I wouldn't call it "screwing people" more Scion sticking to there financial models. It's not like they are holding a gun to your head. From the sound of your posts, it more sounds like you are mad that you can't get what you would consider a good deal. I'm pretty sure most other car companies are a lot worse of than Scion right now, so that right there should tell you that their business model is just fine.

 

Im not a whining kid, but rather an actice consumer. I want to get the most for my dollar and when I bought the TC, that was it, but no longer. I see myself soon buying a Si, or the Genesis Coupe, turbo. Ill be getting much more car for a comparative ammount of money. I will just let the market decide. Apparently, we have too many fanboys on here that just wont admit that the Tc may not be a great deal now.

My wife really wanted an XB, but I think that she will be getting an AWD CRV or SantaFe for comparable price, when properly equipped.

 

Well then, you better buy soon. I guarantee once the economy turns upward at all, those companies will pull those discounts off the market really quick.

 

That is the point that Im trying to make. Buy something else now, and when the market recovers you may end up with a windfall if you trade in later.

Im so glad Obama fixed the economy. Ive lost 10 pounds not eating and burying all of my money in jars in the back yard. See you all in the bread lines.

 

Well I can now see your point, But I wouldn't label it as a rip off. Rather bad for Scion in terms of competing in the market.

The honest truth is, if I was buying, I would probably still have to buy the tC because of insurance rates.

But I do know there are good deals out there, friends of mine have gotten better used cars than my tC for thousands less than my tC. And it is even a better deal when you look at what it did cost; and the cars are only 2-3 years old.

But I don't feel ripped off, because my dealer was cool, I liked my sales man, I got a Toyota quality. And the other thing is,

I don't want to know what I could buy for the same money now. Because I had to buy when I did and I can't buy now and I don't need to entertain the idea of getting a new car.

But if you do tell me I could get the V6 Accord Coupe in a 6 speed in Red for near the price of my tC I will be sad, because that is the car I really wanted.

But you are right, you can end up walking of a dealer lot with a car in the $25k range for about the same money as the tC costs. And the tC can't compete with a car in that class.

But I think the real question is, If scion could slash the cost of the tC and the people here are correct and there is only a $1000 to $2000 profit on each car why? Because that makes a tC $15k about with no profit. Why can the other car companies sell a much better car for about the same price to us? If you can get an SI for the cost of the tC (around $18k) how does Honda do it? Because the SI is a better car than the tC. (I am talking stock to stock and interior and such)

 

One reason is volume. I don't care to look up the numbers, but if you lump together all the model Civics and compare it to the number of tCs sold, I'm guessing it's quite a bit higher.

Another could be inventory levels. Scion is known to be a lower volume, made to order type company, so they could be sitting on a lot less fully built cars than Honda. At some point, it would make sense for Honda to sell cars for very little to no profit to even losing a little because for every Civic sitting on a lot, it's costing Honda money.

I'm sure there are other reasons, but that's enough for now.

 

Exactly, I would guess that they are selling them at a loss, but it still costs less than the dealer needing to pay interest on the money they used to buy it from Honda corporate month after month. Car manufacturers "sell" their cars when they are delivered to the dealer lot. The dealer needs to rais capitol, in the form of loans, to buy the cars from the manufacturer. They then re-sell it to the consumer with a set profit. If it sits on the lot, it's still on the dealer's books and they are still paying interest on it.

Selling it, evan at less than dealer cost, gets rid of the loan and the loss the dealer may be able to write off as a business loss. Pretty much all businesses work this wey, the do not have enough cash on hand to constantly buy inventory, so they use business credit lines to buy inventory and then pay the credit off when the item sells. This is why the economy is so hosed right now. Banks don't have money to lend businesses because they lost it on bad mortgages, so there's no credit for business.

For those making this a political debate, give the market time. It took 8 years of the last administration to run it into the ground, it won't get fixed in 30 days. Capping banker salaries that recieve federal aid, since we the people are now the majority shareholders, allows more money to be lent as credit and to cover bad mortgage losses. This is what the company boards should have done when their CEO's weren't performing except they probably had financial ties and it wasn't their money they were spending.

