salesmen and commission
03-02-2005, 11:41 AM
#21
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lake Havasu,AZ
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by DJIce
The sales guy I was talking to made perfect sense as to why salesmen would sell Scions over say, Toyotas on the same lot.
Yes, there are going to be cases where you oversell a car to someone and make a much larger comission. However, in today's consumer-informed world where most comparison facts are a few clicks away and information is readily available (i.e., dealer invoices), they go in to the dealership and start bargaining much lower than a decade or two ago. And consumers are no fools; they'll play two or three dealerships off of one another in order to get a car at $100 over invoice. And dealerships have no choice but to take it, or else they lose a sale. Whereas, every Scion that gets sold has an average profit of $750 for the dealership (figures the sales guy threw at me), which then gets split accordingly to overhead, management, and then sales commission, sales people would rather sell for a guaranteed, set commission than risk a $20 commission because someone did his/her homework.
Scions also sell themselves. You can move them faster for many reasons. So more units in less time = better money.
Seems to be a no brainer to me.
Yes, there are going to be cases where you oversell a car to someone and make a much larger comission. However, in today's consumer-informed world where most comparison facts are a few clicks away and information is readily available (i.e., dealer invoices), they go in to the dealership and start bargaining much lower than a decade or two ago. And consumers are no fools; they'll play two or three dealerships off of one another in order to get a car at $100 over invoice. And dealerships have no choice but to take it, or else they lose a sale. Whereas, every Scion that gets sold has an average profit of $750 for the dealership (figures the sales guy threw at me), which then gets split accordingly to overhead, management, and then sales commission, sales people would rather sell for a guaranteed, set commission than risk a $20 commission because someone did his/her homework.
Scions also sell themselves. You can move them faster for many reasons. So more units in less time = better money.
Seems to be a no brainer to me.
03-02-2005, 04:05 PM
#23
Member
SL Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Battle Ground, Washington
Posts: 84
I agree with you. I hate it when salesmen say the dealership is only making $100 or even $750. They couldn't keep the lights turned on for that. Invoice? Who's invoice? It's a piece of paper any of them can make and it's not what they pay. Talking with one ownwer of a different brand, he said he has to make $2,500 per car to pay for insurance, wages, utilities, etc. I'm sure they make money on the service end, too, but I know a couple dealer owners in CA and they aren't hurting in the least bit.[/quote]
Why do you think Scions are sold in Toyota Dealerships? Because the dealer makes a very, very small profit. Dont hate a sales person that makes a very small profit for very picky people that think they are being lied to. (like you) The dealers do make about 1000.00 on a scion, but have no real other incentives (IE holdback) SO its pretty laim.
Why do you think Scions are sold in Toyota Dealerships? Because the dealer makes a very, very small profit. Dont hate a sales person that makes a very small profit for very picky people that think they are being lied to. (like you) The dealers do make about 1000.00 on a scion, but have no real other incentives (IE holdback) SO its pretty laim.
03-02-2005, 06:26 PM
#24
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lake Havasu,AZ
Posts: 41
[quote budman"]I agree with you. I hate it when salesmen say the dealership is only making $100 or even $750. They couldn't keep the lights turned on for that. Invoice? Who's invoice? It's a piece of paper any of them can make and it's not what they pay. Talking with one ownwer of a different brand, he said he has to make $2,500 per car to pay for insurance, wages, utilities, etc. I'm sure they make money on the service end, too, but I know a couple dealer owners in CA and they aren't hurting in the least bit.[/quote]
jocappy wrote;
Why do you think Scions are sold in Toyota Dealerships? Because the dealer makes a very, very small profit. Dont hate a sales person that makes a very small profit for very picky people that think they are being lied to. (like you) The dealers do make about 1000.00 on a scion, but have no real other incentives (IE holdback) SO its pretty laim
[/quote budman]So you know an honest salesman? Can I meet him or her? I can't feel sorry for the dealer or the salesman. If they know going into it profits or commissions are so low, don't do it or get another job. With my "picky" attitude, I was able to retire at 43 and sit at this computer, how about you?
jocappy wrote;
Why do you think Scions are sold in Toyota Dealerships? Because the dealer makes a very, very small profit. Dont hate a sales person that makes a very small profit for very picky people that think they are being lied to. (like you) The dealers do make about 1000.00 on a scion, but have no real other incentives (IE holdback) SO its pretty laim
[/quote budman]So you know an honest salesman? Can I meet him or her? I can't feel sorry for the dealer or the salesman. If they know going into it profits or commissions are so low, don't do it or get another job. With my "picky" attitude, I was able to retire at 43 and sit at this computer, how about you?
03-02-2005, 08:13 PM
#26
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lake Havasu,AZ
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by shimmy
My sales guys said he makes $200 off of every tc he sells. Dealership's are not non-profit.
