JDMxB

First of all--plenty of people want more power out of their Scion--I don't know how you make a comment like that "based on the response in this thread"--because the only responses in this thread are that you are charing way too much for what you want to do.

Most if not ALL aftermarket companies work an agreement to at least give the first customer/prototype product for FREE to the car that is used to test it on. Think about it this way...what's one free kit to the car that comes all the way to detriot to get it tested--do you not have enough confidence in the kit, that after it fits ok and works well on that first car, that it won't sell to others with a Scion?

I still don't know why you guys want 3k for the first one...I mean, you seem to be missing the point--THE MONEY WILL COME IN AND YOU KNOW YOU WILL MAKE MORE THAN ENOUGH TO COVER THAT 3k ON THE FIRST KIT--by showing this side of things, it kinda sends the wrong impression--that you are more worried about the $$$ than making the customers happy.

SGVside

JDMxB is exaclty correct. Not even top notch companies give prototypes at almost msrp. They will give it to you at a high discount rate or free.

Someone would probably do it if it was for free. From California to Detroit is a gang of gas and milage. Trailering it will even cost more. You have better luck when you find a client in Detroit.

Not only your company has a supercharger. A lot of companies are working on turbos and supercharges. So good luck trying selling a prototype that needs more work for 3g's.

Think about it and talk it out with the Marketing Manager!

Monkeywrench

>Most if not ALL aftermarket companies work an agreement to at least give the first
>customer/prototype product for FREE

Again, I'll emphasize that this isn't a prototype that MWR has designed. This is a production kit that's been for sale in Japan for quite a while, and is designed and built by one of Japan's top tuner shops. We just want to verify function on a US vehicle, nothing more. It's not a part that's exclusive to us. It's also not a kit that I think we'll sell tons of- it's a high end supercharger kit for a relatively low cost vehicle. We do have a few customers who are interested though, and won't start selling them to US customers until we have full confidence in it.

Giving away a free exhaust to the customer who gives a company the use of their car for a week for design and fitment use makes sense- it costs next to nothing in materials to build an exhaust. That is not a case that's comparable to what we're offering. We're looking to do a free install of a discounted product made by another company. We're certainly not making money on this one. It would be easier if there were a lot of Scions in Detroit- that's not the case. Unfortunate I guess. The offer remains open, please let me know if any of you are interested.

MadSciontist

If you have a few customers intrested have one of them come over and do the test fitment. I am sure that if they are intrested in purchasing the kit as you said then they will gladly drive or trailer their ride there for free labor, dyno and discounted pricing on a kit they were already going to buy.

Monkeywrench

That's what I was hoping, but the trek from California is too much for many people. I guess we'll just wait until the Scion gets popular in Detroit.

Monkeywrench

As we've made public, the retail price set by Power Enterprise is $3480. Our price will most likely be $3159. Yes, it's expensive compared to the vehicle's purchase price. If that means there's no market for it than so be it.

eric_m

i think if you guys were in california or if we were in michigan it would be a different story. that's probably why there is so much negativity here. i think it would be an ok deal if we didn't have to drive so far. soon there will be scions in michigan for you to prototype the parts. but you guys should hurry because there are already several big companies that have actual working supercharger kits right now. i saw the blitz one in person and it looks nice. it even drove with us on a scion run. also i'm sure vortech and trd will ahve their own supercharger kits coming soon as well. not to mention all the companies putting together turbo kits.

RB_Motoring

Monkeywrench Racing is one of our most respected dealers, and they are, as much as we are, listed and fully acknowledged to be an authorized source of Power Enterprise products in the USA. I'm certain that if the kit was provided to MWR free of charge, Matt will kindly offer the kit "free of charge" to anyone willing to allow testing to be done on their vehicle. However, in this case, it is not.

I'm sorry to say but in this particular case, MWR is indeed trying their best to work with owners of the Scion xB. Power's Japan was approached by us, and I'm sure by others, in regards to obtaining a kit to "test" the product with, however, as it shows here, their decision was pretty much "final" by Power's Japan that a free kit will not be issued. We understand that in THIS market (US Market), companies providing test components free of charge is a standard proceedure, however, Power's is a Japanese company, and I can not reiterate how different their business practices are overseas.

We also contemplated in purchasing an xB for the purpose of testing this kit as we did with a 350z for prototyping a turbo system that Power's Japan was developing. Yes, we actually purchased a 350z track edition to help them develop a turbo kit for the US market. However, their level of gratitude with our assistance has easily led us to decide never to do that again (purchase a vehicle for the purpose of testing). We got absolutely nothing out of the deal with the 350z. Basically, I am sharing this information with you so that you can better see the differences between the US method of doing business vs. the Japanese method of doing business.

