Premier

Hi, I've been researching a lot over the past few days about the braking system of the tC and its similarities to the GT-S braking system. From everything I've found, they are identical.

My story: I wanted to change the rotors and brake pads on my tC with exact sized replacements without the expense of a big brake kit. I ran into some problems, mainly that virtually no one has aftermarket parts for us right now. After speaking with a representative at Brembo, I was told certain specifications would need to be met for the switch to go smoothly. The problem was, no one had these numbers for the tC; not Brembo, and not even Toyota, Scion, or TRD. They said they had not done the research and development on it yet.

The parts I want to purchase:

http://www.buybrakes.com/store/FS00068-SM
http://www.buybrakes.com/store/RS00039-SM
http://www.buybrakes.com/store/HB328-685
http://www.buybrakes.com/store/HB329-543

I spoke to StopTech, creators of a GT-S big brake kit and a tC big brake kit (the only one so far I believe). These specifications are compiled from representatives I talked to at StopTech and Race Technologies (Biggest Brembo distributor in U.S.):

Celica GT-S:
Front:
Disk Diameter 275mm (10.8")
Nominal Thickness 25mm
Height 49.3mm
Minimum Thickness 23mm
Bolt Pattern 5mm x 100mm

Rear:
Disk Diameter 10.6"
Nominal Thickness 9mm
Height 55.9mm
Minimal Thickness 7.5mm
Bolt Pattern 5mm x 100mm

Center Hole Diameter 55mm (Front? Rear? Not sure)


Scion tC:
Front:
Disk Diameter 275mm x 25mm (10.83" x 0.98")
Nominal Thickness 25mm
Outer Diameter 275mm
Disk Card Thickness 23mm
Bolt Pattern 5mm x 100mm

Rear:
Disk Diameter 269mm x 9mm (10.59" x 0.35")
Nominal Thickness 9mm
Disk Card Thickness 7.5mm
Outer Diameter 269mm x 9mm
Bolt Pattern 5mm x 100mm
Inner Diameter of Drum in Hat 173mm when new (Parking Brake)

The pads are also identical:
They both have Pad Shape D817 and Pad Thickness of 17.4mm in the Front
Pad Shape D823 and Pad Thickness of 13.8mm in the Rear

For some reason they couldn't provide some numbers for one that they could for the other, but the numbers match and the people I talked to at StopTech said they are identical and parts made for GT-S should fit on the tC. Brembo, on the other hand said they will not fit after the lady inquired their engineers for two hours. I do not believe they are making correct assumptions because they do not have the numbers StopTech has after researching about the car's brakes. If TRD or Scion doesn't even have them, how would Brembo?

So there you have it, I'm still waiting on a second response from Race Technologies, but everything I've found leads me to believe the systems are identical. Hopefully some people find this helpful.

apexjr

You know that blue turbo TC with the gold rims had a big brake kit, from/for a Celica GTS. My guess is you are 100% correct. Are you looking at just increasing the size of the rotor or what? I am also thinking along that line. SS lines and bigger rotors and better pads. Then wheels and tires should bring the car down from 60 in 110feet or less.

Premier

I don't have that much money so I'm not going to increase the rotor size, just replace the stock ones with the brembo sport slotted ones, and get better brake pads. The thing about increasing rotor size though is, PowerSlot says: All Power Slot Plus brake kits require the use of larger diameter wheels (they make big brake kits for GT-S).
What are benefits of SS lines?

apexjr

Personally I have a MR2 Turbo with x-drilled rotors and I didn't get them for performance but rather for looks. They may or may not perform better, its hard to tell. Though when I switched to some good pads it made a big ___ difference. The SS lines on my MR2 made the pedal feels much better. I am definately doing this on all my cars as I don't like soft pedals.

I would investigate larger rotors and makes sure they won't fit under the 17" wheels we have now. Also the celica gts came with 16's stock right? I would highly recommend that route over the x-drilled rotors route alone, as it's just pure physics then.

Keep me posted,

Richard

apexjr

Personally I have a MR2 Turbo with x-drilled rotors and I didn't get them for performance but rather for looks. They may or may not perform better, its hard to tell. Though when I switched to some good pads it made a big ___ difference. The SS lines on my MR2 made the pedal feels much better. I am definately doing this on all my cars as I don't like soft pedals.

I would investigate larger rotors and makes sure they won't fit under the 17" wheels we have now. Also the celica gts came with 16's stock right? I would highly recommend that route over the x-drilled rotors route alone, as it's just pure physics then.

Keep me posted,

Richard

apexjr

Personally I have a MR2 Turbo with x-drilled rotors and I didn't get them for performance but rather for looks. They may or may not perform better, its hard to tell. Though when I switched to some good pads it made a big ___ difference. The SS lines on my MR2 made the pedal feels much better. I am definately doing this on all my cars as I don't like soft pedals.