03-02-2005, 08:53 PM
#27
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 147
Let's be rational...
[modified]
It took me (and the sales rep) less than an hour to get the whole transaction wrapped up. The time spent with the finance guy was longer, but I doubt that the sales rep will share the commission with him. So even since he only made $200 on me, for one hour of work, that's still pretty good. The question is, can he really sale 8 cars a day?
On the other hand, think of some sales having to work on a case selling a Camry or a Solara. They have to be with the customer like 2 hours (on average, could be longer) back and forth for negotiation. They probably end up making more money on a Toyota, but they have to work much longer than that.
So, yes they probably make less on Scion on per car basis, but remember, because of the no haggle practice, they also spend less time with you, in which gives them more time to sell more cars. For them to make a decent income, they probably have to make somewhere around 80-120 dollars per hour. On top of basic wage, that's like selling 3-4 Scions a day. A good sales can sell 10 cars on a good day. So, I don't think they should complain too much.
It took me (and the sales rep) less than an hour to get the whole transaction wrapped up. The time spent with the finance guy was longer, but I doubt that the sales rep will share the commission with him. So even since he only made $200 on me, for one hour of work, that's still pretty good. The question is, can he really sale 8 cars a day?
On the other hand, think of some sales having to work on a case selling a Camry or a Solara. They have to be with the customer like 2 hours (on average, could be longer) back and forth for negotiation. They probably end up making more money on a Toyota, but they have to work much longer than that.
So, yes they probably make less on Scion on per car basis, but remember, because of the no haggle practice, they also spend less time with you, in which gives them more time to sell more cars. For them to make a decent income, they probably have to make somewhere around 80-120 dollars per hour. On top of basic wage, that's like selling 3-4 Scions a day. A good sales can sell 10 cars on a good day. So, I don't think they should complain too much.
03-02-2005, 09:37 PM
#28
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lake Havasu,AZ
Posts: 41
Re: Let's be rational...
Originally Posted by bigmouth2008
It took me about 1 hour time (he didn't go with me with the test drive, give gave me the key) with the sales rep to get the whole transaction wrapped up. The later time with the finance guy was longer, but I doubt the sales rep will share the commission with him.
So even since he only made $200 on me, for 1 hour of work, that's still pretty good. The question is, can he really sale 8 cars a day?
On the other hand, think of some sales have to work on a case selling a Camry or a Solara. They have to be with the customer like 2 hours (on average, could be longer) back and forth and back and forth for the negotiation. They probably end up making more money on a Toyota, but they have to work much longer than that.
So, yes they probably make less on Scion on per car basis, but remember, because the no haggle practice, they also spend less time with you which give them more time to sell more cars. For them to make a decent income, they probably have to make somewhere around 80-120 dollars per hour on their income. Plus basic wage, that's like selling 3-4 Scion a day. I've heard that on a good day, a good sales can sell like 10 cars. So, I don't think they should complain too mcuh.
So even since he only made $200 on me, for 1 hour of work, that's still pretty good. The question is, can he really sale 8 cars a day?
On the other hand, think of some sales have to work on a case selling a Camry or a Solara. They have to be with the customer like 2 hours (on average, could be longer) back and forth and back and forth for the negotiation. They probably end up making more money on a Toyota, but they have to work much longer than that.
So, yes they probably make less on Scion on per car basis, but remember, because the no haggle practice, they also spend less time with you which give them more time to sell more cars. For them to make a decent income, they probably have to make somewhere around 80-120 dollars per hour on their income. Plus basic wage, that's like selling 3-4 Scion a day. I've heard that on a good day, a good sales can sell like 10 cars. So, I don't think they should complain too mcuh.
03-02-2005, 10:11 PM
#29
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,214
Originally Posted by Souljah347
dealers don't pay invoice
Invoice is what the dealers pay Toyota to put the cars on their lots. Anything over invoice is profit, anything under is a loss.
03-02-2005, 10:14 PM
#30
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,214
Originally Posted by budman650
I'm saying that when they show you an invoice and say that the dealer is only making $200 on this deal, it's a lie.
Invoice is invoice, period. If they have you sitting at the table and are showing you an ACTUAL invoice, which will have a stock number, VIN number, and all the corporate info on it, you can count on it being legit.
That said, not a lot of dealerships will show you the invoice. I used to do it all the time on Scions though, because what is there to hide? Not to mention with Scions, you can't negotiate any changes anyway, so there was no harm in laying my cards on the table. Everyone knows Scion Invoice, it's common knowledge.