Anyways, the Power's supercharger was developed for the bB in Japan with the same exact engine. Everything looks like it will work, and the president of Power's Japan reassured us that it will....however, it's hard to set that information in concrete unless one is actually fitted onto a US car. For those who are thinking that Power's is a "small company", you're right. They are. They are not like the "big boys" like HKS, GReddy, Blitz....but you know what, EACH ONE OF THEM RUN POWER'S PARTS ON THEIR VERY OWN PROFESSIONAL RACE CARS IN JAPAN. Each one of them....EACH ONE OF THEM. Let me give you an example. If it's a car, and it's racing in Japan professionally, it's most likely using a Power Enterprise timing belt. Power Enterprise may be a small company, but it surely is one of the most respected companies in Japan.

Torokun

RB Motoring, with all due respect, I can not disagree more. When we go to Japan for business, we have to follow their business model. We can not "implement" we do work here with them. Same thing here. If they are not willing to work with the system here, they will fall that much behind. Now, with that said, I am not by all means saying that all the companies should give out their first product as free for a testing purpose. Some companies do need support to make their wonderful products known. However, I see so many companies from Japan and Korea trying to break in to US market. But, are not willing to work with/understand/conform to how the business is practiced here.

And Monkeywrench, why would you push this product so much if you acknowledge that the kit is "expensive"? You are right. I say about 95% of Scion buyers are wanting more power. But, you are not going to gain customers by maintaining a thread like this.

-First of all, you will be competing against companies like Blitz and HKS. But, you dont' sound too convinced of the product you are selling.

-Second of all, they way you have been treating your potential clients in this forum has been not very professional. Granted, most of people haven't been too nice either, if you are a business person, you should remain deplomatic for other people who are checking out this thread.

-Thirdly, You kept saying that this is not a prototype kit and it has been tested in Japan for many years. Then, you shouldn't be saying things like that you want to "test it out". Because you are putting doubts in your potential customer. Why would anyone buy a product that the seller is not even sure of?

-Lastly, about $300 difference is not worth it for anyone to drive all the say from LA to detroit to install an untested kit. I mean... would you have done it if you were a Scion owner?

Thank you for listening to my humble opinion. I hope you won't be too much offended by my comments.

RB_Motoring

[quote="Torokun"]RB Motoring, with all due respect, I can not disagree more. When we go to Japan for business, we have to follow their business model. We can not "implement" we do work here with them. Same thing here. If they are not willing to work with the system here, they will fall that much behind. Now, with that said, I am not by all means saying that all the companies should give out their first product as free for a testing purpose. Some companies do need support to make their wonderful products known. However, I see so many companies from Japan and Korea trying to break in to US market. But, are not willing to work with/understand/conform to how the business is practiced here.

Did you mean to say that you are "agreeing" with me?

Torokun

I guess I am affirming the fact that business practice are done differently. But, you are making it sound like you are condoning how Power is trying to do business in US the way they do in Japan. I am saying it shouldn't be done that way.

Good business practice should be emulated. But, this has nothing to do with that. If they have a rule not to give their test product out for free, that's fine. But, dont' make that part of your business practice as something to be proud of. Because it's not goign to help the company's image too high.

Also, I already acknowledged that this unwritten rule of giving out test products for free is not a golden rule. And we as consumers have to learn to support companies who can not afford to run their business this way.

I am making bigger issue out of how this particular thread is handled. Even if your customers aren't showing too much maturity, you should treat them with respect. I am more refering to Monkeywrench...

RB_Motoring

I'm not saying that I agree with Power's Japan. I feel it shouldn't be that way either. I think we see eye to eye, it's just that you read my stuff all wrong. Power's should issue a free kit.

scionlife

Wow.

I think that Monkey Wrench has a perfectly good offer. He wants to bring the supercharger over from Japan but not unless it works as well on the US-Spec Scion as it does on the Jap-Spec Toyota. Because of the high cust he can;t just order one for the hell of it, so he has to pass that cost on the the first buyer. He isn't forcing anyone to drive from Cali... there are Scion owners all over the US now.

The REAL question is this: Will Monkey Wrench guarantee the install 100%? If the unit is installed correctly and works that is great, but if it does not work or breaks the engine will eveyrthing be taken care of? And will the owner of the vehicle be compensated if he ultimately drives away a month later with a rebuilt engine and no supercharger? Hmmmm...

