How to increase substantial HP without forced induction

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08-16-2004 | 11:05 PM

#41

Kapthowdy

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Joined: Aug 2004

Posts: 186

Quote:

Originally Posted by evomind

yeah, very funny kapthowdy.....
lets see, im running a 475 whp evo, and a 600 hp cobra, both on pump gas......

WOW EVO...YOU ARE A GOD

Quote:

Originally Posted by evomind

lets just say i probably have a little more knowledge in turbos, superchargers, and a whole lot of other stuff than you do.....

How exactly do you know this? I agree the turbo is the wrong route for the xB. I'd be happy to discuss volumetric efficiency with you at any point. I'm sure I'll come away a better man as you no doubt have such a vast amount of knowledge I don't. I mean, anyone smart enough to have not one amazingly car, but TWO very unbelievable amazing cars is sure to be able to teach me something. Unlike you I don't know the secrets of the universe...

I live downtown Orlando if you wanna get together and compare cars...I wont bring the Scion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by evomind

i dont sit around writing stupid posts, thinking about horsepower, ive actually done it.....

was it you that made this statement, or some other jackass?

"ok, u racer wannabes.....
ask any good tuner if its a good idea to put a turbo on a engine thats pushing 10:1 compression....
your tuning better be spot on if you go this route, cause one small detonation and ur picking up pieces of your engine and putting them in the back of ur xb or whatever.
can u do it?? yes, u can do anything if your willing (and able) to spend a fortune making your brick with wheels go fast...
i would urge anyone who buys a turbo kit to get it custom tuned......"

Quote:

Originally Posted by evomind

2 both my cars....

yes...BOTH of your amazing unbelievable cars...yer the man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by evomind

first off, i really wouldnt recommend an after market turbo kit for this car....if toyota makes it, thats different. but if you just "have" to, have it custom tuned. number one, just because it "comes pretuned" or whatever, doesent mean its a very good tune...do you have first or second hand knowledge that these companies are capable tuners?? and when i say "tune" im referring more to air/fuel ratios so u dont ever run lean....if you run lean, yes, u will be looking at a blown motor, thats not bs.

I see some of these guys don't agree with you, but I do...I'm sure you've got tons of hours on the dyno with your TWO amazing cars...what does your wife drive? A McClaren?

Quote:

Originally Posted by evomind

ill sell ya a clue for 2 bucks....
and i REALLY agree that another 30hp or so is not worth the cost...
if ur looking for a fast ride, ur looking in the wrong place with the xb.....sorry.

I think I'll pass on the clue...too expencive. I never said I wanted a fast ride...jus wanted to have a lil fun with my wifes car. I have my own fast car, whats yer name on the corral? I'd like to see the Cobra...we may have something in common.

Kapt

08-16-2004 | 11:22 PM

#42

Kapthowdy

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Joined: Aug 2004

Posts: 186

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireballfish

The 2ZZ-GE Turbo kit on a stock matrix is recomended to run 7psi for 91 octane, no pinging. the power went from 159hp 116 lb/ft to 234 hp 168 lb/ft that's a 47% increase in HP and a 44% increase in torque. This kit includes a turbo and all ducting (both exhaust side and intake side, so a full exhaust intake, and a vishnu management unit) giving that we make about 92 or so HP at the wheels stock, I would be VERY happy with 130 hp at the wheels. I would not recomend using nitrous, lest you don't mind voiding your warrenty, because no matter how easy it is to remove for warrenty stuff, if your motor or tranny quit working at any time, it usually happens at the worst time (i.e. not at home) so you would have to worry about removing it before you get towed to the dealer. also, Nitrous is ILLEGAL to be used on the street, where as depending on your state, most Forced induction kits are legal. As for the comment that ["most Scion owners are not "car guys""] I find that Completely untrue. I think that most people that buy the xB ARE in large more into cars than any other car in it's price range. Sure, the civic is more popular, but there is a much higher percent that drive civics that are the whole "put gas and drive" kind. I know I work on a lot of different cars, and even had a 2.3 turbo powered ranger (turbo coupe T-bird engine) but mine had 8.0:1 CR. 10 years ago no one thought a car would come stock with 11.5 CR like the 2ZZ-GE has, much less be able to put a turbo on it and run pump gas. ECU's do wonders, and believe it or not, we've made advances in car technology since the SVO. 20 years IS a lot of time.