03-02-2005, 10:26 PM
#31
Member
SL Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Battle Ground, Washington
Posts: 84
This thread is funny. Invoice is what the dealer pays for the car. BUT they also pay flooring cost to have the vehicle on the lot. The dealership does not own the car, when it sells, they buy it, and sell it to you. Toyota (Scion) owns the cars on the lot and the dealership pays every day it sits on the lot. Oh, and there are honest sales people, if you have a preconsived notion about sales consultants, that is your issue,
03-02-2005, 10:51 PM
#32
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lake Havasu,AZ
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by jocappy
This thread is funny. Invoice is what the dealer pays for the car. BUT they also pay flooring cost to have the vehicle on the lot. The dealership does not own the car, when it sells, they buy it, and sell it to you. Toyota (Scion) owns the cars on the lot and the dealership pays every day it sits on the lot. Oh, and there are honest sales people, if you have a preconsived notion about sales consultants, that is your issue,
DibujoB says he knows what invoice is. Can he clear up this mess and tell us, all cards on the table? Is it $750, $1,000, etc.?
I've had issues with sales people, yes, there are good ones, maybe it isn't all lies, deceive maybe. When you call and ask how much a car is and when you get there, the price is higher? How about when the finance guy puts the security etch on your contract without telling you? I sure didn't order it. I'm just saying that I read some of these threads about people possibly getting burned and all it takes is reading the fine print and your contract.
03-02-2005, 10:59 PM
#33
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 147
Re: Let's be rational...
Originally Posted by budman650
Originally Posted by bigmouth2008
It took me about 1 hour time (he didn't go with me with the test drive, give gave me the key) with the sales rep to get the whole transaction wrapped up. The later time with the finance guy was longer, but I doubt the sales rep will share the commission with him.
So even since he only made $200 on me, for 1 hour of work, that's still pretty good. The question is, can he really sale 8 cars a day?
On the other hand, think of some sales have to work on a case selling a Camry or a Solara. They have to be with the customer like 2 hours (on average, could be longer) back and forth and back and forth for the negotiation. They probably end up making more money on a Toyota, but they have to work much longer than that.
So, yes they probably make less on Scion on per car basis, but remember, because the no haggle practice, they also spend less time with you which give them more time to sell more cars. For them to make a decent income, they probably have to make somewhere around 80-120 dollars per hour on their income. Plus basic wage, that's like selling 3-4 Scion a day. I've heard that on a good day, a good sales can sell like 10 cars. So, I don't think they should complain too mcuh.
So even since he only made $200 on me, for 1 hour of work, that's still pretty good. The question is, can he really sale 8 cars a day?
On the other hand, think of some sales have to work on a case selling a Camry or a Solara. They have to be with the customer like 2 hours (on average, could be longer) back and forth and back and forth for the negotiation. They probably end up making more money on a Toyota, but they have to work much longer than that.
So, yes they probably make less on Scion on per car basis, but remember, because the no haggle practice, they also spend less time with you which give them more time to sell more cars. For them to make a decent income, they probably have to make somewhere around 80-120 dollars per hour on their income. Plus basic wage, that's like selling 3-4 Scion a day. I've heard that on a good day, a good sales can sell like 10 cars. So, I don't think they should complain too mcuh.
I'm hurt. I am actually 4 and half now!
03-02-2005, 11:13 PM
#34
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lake Havasu,AZ
Posts: 41
Re: Let's be rational...
Originally Posted by bigmouth2008
Originally Posted by budman650
Originally Posted by bigmouth2008
It took me about 1 hour time (he didn't go with me with the test drive, give gave me the key) with the sales rep to get the whole transaction wrapped up. The later time with the finance guy was longer, but I doubt the sales rep will share the commission with him.
So even since he only made $200 on me, for 1 hour of work, that's still pretty good. The question is, can he really sale 8 cars a day?
On the other hand, think of some sales have to work on a case selling a Camry or a Solara. They have to be with the customer like 2 hours (on average, could be longer) back and forth and back and forth for the negotiation. They probably end up making more money on a Toyota, but they have to work much longer than that.
So, yes they probably make less on Scion on per car basis, but remember, because the no haggle practice, they also spend less time with you which give them more time to sell more cars. For them to make a decent income, they probably have to make somewhere around 80-120 dollars per hour on their income. Plus basic wage, that's like selling 3-4 Scion a day. I've heard that on a good day, a good sales can sell like 10 cars. So, I don't think they should complain too mcuh.
So even since he only made $200 on me, for 1 hour of work, that's still pretty good. The question is, can he really sale 8 cars a day?
On the other hand, think of some sales have to work on a case selling a Camry or a Solara. They have to be with the customer like 2 hours (on average, could be longer) back and forth and back and forth for the negotiation. They probably end up making more money on a Toyota, but they have to work much longer than that.
So, yes they probably make less on Scion on per car basis, but remember, because the no haggle practice, they also spend less time with you which give them more time to sell more cars. For them to make a decent income, they probably have to make somewhere around 80-120 dollars per hour on their income. Plus basic wage, that's like selling 3-4 Scion a day. I've heard that on a good day, a good sales can sell like 10 cars. So, I don't think they should complain too mcuh.
