Diagnosing the tC's Starting Problem
#41
i have a 06BSOP tC , it has done it since day one! i use BP 93octane all the time its never had the lesser stuff but it still every now and again does it i even turn off the radio ac act... and it still does it??? what ive been told is its not the gas... its our delivery system after use and the car sits 5 hours it cleans itself the fuel lines and evaporates stuff?! which is cool but is the reason for the every now and then hesitated start...... (thats what ive been told and it makes since read your owners manual)
#42
how is everyone starting their car? waiting for the needles to finish their "sweep" or just starting right away?
my old civic (mid-90's) wouldn't start right away, had to wait for the fuel pump to pressurize. You could even hear it working, once that click on the civic stopped, then it would start fine. Try to start it before then, would crank and crank like it had no gas.
I'm wondering if people turn the key to the run position (all lights on in the instrument cluster) wait for the needle to sweep, then try and start it.. still hesistate even then?
my old civic (mid-90's) wouldn't start right away, had to wait for the fuel pump to pressurize. You could even hear it working, once that click on the civic stopped, then it would start fine. Try to start it before then, would crank and crank like it had no gas.
I'm wondering if people turn the key to the run position (all lights on in the instrument cluster) wait for the needle to sweep, then try and start it.. still hesistate even then?
#43
First of all, if you have trouble starting (engine turns over, but hesistates to ignite), and is using premium gas, go with a lower octane gas! The higher the octane rating, the harder it is to ignite because of the higher concentration of benzine.
Secondly, our cars are designed for regular gas, and using the premium gas over regular won't give you anything. You would probably have better results by switching between brands of gas for better additives.
Secondly, our cars are designed for regular gas, and using the premium gas over regular won't give you anything. You would probably have better results by switching between brands of gas for better additives.
#44
Originally Posted by SSQ
First of all, if you have trouble starting (engine turns over, but hesistates to ignite), and is using premium gas, go with a lower octane gas! The higher the octane rating, the harder it is to ignite because of the higher concentration of benzine.
Secondly, our cars are designed for regular gas, and using the premium gas over regular won't give you anything. You would probably have better results by switching between brands of gas for better additives.
Secondly, our cars are designed for regular gas, and using the premium gas over regular won't give you anything. You would probably have better results by switching between brands of gas for better additives.
#45
I am sorry, english is my NOT my first language, but infact, 4th, and so if I misused it, please excuse me. I did not target you on my post and it has been my understanding of the nature of octane/benzne on gasoline.
And no, if you read, and actually knows how to read, you would see test octane of 91 and recommended 87. You are right about helping narrowing the suspected cause of the issue, however, you did not take the nuissance factors of mods, types of gas presented in the region, and the additives used in the region. So no, you did not really help rule out octane level. Because I and a few other scion tC owners in my area has determined it was gas additives and octane ratings that caused it, for us.
And no, the vacume process does NOT cause the fuel lines to be drained of fuel upon startup. I was NOT trying to be arrogant in my previous post. Sorry for your ignorance. If you actually know your own facts and stop relying on "the mechanic says", you won't have to be so defensive. It' human nature, I don't blame you.
And no, if you read, and actually knows how to read, you would see test octane of 91 and recommended 87. You are right about helping narrowing the suspected cause of the issue, however, you did not take the nuissance factors of mods, types of gas presented in the region, and the additives used in the region. So no, you did not really help rule out octane level. Because I and a few other scion tC owners in my area has determined it was gas additives and octane ratings that caused it, for us.
And no, the vacume process does NOT cause the fuel lines to be drained of fuel upon startup. I was NOT trying to be arrogant in my previous post. Sorry for your ignorance. If you actually know your own facts and stop relying on "the mechanic says", you won't have to be so defensive. It' human nature, I don't blame you.
#47
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First of all, last I checked, my manual recommends 87. I dunno if they have different versions of that thing floating around or not...
Second of all, I never knew there was any tonality of arrogance associated with using, "first of all." I just thought of it as a way to order your points and/or arguments. Are people getting touchy all of the sudden? it's not like he came out calling people names (at least not in the first post). I mean c'mon... relax guy! Have a coke and a smile...