If that's the power gains you get for your $4500-$5500 and you're happy with it, then go for it. I agree 130hp would be real fun in this lil car. I'll spend $800 to do it and still have a more reliable and easily reversable set up. It'll take me a 10th of the time to remove all plumbing and wiring from my hick mobile than your teched out headgasket blowin turbo car.

As far as the "car guy" comment. Maybe I came off the wrong way. I meant the kinda guys who like tinkering with their stuff to make it faster, not light up a cup holder.

Maybe I'll just brush back my mullet and listen to my "rockin the 80s" cassette and wait for 20 years of technology to catch up to me...

Thanks for the debate fellas..

Kapt

08-17-2004 | 03:11 PM

#43

Rogginator

Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2004

Posts: 13

dude, where did you get that tape? it would sound _____in in my TA.

08-17-2004 | 09:14 PM

#44

kdanie

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Joined: Dec 2003

Posts: 309

From: Petaluma, CA

The comment about $1000 getting you 10-20 hp is exagerated. One of the tuner mags did a dyno test with intake, header and exhaust. They gained about 8.5hp for about $1000. The aftermarket stuff for these cars is all about looks and convience of installation, not power.

ken

08-17-2004 | 10:27 PM

#45

Rogginator

Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2004

Posts: 13

i know it is pathetic like that, but you could get a 50 shot for a grand and slap it on there

08-18-2004 | 04:13 AM

#46

kdanie

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Joined: Dec 2003

Posts: 309

From: Petaluma, CA

Or, for about $700 I can build my own real performance header, full exhaust and an intake that works. I would bet I can gain 20hp or slightly more. I might need an AFC to trick the ECU and make it work but the HP would be easy. I could use the HP any time I want without refilling a bottle or damaging my engine.

100hp per liter is common for modern N/A engines, these can do it too if the right parts combination is put together.

ken

08-22-2004 | 11:36 PM

#47

the_drizzle

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Joined: May 2004

Posts: 63

Ken, I really think you should build this header. I feel like the xA is light enough that I would be happy with 15-20 more hp, and there is just no way to make that much with the currently offered mods. Forced induction is not an option for most of us b/c of the warranty issue, but a great intake/exhaust set up IS! Even if you were not able to mass produce it, maybe we could find a shop that would custom make something using your design and offer with it with a full exhaust. This would be a great option for scions that would be willing to pay a little extra for real gains. I am really serious when I say that you should do this.

08-25-2004 | 12:17 AM

#48

nest

Senior Member

SL Member

Joined: Mar 2004

Posts: 233

From: Phoenix, AZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by evomind

ok, u racer wannabes.....
ask any good tuner if its a good idea to put a turbo on a engine thats pushing 10:1 compression....
your tuning better be spot on if you go this route, cause one small detonation and ur picking up pieces of your engine and putting them in the back of ur xb or whatever.
can u do it?? yes, u can do anything if your willing (and able) to spend a fortune making your brick with wheels go fast...
i would urge anyone who buys a turbo kit to get it custom tuned......

I definitely would not do this. I'm reluctant to introduce forced induction to this motor as it is, especially with Toyota offering a S/C for nearly every car in their lineup EXCEPT this one. Not exactly a vote of confidence..

However, it's perfectly reasonable to put an S/C or a turbo with mild boost on a car with 10:1 compression. Of course, if you expect to run the higher levels of boost usually expected from a turbocharger then the compression ratio should be reduced with a new crank and/or con rods otherwise you're going to experience predetonation even with premium gas and that would probably be the least of your problems.

