tC will not be a COMPELTE car without these factory options!
06-22-2005, 10:15 AM
#61
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I can't believe I read this whole _____ fest.
The tC could easily been rebadged as a Lexus with some minor improvements.
Should they offer the said options? Yes. They are options people! I have seen many older people driving Scions, tC's being some of them. The car looks like it should cost much more and have a different badge on it. Those people here complaining about that sound like they are so protective about "their" world. They do not want to hear other opinions. Instead it is their way or the highway.
Should there be an aluminum fuel door? Sure as an option. I would never buy it. Looks tacky.
Oh that's my opinion. Just wanted to give the bashers here a heads up about that.
Can any of you even envision if Toyota had decided to release this car as a Lexus? It would have blown the G35 out of the water. There would have been changes to it that would guarantee market share would belong to Lexus.
Be happy with the vehicles you have. Customize them to your liking and stop bashing others with different opinions.
The tC could easily been rebadged as a Lexus with some minor improvements.
Should they offer the said options? Yes. They are options people! I have seen many older people driving Scions, tC's being some of them. The car looks like it should cost much more and have a different badge on it. Those people here complaining about that sound like they are so protective about "their" world. They do not want to hear other opinions. Instead it is their way or the highway.
Should there be an aluminum fuel door? Sure as an option. I would never buy it. Looks tacky.
Oh that's my opinion. Just wanted to give the bashers here a heads up about that.
Can any of you even envision if Toyota had decided to release this car as a Lexus? It would have blown the G35 out of the water. There would have been changes to it that would guarantee market share would belong to Lexus.
Be happy with the vehicles you have. Customize them to your liking and stop bashing others with different opinions.
06-22-2005, 10:40 AM
#62
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Originally Posted by mrbridge
To have those extras available as options or standards requires money. Money for research, money for testing. To have this super deal that we have before us, things had to be sacrificed. People now are doing these things as aftermarket additions with little trouble.
Bottom line:
Those that want it are going out and getting it.
Bottom line:
Those that want it are going out and getting it.
Any time you buy a car, you can put these little things in. Some people want this or that for their car and you can get them if you want. Granted they are not factory installed, but you don't need to get some bs "package" like:
Originally Posted by Dregur
Like to get a sunroof, you had to get the 6 CD changer AND the 16" alloy wheels. Quite annoying.
06-22-2005, 03:16 PM
#65
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I think a lot of you are missing the biggest element to this entire thread's argument (look at the thread's title). Adding options at the factory level would be a mistake. With the way that Toyota's factory line works (as it's one of the most efficient manufacturing lines out there), they would have to bring any options to the floor and install as the car was passing by. Anymore then a certain number would increase cost and decrease efficiency.
Remember, most of these options can already be, and will be added, at the dealership level (they're not just on the official Scion website). Not only will the dealer add them (at cost of course, sometimes higher than usual), but they will also be covered by the warranty (at least, that's what Lake City Toyota told me). Mucking up the factory level stuff is more than just "adding options" it's adding more cogs to the wheel when there doesn't need to be.
-The Grinman :D
Remember, most of these options can already be, and will be added, at the dealership level (they're not just on the official Scion website). Not only will the dealer add them (at cost of course, sometimes higher than usual), but they will also be covered by the warranty (at least, that's what Lake City Toyota told me). Mucking up the factory level stuff is more than just "adding options" it's adding more cogs to the wheel when there doesn't need to be.
-The Grinman :D
06-22-2005, 03:36 PM
#66
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Leather can be installed at dealers easily. I dont even like leather.
Bose audio is overated and expensive. That's a fact. Audio can also be changed easily aftermarket.
HID lights can be put into the car, but no dealer will do it, due to NHSTA law. I really think Scion should consider having this as an option. It makes driving at night much more enjoyable and it's safer. You really have to drive a car with HID yourself to know what I mean. Even the Celica had the option for HID lighting. More and more cars are coming with HID, so it shouldnt add much overhead cost.
Navigation is nice to, and adding an aftermarket (while cheaper) lacks the integration that can only be found in an oem installation. But it would be an expensive option. It's rumored that navigation may be found as on option in the next gen civic.
It seems like you guys dont want any changes on the TC. A reason why the TC is so successful is because it offers things that arent available for its car class (fancy glass roof, side mirror turn signals, mp3 head unit, ...). Scion can continue to keep the TC on the top of its game by adding options like HID and Navi.