I would investigate larger rotors and makes sure they won't fit under the 17" wheels we have now. Also the celica gts came with 16's stock right? I would highly recommend that route over the x-drilled rotors route alone, as it's just pure physics then.

Keep me posted,

Richard

JasonH

SS lines expand less so more braking force is transmitted from the master cylinder to the wheel cylinders.

Slotted or drilled rotors will not decrease stopping distances or increase braking force, they will do the opposite. Both decrease braking surface. Drilling increases heat, gas and dust dissipation. Slotting increases dust and gas dissipation slightly, but mainly increases the pad wear rate by shaving off a little pad all the time to guard against pad glazing. Both decrease the strength of the rotor. Virtually all drilled rotors will develop stress cracks given enough time, even OEM rotors like Porsche uses. Many race cars use solid vented rotors because they are more resistant to warping or breaking and the disadvantages of slotting or drilling outweigh the advantages.

Things that will decrease stopping distances (from best value to worst
Better brake pads (like Hawks)
Bigger rotors with OEM calipers (look at AEM's kit for the Celica, it includes brackets to use stock calipers with bigger two-piece rotors)
Biggger rotors with bigger calipers and pads

Premier

Thank you for trying to bang that concept into my head for the second time Jason lol.
I wouldn't mind having gold colored Brembo brakes though
You're right, I guess I could save up money to buy:
http://www.buybrakes.com/store/29-540
http://www.buybrakes.com/store/29-610

I thought I would have to change rims and tires, but I just saw on the buybrakes website:

*17" or larger wheel recommended for installation. Call AEM for wheel sizing information.
† Four piston caliper Big Rotor Replacement Kit requires the use of 17" or larger wheels on all vehicles.
We have 17" rims!

Sin

Alright, I' not a happy camper.

Everything was going fine today with my install...but the rear brake pads for the Celica-gts did not work on the car I thought I had read that they would work. Now I need to find brake pads for the rear, the part #'s matched and everything so I am hestiant to purchase some Rotex Pads for the GT-S because they might just not work

Everything else was fine, but I dont have my tC right now...Why :?: ...cause for some reason when we tried & re-tried to bleed the brakes...all the brake pedal does is go straigt the floorboard. No leaks, check everything. It has something to do with the ABS system we believe, but dont of yet...but pretty certain

It sounds like there are air pockets in it somewhere...they are going to call the dealer in the morning...Any ideas :?:

ScionBandit

uh oh???
ill check it out myself and my master tech at work tomorrow for you

at least someone tried it and posted results

Sin

Thanx, The brakes "barely"work...super spongy. Went out for a slow short dirve and then pushed real hard. The ABS would kcik in and then the pedal would go to the floor again.

ScionBandit

hmmm...dunno wut u did, but ill see who may know something i don't
im not the brake expert unfortunately

ScionBandit

okay...not sure wut u did when bleeding the brake system, but it sounds like u didn't do it correctly.....u shouldn't have had ne problem if it was done rite

now im not sayin u do'nt know wut ur doin, but the conclusion from my shop foreman is u mite have done something wrong

just our thoughts though, i can't see the car, so we can't give a proper resolution

Kev_the_rev

i know wilwood has some in prototype right now.. because I've seen a few show tC's that have them... I would invest in those!

ScionBandit

u can get AEM disc, and keep the stock caliper and wutnot....

BoostedBlueToyotas

===> It sounds like there are air pockets in it somewhere...they are going to call the dealer in the morning...Any ideas


1). Did you bleed the master brake cylinder dry, if so, then
you have trouble. I would guess that you got air into the
ABS actuator. Not sure how to get it out, all my Toyota
manuals for my other cars dont specify any procedures
for bleeding brakes, and I dont have a manual for the
Tc. I have never ran into the problem with either my MR2 or my alltrac (both ABS equipped)

#2 - Do you have to get a new Master brake cylinder for
the upgrade?

Tim Plessing
Columbia, MD

1990 celica turbo alltrac - blue/blue cloth - 152K - Under restoration
1993 MR2 turbo - blue/black leather - 57K
2005 Scion Tc - 5 spd, SAB

tckurt

tirerack.com has the brembro brake rotors made specifically for the tC

ScionBandit

ye, but r they bigger brakes or same size...

Sin

All fixed The problem was the brakes had to be "Power bled" and only the dealership had the equipment to do it. Luckily I was not far away from the dealer and luckily the issue was fixed. They just basically power flushed it to get the air pockets out. So the air in the lines was the problem. Phew, Only problem was the rear pads, just not compatiable :? I'm workin on this. www.newscionparts.com has Rotex pads for it, but I have yet to call to reaffirm that. Thanx for all the pointers...sin