08-25-2004 | 04:14 PM

#49

spooktacular

Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2004

Posts: 18

I don't like this evomind guy. Seems like he just came to our site to knock our cars.
That's not cool!

08-25-2004 | 04:23 PM

#50

Rogginator

Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2004

Posts: 13

20 hp from exhaust and intake on this thing? what are you smokin?

08-25-2004 | 04:37 PM

#51

empleh

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Joined: Mar 2004

Posts: 331

From: Hawaii at heart, L.A. in

well, seeing as how no aftermarket company has been able to make a forced induction kit that works for extended time yet (sorry don't consider the blitz supercharger extended time yet), it seems our 1.5L motor was not meant to be forced induced. although they do have turbo bB's in japan.....

08-26-2004 | 03:58 AM

#52

kdanie

Senior Member

SL Member

Joined: Dec 2003

Posts: 309

From: Petaluma, CA

Rogginator,
No, I'm not high and it is absolutley possible to gain 20 hp from an intake/header/ehxaust but NOT those currently available.

Do you know why the available intakes are only 2.25" dia. tube? I do, and I know the fix for more flow than those can produce... I've got a prototype on my bench that needs some slight rework before testing...

Do you know why the DC header only makes about 6 hp over stock? I do, and I know how to make much more than that....

I will get to it eventually, I have too many car projects going right now and a bunch of BMW headers to build...

ken

09-08-2004 | 07:29 PM

#53

bascelik

Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2004

Posts: 18

From: Houston, TX

You wanna stay N/A, but add 25-100% HP and/or lose weight, you'll have to sacrifice daily drivability:

* possibly do a stroker build up, by increasing engine bore (increases displacement, therefore power)
* new high-compression pistons, possibly rods, etc...
* piston compression ratio 13:1
* start buying race gas @ $5/gallon
* intake: CAI, ram-air if possible
* cooling: lower thermostat and better (read: bigger) radiator
* exhaust: no cats (straight pipes), free-flowing cat-back, ceramic-coated headers
* no A/C
* race cams
* light-weight clutch and flywheel
* reflash ECU for all of the above
* light-weight wheels (f'get the 20" rims, go with minimum rim necessary for good brakes -- 17"/18" light-light-light-weight!)
* LW kevlar/CF bucket seats
* start stripping interior of unnecessary sound deadenning material, etc...
* LW car battery (like braille, or oddysey)
* plus many more, I'm sure I missed a bunch... throttle body?

Cheers.

09-08-2004 | 07:49 PM

#54

chucksu

Senior Member

SL Member

Joined: Jul 2004

Posts: 2,170

From: Navarre, FL

Quote:

Originally Posted by bascelik

I dont think any thing you listed other then headers & Intake are a cheap way to free up / make power. Pistons, Cams, Rods, Crank all would be custom.

09-08-2004 | 07:52 PM

#55

Archivez2005TC

Senior Member

SL Member

Joined: Aug 2004

Posts: 123

Quote:

Originally Posted by violent b

stickers by far! I can't tell you how many fast-as-hell civics I see with stickers. lol.

especially the type-R stickers

09-08-2004 | 07:58 PM

#56

empleh

Senior Member

SL Member

Joined: Mar 2004

Posts: 331

From: Hawaii at heart, L.A. in

^^ no, no we need TRD stickers

anyone else sound out TRD?

09-10-2004 | 02:55 AM

#57

Tuning69

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Joined: May 2004

Posts: 162

From: R & H Scion (MD)

Quote:

I thought TRD had a turbo/supercharger for the bB. I have watched the video and read the .co.jp site on it. http://www.trdparts.jp/parts_trdturbo-complete.html

As far as compression. I thought these were 10.5:1?

On the Matrix XRS .. I thought TRD couldnt offer a Fi Kit cause the compression was too high on the XRS motor.

Oh and Evo... Can I have your job? Send lil of that pocket cash this way.