 

(All Manual Models, based on Edmunds.com’s “what people are paying figures”)

tC: $17,670

Mazdaspeed3: $22,943 ($987 over invoice)

Civic Si: $20,591 ($245 under invoice)

Civic EX (closer competitor to a tC IMO): $18,161 ($291 under invoice)

Evo X: $30,975 ($813 under invoice)

Just picked a few of the cars that were mentioned here, but generally the only car here that someone would be comparing to the tC would be the Civic EX (at least from what I've seen @ the dealership, even the Si is not often seriously compared to the tC). Point being, even when these other cars are being sold @ or under invoice, they still cost more than the tC does @ pure price. Does that mean that they are bad deals? Nope, just means they are differant cars that drive differantly. A "deal" on a car can mean completely differant things to differant people, depending on what they want out of a car. Compare a tC to anything out there with similar performance, features, size, etc., however, and you'd be hard pressed to find anything that is cheaper, or even the same price as it, even with the tC being sold at its pure price.

So I don't really see how "pure price" is a ripoff. This is an topic that has been raised since Scion first launched, yet the only reason for it is that "they don't discount the cars, so they must be ripping us off." I truly beleive that pure price is good for the industry, but this same closed-minded attitude is why, unfortunatly, this practice will probably never make it to any of the major brands, for fear of losing sales.

 

Kinda didnt read my previous posts there. All of those other cars grossly outperform the Tc. If you get the Tc up around 200hp, your going to pay more than all of those other cars if they knock a few bucks off of invoice. Thus, pure-price screwed you.

 

Yes, if you like seeing money knocked off the sticker price, the Scion Prue Price system will not appeal to you.

I really don't think it is "screwing" anyone. Because if it was, I am pretty sure they would have changed it because no one would be buying cars.

If I got screwed because I got a faster 0-60 time, standard sun roof, standard alloy wheels all for less then the Civic Ex then put me down as happy for being screwed by Pure Pricing.

 

Let it go. The only one in the price range of the tC, the Civic EX, is 20 HP LESS than the tC, and with a 1.8L.

And seriously, if you're buying the tC based solely on HP numbers thinking it's a sports car, you'll be sadly disappointed. It follows the "touring" concept, trading some performance for refinement and creature comforts for spirited, long distance travel.

If you can find a better deal right now, then by all means go for it, you'll pay for it in resale later while Toyota takes the long view, something rarely seen in business these days.

 

I find it funny how everyone is talking about how the market works, yet all the OP sees is HP to value. Try a 370Z or S2000 if you want power for its value. Oh wait, the S2000 costs more and has less HP... hmm...

 

Yessir. The tC and Civic Si are two different class of vehicles. If this is all the OP sees just trade in the tC and get your Si. My friend did bout 2 yrs ago. Had the tC(2005 yr) and turbo'd it, had his fun, took off the turbo, traded it for the Si. The dealer paid off the tC so he owed 0 on the trade and started fresh. I'm sure you can do that too and haggle like you'd like. The tC for it's class I find has the best quality and value for the price, but to compare it to an Si it's like apples to oranges. I drive around in my tC and am flattered by the Si's that challenge me on the street but my car performance wise just doesn't match(though many Si owners and those not in the know think the tC does) and let them keep going.

 

The si isn't even that much better? haven't you guys been in one? is feels like the same cheap plastic junk in the tc. It's basically the same inside as a civic and I think it's debatable witch feels of a higher quality, I hate the two windows for the gauges thing and prefer the plastics in the tc. Also the si is not that much faster than the tc, there's more to it than HP and it's only like what 2/10's of a second slower than the si on the 1/4 mile?
So what is it the LSD or the paint or something? because don't forget the tc has things the si doesn't like an all glass roof for example. Also it comes with the second most reliable engine on the market? Also toyota's are always historically alittle more reliable than honda's in the same class, true or not this is the perception.
What really is bad is the resale value of tc's and this is due to people just assuming it as not being as good as it really is. The si has a lawnmower engine and is slow too, just not quite as slow as a tc.