I honestly dont think adding these options would affect the bottom line too much either.
Bose audio is overated and expensive. That's a fact. Audio can also be changed easily aftermarket.
HID lights can be put into the car, but no dealer will do it, due to NHSTA law. I really think Scion should consider having this as an option. It makes driving at night much more enjoyable and it's safer. You really have to drive a car with HID yourself to know what I mean. Even the Celica had the option for HID lighting. More and more cars are coming with HID, so it shouldnt add much overhead cost.
Navigation is nice to, and adding an aftermarket (while cheaper) lacks the integration that can only be found in an oem installation. But it would be an expensive option. It's rumored that navigation may be found as on option in the next gen civic.
It seems like you guys dont want any changes on the TC. A reason why the TC is so successful is because it offers things that arent available for its car class (fancy glass roof, side mirror turn signals, mp3 head unit, ...). Scion can continue to keep the TC on the top of its game by adding options like HID and Navi.
I honestly dont think adding these options would affect the bottom line too much either.
06-22-2005, 05:02 PM
#67
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The reson Scion doesn't include all these options.....PRICE!!!
I don't mean that the actuall upgrades will cost that much, its the fact that they would have to support more cars.
Example: Scion only has to build 2 cars, one with side airbags and one without. Painting the exterior different collors is easy.
If you add a whole bunch of options to the car you have to supprot more 'makes' of each car thus making your manufacturing cost way higher which then adds to the total cost of every vehicle.
The only way scion will add and feature is if it becomes standard. Everything else they might as well leave to the aftermarket community. Withought that aftermarket community there would be no draw to the Scion for being custimizable.
I don't mean that the actuall upgrades will cost that much, its the fact that they would have to support more cars.
Example: Scion only has to build 2 cars, one with side airbags and one without. Painting the exterior different collors is easy.
If you add a whole bunch of options to the car you have to supprot more 'makes' of each car thus making your manufacturing cost way higher which then adds to the total cost of every vehicle.
The only way scion will add and feature is if it becomes standard. Everything else they might as well leave to the aftermarket community. Withought that aftermarket community there would be no draw to the Scion for being custimizable.
06-22-2005, 05:20 PM
#68
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corey415, i agree with you again. I never said add these option at factory level. What I said was make them available to people who wants them. Make them as a la carte options. Leather, NAV and Xenon will not cost to develop. people on this post forget that all these parts are already made for other Toyotas.
For god sake, the tC itself is based on the Euro Avensis, nearly all its parts except the body is lifted from other Toyotas (lexus). Leather in most compact non luxury cars can be sold as little as $800, I don't dislike them, I want them because they make car look better in my opinion. Xenon & Nav, well I don't want to offend anyone but once you try it most will find them very helpful and nice to have. I mean who wanted to pay for ABS brakes back when they are first introdued, I mean people have been use regular brake so why change? Well because the benefits far exceeded the cost. While xenon and NAV have not yet proved themselves to be necesscities but as cost continue to come down, consumers will shift from nice to have to must have. This is the same logic with everything, DVD player, now DVD burners.
Again for those who don't want them that's ok, no one said thse options have to be added to EVERY tC. Those of us who wants us only want them to be made avilable because we are the consumers have these NEEDS may be not you but we do so respect that. TC is an amazing car for the money, I dare to say it's one of the best cars out there for the money I can't think another car this good for the money. So it's ok to compare to Mazda3 or other direct competitors. Bottomline is if tC is continue to be successful and continue to get YOU to buy them it has to improve and change.
Have you ever heard of change is good? If you don't change you fall behind?
For god sake, the tC itself is based on the Euro Avensis, nearly all its parts except the body is lifted from other Toyotas (lexus). Leather in most compact non luxury cars can be sold as little as $800, I don't dislike them, I want them because they make car look better in my opinion. Xenon & Nav, well I don't want to offend anyone but once you try it most will find them very helpful and nice to have. I mean who wanted to pay for ABS brakes back when they are first introdued, I mean people have been use regular brake so why change? Well because the benefits far exceeded the cost. While xenon and NAV have not yet proved themselves to be necesscities but as cost continue to come down, consumers will shift from nice to have to must have. This is the same logic with everything, DVD player, now DVD burners.
