Checho

im laying back with my popcorn :D

bB384

When and where did I bash the OP? As far as the intake goes...I may have shown sarcasm but I never stated that the OP was foolish.

Now for considering that the tC and the Civic are of the same genre... Hell no. Honda has always made well handling, fun to drive sport compact cars. They usually come with well designed motors with power. The tC's 2AZ-FE may come with Toyota's version of VTEC but still lacks power, Not to mention the tC's power plant is heavy and lacks power compared to any D, B, or K series motor. Suspension on the tC is lacking too. Civics come with double wishbone suspension, better brakes, and the chassis are way better designed for conering. The tC was desgned inorder to fill in a void in Toyota/Scion's line up. They made a 'pretty' car to customize. Honda has built well handling sport compact cars for the past 20+ years.

Now, Don't assume I'm a Scion bashing Honda lover. I've been messing around with all kinds of cars, (Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans etc...) Not to mention I own a Scion myself and I love it way more than my Honda's and Nissans but I know where my car is beat.


To the OP:
I commend you for trying to make an intake with what you got, but where you failed is that your intake is still un supported, and you are drawing in warm air, at this point you're better with the OEM airbox and a K&N filter. The point of an intake is to get cooler air into the engine as well as have a smooth path for the air to travel.

tCtCtC

WOW.
Well handling 96-00 non SI from the factory?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

yellowxhoodie

iTrader: (16)

im not trying to compare apples to oranges.
obviously the cars are different, you took what i said way to literally.
i was stating that the tc has basically replaced (or is at least the modern day) civic, simply because of all the stupid mods people are doing.
look at ebay, all over you see JDM this and JDM that for a car that isnt the least bit JDM.

and no one seems to realize andrews intake isnt really all that far off from a SRI youd buy for a civic, sure its a little closer to the header but its really not that big of a deal.

oh and P.S., the 2AZ lacks power to D,B, and K series motors?
i dont think so.
you might wanna brush up on your honda stats

bB384

What you fail to notice is that to a certain extent, intake size and the way the air is drawn in does matter. Warm air is less dense and results in the total oppisite of why the intake was modified to begin with.

And I still stand by my comment that Honda motors are better suited for spirited driving. Whats the most power you could extract from a 2AZ naturally aspirated? A stock D series put out 105~130 hp from a weak 1.5~1.6 SOHC, the B series put out 160~200 from a DOHC 1.6~1.8, and K series put out 160~220 from a 2.0 DOHC. Consider the motor's size and power output (not to mention chassis sizeweight and handling capabilities) and the 2AZ is beat. Now if we're talking turbo then the 2AZ can keep up. Stock for stock (tC vs. any Civic) my money would go with the Civic most of the time (drag or around corners). I give Chris Rado mad props for doing what he has been doing with his Time Attack car, Other than him I haven't seen anyone else go toe to toe with Hondas in a field where they've already made their mark (road racing, not drag).

bB384

Don't even try arguing... I'll take your HX and give a tC a run for it's money (if not out handle it). I've seen it done and I have done it myself.

tCtCtC

Do you realize how bad the torque line is on a D, B, or K series? A D series doesn't stand ANYWHERE near a chance against a 2AZ. A B18C5 would be a better match, and that can still go either way, depending on what car it's put into. On a Civic like mine, you need to get new LCA's, and atleast a rear sway bar to try and corner like a stock tC. All I'm trying to push is that the only fair match for a tC from my model line on the Civic would be a 00 Si.

tCtCtC

Oh please. If I took my tC and my HX the tC would run around it. Not only does the tC have a torque line 10x better than my HX and the additional 30 HP, the amount of body roll my Civic has is ridiculous. Keep in mind anything besides an Si didn't come with a rear sway bar. And not to think this matters much to the horsepower, but keep in mind I have VTEC-E, which kicks in at a later time and only allows 1 valve to be opened, instead of of an Ex's normal VTEC.

bB384

That's what you think. Back in my stupid days when I used to canyon race I brought my xB out to the canyons and left a tC in a Canyon he supposedly knew better than I did. And that week I brought a friend's bone stock HX and handed out the same embarssment to the same tC.

tCtCtC

Ok.

I'll still stand by my word on my tC beating my Civic. Keep in mind that the tC has a TRD rear sway bar, and my Civic only has cheap coilovers.

bB384

Well you're local to me, I'm sure you know where Sand Canyon is, that's my old stomping ground. I'll introduce you to my friends and I'll try to find someone to give you a ride in a stock HX through that road.

Domo

iTrader: (3)

Thanks! Yea I found this on the net. Even if I was there, I would rather ripped that crap off then take the picture. Haha or take the picture then ripped that garbage off his ride. Either way, I figured it was perfect for this thread

tCtCtC

Thanks for the offer, but I'll pass.

tCtCtC

And oh, if anyone missed this before, thanks to my impatience, small coupler, and blistered hands, I put the AEM back on and now have a running car after 3 weeks.

Domo

iTrader: (3)

racing pretty much comes down to the driver, not the car

yellowxhoodie

iTrader: (16)

street racing is awesome!

CarbonXe

iTrader: (1)

So a 2AZ making 160/160 out of a 2.4L is better than the K20A which makes 240/160 out of a 2.0L? The K-series is miles better than the 2AZ.
The H22 is way better than the 2AZ. It was making 40 more HP and the same TQ as the 2AZ, out of a smaller motor.
The F20C is better than any 4-cyl Toyota has ever and will ever produce, and that simply cannot be argued.
D series is pushing it. The only one that's worth mentioning, is the D16Z6, and the only reason that was good, was because it was in an 1800lb car.
And I'd honestly say that the B-series is better than the 2AZ. The B18C5R made 200HP out of a 1.8L. That's nearly twice the output per liter. Yes it had less torque, but again, it was used in a much lighter platform, where torque wasn't needed as much.

And for the whole handling thing, it's exactly as Domo said. From the sound of things, the owner of that tC does not know how to drive. Put an equally skilled driver in a tC, and it will out handle a 12 year old Civic DX that has springs softer than melted cheese.

XIEmperorIX

iTrader: (2)

the 2azfe does not come with anything remotely like vtech..it has vvti which is just variable valve timing..nothing special..

the 2zzge (i think that's the right engine code) which is found in the celica gts and previous generation corolla/matrix xrs models has vvtli has what's called lift which is very similar to vtech and Toyota's attempt to replicate it..it's also a motor they don't produce anymore.

Oh and carbon the f20 and f22 are just works of art lol love that motor

rosedaleny806

I'm gonna have to agree with jon, the 2azfe can't nowhere be compared to a K series motor from a honda, even an H22, and these motors are smaller then the 2.4 of the 2az, hell a lot of the motors that honda dishes out does better then the 2azfe and produces more power NA aswell even in a smaller engine 1.6l,1.8l, 2.0l, 2.2l

and as far as VVTI being toyotas VTEC that's wrong. VVTI is toyotas I-Vtec. the VVTLI is toyotas Vtec, 2 different type of engines

Checho

VVT-I spreads out the power through the entire power band unlike Vtec

I feel this thread will become another why Vtec is better than VVTI and get locked soooooo

IBTMFL