 

I kinda think this thread is missing the point. Its almost impossible to compare a TC to any of the other vehicles mentioned simply because we are talking about companies with entirely different goals in mind. The TC is meant to be a reliable, valuable, safe, stylish, fun, and INEXPENSIVE car. Toyota designers didn't go into the design thinking "ok lets make this thing capable of pulling 350 on a dyno." Instead they made it smooth, reliable, easy to drive, not ugly, and not cookie cutter like all the civics I have ever seen. If the question is over achievable HP your thinking with your man bits and not your brain. At this point if you have to squabble over the price difference of haggling you shouldn't be buying a new car anyway.

*waits to get flamed*

 

I dont see how this thread misses the point. I said that if you want a 200ish horsepower car the Tc w/ pure-price is a rip-off. I think that it still may be a rip-off if you wanted a 160 horsepower car (Mazda 3, Cobalt, Pontiac G5, ect). My point is that pure-price is a rip-off when the other dealers are slashing prices to entice purchases while Scion dealers are telling people, "sorry, pure price," despite the fact that cars are not selling for what they were just a year ago. I bought a Tc thinking about getting an SC or going CAI, ect. But, now, I cannot get past the thought of just getting a discounted Si, or Cobalt SS Turbo at a discount, having a lower total price for a faster car.

If I added a differential, and a supercharger to my Tc, with install, it would be more expensive than just getting an Si, or a Cobalt SS turbo, both of which are still faster, and are getting sweet financing and cash off deals right now.

My wife wanted to get an Xb as already stated, but there are comparably equipped 4x4 SUV's on the market right now, with discounts. Why should she still get an pure-price 2 wheel drive Xb? Why should I spend more money to get a slower car?

No one has answered these questions, but rather, the consensus seems to be that "Toyota would not lie to us, this is the best we can do," or that the "cars are not comparable." All kind of dodging the fact that pure-price, or manufacturer locked retail prices are a rip-off when the economy takes a dump. Ill probably be taking my business elseware, because I guess that is how the market works.

 

^ Quit your whining. When Scion started pure price we werent in a recession. Now that we are, car delearships are finding it hard to move their inventory, so they are more willing to bulge. Obviously since Scions are pure priced, you cant haggle. So you pay the sticker price. Whats so hard to understand about that?

You stated ifyou want a 200hp tC it will end up costing more than the Si, so its a rip off. No it is not. YOU are the one that wants that extra power, so YOU spend the money. Sorry, Scion is trying to target jakedudeta1 no matter what to buy a tC. They want to sell to a big crowd, and most of the people that buy the tC dont care about the supercharger. I see more old people, people in their 20-30s who dont care about performance drive tCs. If thats who they are selling to, thats who they are going to markey it to. Simple business.

If you think spending more money to the tC is stupid and you rather buy an Si, go ahead. Atleast the Si responds well to bolt ons. But saying a tC + LSD + charger is a ripoff, well you are the idiot that wants the LSD and charger in the first place.

 

Well just take a look at where you are....seems you think the world here is against your opinion...well everyone on here is entitled to their opinions. If you dont like it... then move on. Not everyone is blind on here to the rest of the market.... most of us just happen to think that for the money a Scion tC is a good car for the money. If you're so dead set on thinking otherwise...well that's your right to your own opinion... so maybe you should just scoot to a honda site because you like them more than Toyota... no big deal...
We respect your opinion that you like honda better... so be it... but how about respecting Toyota owner's opinions too. There's a novel thought.
geez.. bickering doesnt have any place on ScionLife.... for the love of pete! lol

 

You forgot to add the dealer install price. I'd rather DIY and save $$$. BTW, isn't the supercharger discontinued?? He talks of the xB yet wants a 4x4?? Looking at Scion for a vehicle they don't have made isn't going to magically have one there at the lot the next day, and don't hold your breath jakedudeta1.

 

The Scion is great deal, thats different. For the money and value, the Scion is a great car, good enough performance for the average person.

Go grab a Genesis coupe, im looking to trade my tC in for something and thats one of my options. Dont think of it as getting more bang for your buck. The Genesis coupe is in a different league to the tC.