Again for those who don't want them that's ok, no one said thse options have to be added to EVERY tC. Those of us who wants us only want them to be made avilable because we are the consumers have these NEEDS may be not you but we do so respect that. TC is an amazing car for the money, I dare to say it's one of the best cars out there for the money I can't think another car this good for the money. So it's ok to compare to Mazda3 or other direct competitors. Bottomline is if tC is continue to be successful and continue to get YOU to buy them it has to improve and change.
Have you ever heard of change is good? If you don't change you fall behind?
06-22-2005, 05:30 PM
#69
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Originally Posted by spydersocal
corey415, i agree with you again. I never said add these option at factory level. What I said was make them available to people who wants them. Make them as a la carte options. Leather, NAV and Xenon will not cost to develop. people on this post forget that all these parts are already made for other Toyotas.
Want Xenon and leather? Do you also take some Toyota/Lexus, seats/lights and duct tape them to the tC? No, you need to make them for the tC. Even if the technology has already been developed a hundred times over for other Toyotas, you still need to test it, fit it, supply repair information, and make upgrades easy. That takes R&D and $$$.
06-22-2005, 05:40 PM
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dmikon, neither you or I are manufactoring expert so may be we should both take a step back. But speaking of logic, what you said may be true to some degree, it's just a guess. Here's my take so please hear me out, first of all, Toyota is a huge company with tons of resources, heck there are talks of Toyota buying GM! Second, these options are NOT anything fancy, the most costly is the technology part, once you have it and to fit them is much cheaper. Toyota has the muscle to do it if they want to. They can manage to fit a GLASS roof onto a sub 20K car, you are going to tell me it would cost them R&D to find a place for NAV?
Hell, Toyota can farm the projects out to suppliers if they want and get the exact fit parts in. Look at all the stereo sold at bestbuy from Pioneer, etc they will tell you exactly which car it will fit...you are making a big deal out of fitting some very basic things...
If I was to say boy why can't they toss the Lexus SC430's V8 into this car, then yes there will be major chanllenges..emission certification for the class, re-certification of crash test with govn't, these are real cost in designing a car... add and lift a part from one car to another is done all the time...look around Lexus ES is Camry, Landcrusier is LX470....they been doing this for sometimes now.. read up you might learn something.
Hell, Toyota can farm the projects out to suppliers if they want and get the exact fit parts in. Look at all the stereo sold at bestbuy from Pioneer, etc they will tell you exactly which car it will fit...you are making a big deal out of fitting some very basic things...
If I was to say boy why can't they toss the Lexus SC430's V8 into this car, then yes there will be major chanllenges..emission certification for the class, re-certification of crash test with govn't, these are real cost in designing a car... add and lift a part from one car to another is done all the time...look around Lexus ES is Camry, Landcrusier is LX470....they been doing this for sometimes now.. read up you might learn something.
06-22-2005, 06:05 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by spydersocal
dmikon, neither you or I are manufactoring expert so may be we should both take a step back. But speaking of logic, what you said may be true to some degree, it's just a guess. Here's my take so please hear me out, first of all, Toyota is a huge company with tons of resources, heck there are talks of Toyota buying GM! Second, these options are NOT anything fancy, the most costly is the technology part, once you have it and to fit them is much cheaper. Toyota has the muscle to do it if they want to. They can manage to fit a GLASS roof onto a sub 20K car, you are going to tell me it would cost them R&D to find a place for NAV?
The navigation, realistically, can only be placed in the center. Let's say we follow the IS300 pattern, and give an option to put the navigation above the audio. Where do the A/C vents go? Ok, well, there is a perfect place for navigation right under the audio cover, perfect! Where does the audio go? Two options: some other location (where?) or integrated into the navigation ($$$). How would the car look like without navigation if it's not added at the plant?
Originally Posted by spydersocal
Hell, Toyota can farm the projects out to suppliers if they want and get the exact fit parts in. Look at all the stereo sold at bestbuy from Pioneer, etc they will tell you exactly which car it will fit...you are making a big deal out of fitting some very basic things...
06-22-2005, 06:09 PM
#72
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Hey man, what can I say you should work for Toyota in cost cutting dept. They can figure it out you worry too much. Take a look at the Scion 2005 catalog for the tC green project car, they took out stock pioneer and stuck in a DVD/NAV unit. Enough said.
