a week, all the while discussing the rate and payment, which included the rebate. On the day they came in to take delivery, they handed me a check from thier credit union. It was an uncomfortable discussion, but the question of outside financing never came up prior to that.

None of us knows the full story here because we were not there. It is possible that there was a combination of bad communication between the customer and the dealership and between different folks within the dealership. It is also possible that they lied or misled the customer in the first place as well. That theory doesn't make much sense to me as this is a pretty easy car to sell to anybody and there just isn't a need to trick people into buying it. It is possible though.

Even if this was an innocent mistake, that doesn't justify their bahavior since the error was discovered. I still think they are a-holes, even if it was just human error.

DibujoB

agreed.

jaeSun

well, this is what i would do check ALL your paperwork. make sure everything is how it should be. does it say who is financing the car (is it the bank, or TFS), etc.

paperwork is practically EVERYTHING. i was working at a dealer once. and a guy was buying a used car. obviously, the guy buying the car knows how many miles are on the car. (what buyer doesnt check the miles on a used car?). and the car had like 20K miles on it. well, he bought the car. he goes home, and notices on the paperwork that it says that the car only has 25 miles. the salesman must have wrote down the wrong mileage, or was too lazy to check, so wrote in a bogus number thinking its not a big deal. well, a couple days later, the GM of the whole dealership was on the phone with the guy's lawyer. he would have voided the whole transaction, but problem is, the car he traded in was already sold the next day. in the end, he got the car he bought free and part of the profit that they made on his tradein. the GM was ____ED.

after the paperwork is fine, id go to the dealership and speak to the GM, or a high up manager. it is their mistake that they falsely sold you the car, and then to come and ask you for the money back. as someone was saying earlier, they do not own the car, the bank does. they CANNOT legally come and tow your car away. I WOULD DEFINATELY let your financing bank know about the situation, as they might be able to shed some light also.

id just tell the GM, that they can either take the hit, and stop harassing you, or they can refund you 100% of the money that was put into the car, so that the bank can be paid off, and you get your money back. do not take any hits for the miles put on the car, etc etc.

if they threaten you in any way, just calmy let them know that you are prepared to get a lawyer if they continue on.

imo, it would be in your best interest to return the car and get all of your money back. it is not worth even buying from them. if you like the car alot, just go to another dealer. or, another car itself.

thats what i would do.

qualityscion

I have read all the post on this subject. I am a little disappointed on generalization of salesperson bashing going on here, but I also understand alot of this bashing is caused by the people having bad experiences in the past. The dealership in question really made a $400 mistake that my personal opinion should live with their mistake, as a reminder not to make it again. My advise is one talk to a lawyer and 2 call scion and tell them the situation. I got into Scion to get away from the games and to truly enjoy dealing with customers and helping them design their car the way they want them, be it accessories from the dealership or from some other vendor that I can hook them up with to get what they want. I think that every Scion salesperson needs to know everything about their cars, rebates available, how to qualify for them, what different things do when it comes to accessories, etc. If any of this is left out they are doing a grave disservice to their customers and the dealership. Breakerz the best solution is the one that they are willing to cover the $400 and install your accessories without anymore grief. But what the dealership does is up to them, I will guarantee that they will lose alot of sale just because of not fixing the problem in an honarable manner.

Lloyd