Second of all, I never knew there was any tonality of arrogance associated with using, "first of all." I just thought of it as a way to order your points and/or arguments. Are people getting touchy all of the sudden? it's not like he came out calling people names (at least not in the first post). I mean c'mon... relax guy! Have a coke and a smile...
#49
maybe its just the battery. Perhaps it has trouble holding a charge after a while... and any battery will have more trouble in the cold
And also, I'm not sure if I'm right on this (someone correct me if I'm not), but I suspect that the colder it gets, the more difficult it is to start an ICE.
And also, I'm not sure if I'm right on this (someone correct me if I'm not), but I suspect that the colder it gets, the more difficult it is to start an ICE.
#50
I have an '06, and I lived in Massachusetts, and I can tell you that it got pretty damn cold in the winter...but I didn't have any starting issues. Honestly, the car should start easiest on cold (but not Arctic cold) days, because colder air is denser, and has more oxygen molecules. More oxygen = better combustion. I rarely, if ever, use 93 octane, as the recommended fuel in my owner’s manual is 87.The only time I ever had a starting problem was if the clutch was fully engaged. I have mine 5 speed on a remote starter, and that car never failed to start when I used it, even on the coldest of winter days. Oh, and I have a BA degree in English, and the phrase "first of all" does not have a positive or negative connotation. Unless the speaker delivers it like a Valley Girl, dripping with disdain.
#51
Originally Posted by tC_vixen
Yea, BP is also very good. If its not Shell I hit the BP. There both next to me. Theres an Exxon too but Exxon is just way too expensive.
#52
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Originally Posted by tjbartjr
I have an '06, and I lived in Massachusetts, and I can tell you that it got pretty damn cold in the winter...but I didn't have any starting issues. Honestly, the car should start easiest on cold (but not Arctic cold) days, because colder air is denser, and has more oxygen molecules. More oxygen = better combustion. I rarely, if ever, use 93 octane, as the recommended fuel in my owner's manual is 87.The only time I ever had a starting problem was if the clutch was fully engaged. I have mine 5 speed on a remote starter, and that car never failed to start when I used it, even on the coldest of winter days. Oh, and I have a BA degree in English, and the phrase "first of all" does not have a positive or negative connotation. Unless the speaker delivers it like a Valley Girl, dripping with disdain.
#53
Originally Posted by djct_watt
First of all, last I checked, my manual recommends 87. I dunno if they have different versions of that thing floating around or not...
Second of all, I never knew there was any tonality of arrogance associated with using, "first of all." I just thought of it as a way to order your points and/or arguments. Are people getting touchy all of the sudden? it's not like he came out calling people names (at least not in the first post). I mean c'mon... relax guy! Have a coke and a smile...
Second of all, I never knew there was any tonality of arrogance associated with using, "first of all." I just thought of it as a way to order your points and/or arguments. Are people getting touchy all of the sudden? it's not like he came out calling people names (at least not in the first post). I mean c'mon... relax guy! Have a coke and a smile...
My point is, if you have always been using the premium gas and had problem starting, I seriously recommend for you to try using 87 octane from maybe 76. That might solve your problem. I got a tank of Cheveron last week (havn't used it in the long time), and it hesistated to start again. Needless to say, I am running on 76 again.
Me and 2 other tC owners in my area (just 2 hours south of the starter) did solve the problem with our cars hesitating to start by using 87 octane gas from stations cheaper than cheveron like 76, Arco, and Town Pump. 1 tank of cheap gas won't hurt even if it doesn't solve the issue.
#54
I always been using 87 Octane from Chevron and Tried ARCO...I still have a weak start once in a while on a cool day etc....
Does any body here think it could a simple fix as in just getting FATTER gauge wire for the grounding wires???
Does any body here think it could a simple fix as in just getting FATTER gauge wire for the grounding wires???
#56
I garage my car since day 1 I had it and my garage is within room temperature, regardless of the temperature outside. It could be the battery. But like I said, I want to start diagonsing the problem the cheapest way first, rather than spending upgrades for a new battery or a starter, and then finding out it had nothing to do with that. And yes, I even tried to wait 10 seconds after all the accessories load up and the needle does its thing.