I'm hurt. I am actually 4 and half now!
03-02-2005, 11:21 PM
#35
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 136
I can tell you one thing....
I run a Scion dealership, but if I abandonned my Toyota responcbilities and simply ran the Scion store, I couldn't afford a place to live, food to eat, clothes to wear.
I run a Scion dealership, but if I abandonned my Toyota responcbilities and simply ran the Scion store, I couldn't afford a place to live, food to eat, clothes to wear.
03-02-2005, 11:36 PM
#36
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lake Havasu,AZ
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by KingofScion
I can tell you one thing....
I run a Scion dealership, but if I abandonned my Toyota responcbilities and simply ran the Scion store, I couldn't afford a place to live, food to eat, clothes to wear.
I run a Scion dealership, but if I abandonned my Toyota responcbilities and simply ran the Scion store, I couldn't afford a place to live, food to eat, clothes to wear.
03-03-2005, 12:25 AM
#37
Member
SL Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Battle Ground, Washington
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by budman650
Originally Posted by jocappy
This thread is funny. Invoice is what the dealer pays for the car. BUT they also pay flooring cost to have the vehicle on the lot. The dealership does not own the car, when it sells, they buy it, and sell it to you. Toyota (Scion) owns the cars on the lot and the dealership pays every day it sits on the lot. Oh, and there are honest sales people, if you have a preconsived notion about sales consultants, that is your issue,
DibujoB says he knows what invoice is. Can he clear up this mess and tell us, all cards on the table? Is it $750, $1,000, etc.?
I've had issues with sales people, yes, there are good ones, maybe it isn't all lies, deceive maybe. When you call and ask how much a car is and when you get there, the price is higher? How about when the finance guy puts the security etch on your contract without telling you? I sure didn't order it. I'm just saying that I read some of these threads about people possibly getting burned and all it takes is reading the fine print and your contract.
03-03-2005, 12:41 AM
#38
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
N.G.S.O.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: smarthomes chattanooga TN
Posts: 459
I would be willing to get into this discussion if it could come back on topic. What is the topic? How much we are paid, or how people don't feel sorry for me?
And I think that it is hilarious that someone thinks that a good car salesperson can sell 10 cars a day. Obviously not a car salesman...
I'll check back tomorrow, and I'll be willing to answer ANY questions anyone has about our sales department.
LATER
And I think that it is hilarious that someone thinks that a good car salesperson can sell 10 cars a day. Obviously not a car salesman...
I'll check back tomorrow, and I'll be willing to answer ANY questions anyone has about our sales department.
LATER
03-03-2005, 12:59 AM
#39
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lake Havasu,AZ
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by jocappy
Originally Posted by budman650
Originally Posted by jocappy
This thread is funny. Invoice is what the dealer pays for the car. BUT they also pay flooring cost to have the vehicle on the lot. The dealership does not own the car, when it sells, they buy it, and sell it to you. Toyota (Scion) owns the cars on the lot and the dealership pays every day it sits on the lot. Oh, and there are honest sales people, if you have a preconsived notion about sales consultants, that is your issue,
DibujoB says he knows what invoice is. Can he clear up this mess and tell us, all cards on the table? Is it $750, $1,000, etc.?
I've had issues with sales people, yes, there are good ones, maybe it isn't all lies, deceive maybe. When you call and ask how much a car is and when you get there, the price is higher? How about when the finance guy puts the security etch on your contract without telling you? I sure didn't order it. I'm just saying that I read some of these threads about people possibly getting burned and all it takes is reading the fine print and your contract.
Jumbo is on the right track and maybe we can sort through this.
03-03-2005, 04:39 AM
#40
Member
SL Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Battle Ground, Washington
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by budman650
Originally Posted by jocappy
Originally Posted by budman650
Originally Posted by jocappy
This thread is funny. Invoice is what the dealer pays for the car. BUT they also pay flooring cost to have the vehicle on the lot. The dealership does not own the car, when it sells, they buy it, and sell it to you. Toyota (Scion) owns the cars on the lot and the dealership pays every day it sits on the lot. Oh, and there are honest sales people, if you have a preconsived notion about sales consultants, that is your issue,
DibujoB says he knows what invoice is. Can he clear up this mess and tell us, all cards on the table? Is it $750, $1,000, etc.?
I've had issues with sales people, yes, there are good ones, maybe it isn't all lies, deceive maybe. When you call and ask how much a car is and when you get there, the price is higher? How about when the finance guy puts the security etch on your contract without telling you? I sure didn't order it. I'm just saying that I read some of these threads about people possibly getting burned and all it takes is reading the fine print and your contract.
Jumbo is on the right track and maybe we can sort through this.