06-22-2005, 06:15 PM
#73
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Originally Posted by spydersocal
Take a look at the Scion 2005 catalog for the tC green project car, they took out stock pioneer and stuck in a DVD/NAV unit. Enough said.
I don't work in the automotive industry, but I am in the engineering/software field. I know that ANY small thing is 99% of the time only small on the surface. Things are a lot more complex than they seem when it comes to mass production and engineering/R&D.
06-22-2005, 06:15 PM
#74
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lots of people have said the same things over and over here. bottom line, if they do it, great, if not oh well. only option i'd consider is HID's but if they are the 'standard' $1000+ option then probably not. they'd have to be done at the dealer unless they are standard on all cars and that we know is overpriced. ok finished.
06-22-2005, 06:27 PM
#75
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Originally Posted by spydersocal
Hey man, what can I say you should work for Toyota in cost cutting dept. They can figure it out you worry too much. Take a look at the Scion 2005 catalog for the tC green project car, they took out stock pioneer and stuck in a DVD/NAV unit. Enough said.
06-22-2005, 07:10 PM
#77
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Originally Posted by spydersocal
corey415, i agree with you again. I never said add these option at factory level. What I said was make them available to people who wants them. Make them as a la carte options. Leather, NAV and Xenon will not cost to develop. people on this post forget that all these parts are already made for other Toyotas.
For god sake, the tC itself is based on the Euro Avensis, nearly all its parts except the body is lifted from other Toyotas (lexus). Leather in most compact non luxury cars can be sold as little as $800, I don't dislike them, I want them because they make car look better in my opinion. Xenon & Nav, well I don't want to offend anyone but once you try it most will find them very helpful and nice to have. I mean who wanted to pay for ABS brakes back when they are first introdued, I mean people have been use regular brake so why change? Well because the benefits far exceeded the cost. While xenon and NAV have not yet proved themselves to be necesscities but as cost continue to come down, consumers will shift from nice to have to must have. This is the same logic with everything, DVD player, now DVD burners.
Again for those who don't want them that's ok, no one said thse options have to be added to EVERY tC. Those of us who wants us only want them to be made avilable because we are the consumers have these NEEDS may be not you but we do so respect that. TC is an amazing car for the money, I dare to say it's one of the best cars out there for the money I can't think another car this good for the money. So it's ok to compare to Mazda3 or other direct competitors. Bottomline is if tC is continue to be successful and continue to get YOU to buy them it has to improve and change.
Have you ever heard of change is good? If you don't change you fall behind?
For god sake, the tC itself is based on the Euro Avensis, nearly all its parts except the body is lifted from other Toyotas (lexus). Leather in most compact non luxury cars can be sold as little as $800, I don't dislike them, I want them because they make car look better in my opinion. Xenon & Nav, well I don't want to offend anyone but once you try it most will find them very helpful and nice to have. I mean who wanted to pay for ABS brakes back when they are first introdued, I mean people have been use regular brake so why change? Well because the benefits far exceeded the cost. While xenon and NAV have not yet proved themselves to be necesscities but as cost continue to come down, consumers will shift from nice to have to must have. This is the same logic with everything, DVD player, now DVD burners.
Again for those who don't want them that's ok, no one said thse options have to be added to EVERY tC. Those of us who wants us only want them to be made avilable because we are the consumers have these NEEDS may be not you but we do so respect that. TC is an amazing car for the money, I dare to say it's one of the best cars out there for the money I can't think another car this good for the money. So it's ok to compare to Mazda3 or other direct competitors. Bottomline is if tC is continue to be successful and continue to get YOU to buy them it has to improve and change.
Have you ever heard of change is good? If you don't change you fall behind?
If one wants to keep the cost down, just don't pick the options, isn't it simple? Scion is all about customization anyway and the more option that we have, the merrier. I understand we can get aftermarket part, but many will not bother to read the specs and research it or have no time or proper resource to do it. Factory option while higher priced, it did all the research and installation. To many people, that is worth it!
I really hope luxury options available soon!
06-22-2005, 08:08 PM
#78
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Matt, read me posts again I am not complain, it seems to me you are complaining because another person has an opinion. This is a forum it means open talks and discussion. If you don't agree, fine then state your case and make your point but PLEASE don't tell others to "stop complaining". That's none of your business. Why don't you take a break from this post, I would actually like to hear what others has to say. Here's a tip, start your own post or discussion if you are annoyed with this post. Peace, Chill dude!