After my tank is drained currently with Chevron, I'll move to Shell V-Power which has a lot more cleaning addictives in it and claims on their website to elimiate the start-up hesistation. If that doesn't work, I'll move away from assuming that the type of gas is the problem and start focusing somewhere else.
After my tank is drained currently with Chevron, I'll move to Shell V-Power which has a lot more cleaning addictives in it and claims on their website to elimiate the start-up hesistation. If that doesn't work, I'll move away from assuming that the type of gas is the problem and start focusing somewhere else.
#57
Well, not really, I wouldn't say the gas pump caused all of it although it was for a few of us. There are a lot of other factors out there that might cause it for other people.
But thanks Jehoo.
7thgear, give 87 octane from shell or 76 a shot, it might work.
For the battery, you can take it to Les Schwab and they can test it for you. They are usually pretty honest about it too.
But thanks Jehoo.
7thgear, give 87 octane from shell or 76 a shot, it might work.
For the battery, you can take it to Les Schwab and they can test it for you. They are usually pretty honest about it too.
#58
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Well everyone here is nice and calm, except for one post... Which will stay nameless...
Quote taken from motoroilworld.com
http://www.motoroilworld.com/choosing_an_oil.html
-30 is thicker than -20. So switching oils actually would make a difference. And that's a fact. Will it solve the problem? I dunno... I've never had a starting problem.
The meaning of flowViscosity is a measure of the oil's ability to flow at a given temperature, which indicates how thick the oil film will be on metal parts. Obviously it flows more slowly and forms a thicker film when it's cold; a thinner film is formed when it's hot. Because automotive engines operate over a very wide temperature range, they use multi-viscosity oil that doesn't get quite as thin when hot or quite as thick when it is cold.The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) is the keeper of viscosity specifications. When SAE 10W-30 oil is cold, it will flow like 10-weight oil does in winter temperatures (thus, the "W"), and like 30-weight oil when it's hot. This doesn't mean that multigrade oil gets thicker as it gets hotter; it means the oil flows the same as straight 30-weight oil does when it gets hot. multi-viscosity oil is created by adding polymers to narrow the change in flow-rate over wide temperature ranges.In the ongoing effort to improve fuel economy, car manufacturers are designing their engines to use lighter oil, typically 5W-20 or 5W-30. Some of the hybrid engines are using 0W-20 oil. In any engine, oil has several functions, which include:* Lubricating moving parts.* Carrying heat away from engine parts.* Acting as hydraulic fluid for lifters, tensioners and actuators.* Sealing the rings to the pistons and cylinder walls.Today's engines are tighter and built with greater precision, so low-viscosity oil is quite adequate for these tasks. It improves fuel economy because it's easier to pump, which reduces engine power needed for the oil pump (parasitic loss) and creates less drag on rotating parts (windage loss). Once the engine is warmed up, using oil that's one or two grades thicker usually doesn't cause any problems other than reduced fuel economy. However, when it's cold, thicker oil flows slower, which can cause damaging wear during cold-start and, under certain conditions, can also prevent hydraulic lifters and tensioners from bleeding down as designed
http://www.motoroilworld.com/choosing_an_oil.html
-30 is thicker than -20. So switching oils actually would make a difference. And that's a fact. Will it solve the problem? I dunno... I've never had a starting problem.
#59
I have wondered about this too. The thing is, between 5w30 and 5w20, they are rated to have the same viscosity (5w) at low temperature and so it's like during startup. So I reasoned that both 5w20 and 5w30 oils flow the same during startup and the difference being 5w30 would be more viscous under operating temperature.
Am I missing something in my reasoning?
Am I missing something in my reasoning?
#60
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Originally Posted by SSQ
I have wondered about this too. The thing is, between 5w30 and 5w20, they are rated to have the same viscosity (5w) at low temperature and so it's like during startup. So I reasoned that both 5w20 and 5w30 oils flow the same during startup and the difference being 5w30 would be more viscous under operating temperature.
Am I missing something in my reasoning?
Am I missing something in my reasoning?
Ok nevermind...I just did some quick research... The winter rating is tested at 0deg celsius, and operating temperatur is tested at 100deg C. I have no idea if the transition is a linear curve or not.
Are you guys seeing ambient temperature's lower than 32 deg F?