If it were my company I would give this gaurantee right up front, and I am guessing that Monkey Wrench would back this up, but I would like to see it in writing.

Darren

RB_Motoring

Exactly! This is why it should be the manufacturer to shoulder the burden of this. It's difficult to get a tuning shop to shoulder this kind of burden, as it honestly should not be their liability of the product was installed 100% correct. Even then, the end user must still understand that the engine has now been modified and there are certain risks that are involved with that entire aspect as well, regardless.

Well, according to the manufacturer, Power Enterprises, it fits....and it works -- even on a US spec car. I don't know how they arrived to that conclusion, however, perhaps they have already performed their own research on the subject and we just don't know. Power Enterprises has a US office they have established here, however, there is nobody qualified there to handle these types of inquries. We, RB Motoring, stand here as their largest US distributor.

MWR is in good standing with our company. I can say that MWR seems to be a reputable place of business, and perhaps we should simply have faith in knowing that MWR knows what they are doing...

RB_Motoring

Alright....so who's gonna help MKW fullfill their prophecy?! Think of it like this....the help you can give will help ALL Scion owners throughout the USA!

BB_Bling

Seperate from the discounted price of the supercharger, I think many people are overlooking the free labor for the install.

Dyno runs are fairly cheap and aren't the real incentive here... the no-cost install is.

If Monkeywrench was fabricating a kit from the ground up, paying close to retail would be quite a high price... but this isn't the case.

PE already has the kits in the Japanese market. There hasn't been one installed yet in the US.... this appears to be all Matt is trying to do. Find a donor Scion to make sure all the brackets, etc fit for the US-spec car.

From the "heat" inside this thread it seems the labor has been overlooked. Maybe if Matt were to quote what the installed price will be people might start to see the value of this offer?

Personally I've had too many bad experience with tuners and shops working on my past cars. I'd be willing to be the PE guinea pig myself, but I'd want to be the one turning the wrenches. The offer that Monkeywrench is making doesn't fit with that situation, so all I can say is someone in Michigan is going to be a happy camper soon!

RB_Motoring

Agreed!

MaxPower

Guys, I don't own a Scion, but I do know that if I were going to have a turbo installed in my MR2 Spyder, Monkeywrench Racing is the ONLY place I would go. With the MR2 there is alot of careful work and tuning that needs to be done to ensure that the turbo works properly and reliably. Anyone you talk to with a Spyder turboed by Monkeywrench will give them rave reviews. If there is any doubt about trusting Matt and the guys at Monkeywrench with your car, trust me when I say you would be in good hands. Us MR2 owners pay alot more money (Around $5000) to have our cars properly turboed for about the same percentage hp gain, so I don't see <$3000 as being overly expensive. Especially when you take into account the price it would be to install, dyno, and fine tune. It not as easy as just slapping in the Supercharger and going along your merry way. I bet to buy a kit like this and have it installed and tuned would easy be around $4000 or more. A 30 hp gain might not sound like much, but in such a low powered car that gain is quite large. The person that decides to bite the bullet and do this will be a lucky man. BTW, I like the site guys! I'm hanging around trying to find a Scion Factory radio for sale, so after that I'll be out of your business.

Check out these pics of a turbo install done by MWR on a MR2 Spyder owner's car (not mine):
http://www.sensory.com/users/ecohen/mw/mw.html

George

This has grown into quite a debate, so let's examine what is being asked of the "guinea pig" here.

1. The "guinea pig" is expected to deliver his vehicle to Detroit, free of charge.
2. The supercharger will be installed, provided that it fits. If it doesn't, the "guinea pig" is out of luck. So sorry, have a nice trip home.
3. The "guinea pig" subjects his car to the abuse of the "free" dyno runs, but who really gets value here? The dyno data is much more valuable for advertising than to the "guinea pig."
4. What happens if the engine grenades on the dyno? That isn't stated, but this vendor has already demonstrated his thriftiness, so I wouldn't count on the repairs to be covered. So sorry, have a nice bus ride home.

In return for these hassles and risks, the "guinea pig" gets an unspecified "slightly discounted" price. Let's say that the discount is 10%, which is on the high end of "slightly". That would be $316. That sum wouldn't even cover the expenses of the trip!

I can see why people aren't rushing to accept this offer!

George

eric_m

yeah, and meanwhile, other companies are hard at work fitting their turbo and supercharger kits which will be available soon for less money than the PE kit. and since all the superchargers are making about the same amount of power, whoever comes out first with the best price will have the advantage. i guess that's what happens when you're cheap. you save a couple thousand dollars initially, but you lose potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales from taking too long to produce a useable product.