What kind of oil do you use in your tC?
03-13-2008, 05:54 AM
#42
Senior Member
Big Sky Scion
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: six-two-six
Posts: 4,120
Multi-grade motor oil
The temperature range the oil is exposed to in most vehicles can be wide, ranging from cold ambient temperatures in the winter before the vehicle is started up to hot operating temperatures when the vehicle is fully warmed up in hot summer weather. A specific oil will have high viscosity when cold and a low viscosity at the engine's operating temperature. The difference in viscosities for any single-grade oil is too large between the extremes of temperature. To bring the difference in viscosities closer together, special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers, or VIs are added to the oil. These additives make the oil a multi-grade motor oil. The idea is to cause the multi-grade oil to have the viscosity of the base number when cold and the viscosity of second number when hot. This enables one type of oil to be generally used all year, and when multi-grades were initially developed, they were frequently described as all-season oil. The viscosity of a multi-grade oil still varies logarithmically with temperature, but the slope representing the change is lessened. This slope representing the change with temperature depends on the nature and amount of the additives to the base oil.
The API/SAE designation for multi-grade oils includes two grade numbers; for example, 10W-30 designates a common multi-grade oil. Historically, the first number associated with the W (again 'W' is for Winter, not Weight) is not rated at any single temperature. The "10W" means that this oil can be pumped by your engine as well as a single-grade SAE 10 oil can be pumped. "5W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "10W". "0W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "5W", and thins less at temperatures above 99°C (210°F). The second number, 30, means that the viscosity of this multi-grade oil at 100°C (212°F) operating temperature corresponds to the viscosity of a single-grade 30 oil at same temperature. The governing SAE standard is called SAE J300. This "classic" method of defining the "W" rating has since been replaced with a more technical test where a "cold crank simulator" is used at increasingly lowered temps. A 0W oil is tested at -35°F, a 5W at -30°F and a 10W is tested at -25°F. The real-world ability of an oil to crank in the cold is diminished soon after put into service. The motor oil grade and viscosity to be used in a given vehicle is specified by the manufacturer of the vehicle (although some modern European cars now make no viscosity requirement), but can vary from country to country when climatic or mpg constraints come into play. Oil circulates through the piston oil rings to cool and lubricate the compression rings. Inside gasoline engines, the top compression ring is exposed to temperatures as high as 500°F.
Many new vehicles are marked to use 5W-20 oil (Honda, Ford, and more recently Toyota) which is not much thinner than a 30 weight oil. Nay-sayers of 20 weight oil's ability to protect engines should note that typically, 30 weight oils shear down into the 20 weight range anyway. Most engine wear is during start-up and warm-up period, where the thinner 20 weight oil's flow is desirable. Overall, lab test results of the wear metals contained in used oil samples show low or lower wear with 20 weight than 30 in applications it is specified for. Some ultra fuel efficient and hybrid vehicles are marked to use 0W-20 oil. For some selective mechanical problems with engines, using a more viscous oil can ameliorate the symptoms, i.e. changing from 5W-20 to 20W-50 may eliminate a knocking noise from the engine but doesn't solve the problem, just "masks" it. Excess amounts of oil consumed by an engine burning it can be addressed by using a thicker oil, a 10W-40 might not burn off as fast compared to a 5W-30. A newer product that also addresses this issue is the "High-Miles" oils now marketed. They tend to be slightly thick for their grades, contain extra additives and seal conditioners. Apparently the formulation of these oils works well in many instances.
The manual may say that, but it's REVERSED.
0w20 vs 5w20 won't hurt your engine, and only HELPS in the colder temps.
The temperature range the oil is exposed to in most vehicles can be wide, ranging from cold ambient temperatures in the winter before the vehicle is started up to hot operating temperatures when the vehicle is fully warmed up in hot summer weather. A specific oil will have high viscosity when cold and a low viscosity at the engine's operating temperature. The difference in viscosities for any single-grade oil is too large between the extremes of temperature. To bring the difference in viscosities closer together, special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers, or VIs are added to the oil. These additives make the oil a multi-grade motor oil. The idea is to cause the multi-grade oil to have the viscosity of the base number when cold and the viscosity of second number when hot. This enables one type of oil to be generally used all year, and when multi-grades were initially developed, they were frequently described as all-season oil. The viscosity of a multi-grade oil still varies logarithmically with temperature, but the slope representing the change is lessened. This slope representing the change with temperature depends on the nature and amount of the additives to the base oil.
The API/SAE designation for multi-grade oils includes two grade numbers; for example, 10W-30 designates a common multi-grade oil. Historically, the first number associated with the W (again 'W' is for Winter, not Weight) is not rated at any single temperature. The "10W" means that this oil can be pumped by your engine as well as a single-grade SAE 10 oil can be pumped. "5W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "10W". "0W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "5W", and thins less at temperatures above 99°C (210°F). The second number, 30, means that the viscosity of this multi-grade oil at 100°C (212°F) operating temperature corresponds to the viscosity of a single-grade 30 oil at same temperature. The governing SAE standard is called SAE J300. This "classic" method of defining the "W" rating has since been replaced with a more technical test where a "cold crank simulator" is used at increasingly lowered temps. A 0W oil is tested at -35°F, a 5W at -30°F and a 10W is tested at -25°F. The real-world ability of an oil to crank in the cold is diminished soon after put into service. The motor oil grade and viscosity to be used in a given vehicle is specified by the manufacturer of the vehicle (although some modern European cars now make no viscosity requirement), but can vary from country to country when climatic or mpg constraints come into play. Oil circulates through the piston oil rings to cool and lubricate the compression rings. Inside gasoline engines, the top compression ring is exposed to temperatures as high as 500°F.
Many new vehicles are marked to use 5W-20 oil (Honda, Ford, and more recently Toyota) which is not much thinner than a 30 weight oil. Nay-sayers of 20 weight oil's ability to protect engines should note that typically, 30 weight oils shear down into the 20 weight range anyway. Most engine wear is during start-up and warm-up period, where the thinner 20 weight oil's flow is desirable. Overall, lab test results of the wear metals contained in used oil samples show low or lower wear with 20 weight than 30 in applications it is specified for. Some ultra fuel efficient and hybrid vehicles are marked to use 0W-20 oil. For some selective mechanical problems with engines, using a more viscous oil can ameliorate the symptoms, i.e. changing from 5W-20 to 20W-50 may eliminate a knocking noise from the engine but doesn't solve the problem, just "masks" it. Excess amounts of oil consumed by an engine burning it can be addressed by using a thicker oil, a 10W-40 might not burn off as fast compared to a 5W-30. A newer product that also addresses this issue is the "High-Miles" oils now marketed. They tend to be slightly thick for their grades, contain extra additives and seal conditioners. Apparently the formulation of these oils works well in many instances.
The manual may say that, but it's REVERSED.
0w20 vs 5w20 won't hurt your engine, and only HELPS in the colder temps.
03-13-2008, 06:10 AM
#45
Senior Member
Big Sky Scion
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: six-two-six
Posts: 4,120
Originally Posted by op07tc
mobil1 5w30 synthetic w/ extended life filter FTA
Not ftw. You should be running 5w20 unless you've hi-po'd your engine.
2006 up are 5w20.
2005 are 5w30.
03-13-2008, 06:19 AM
#47
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by SciontCya
Originally Posted by TinmanTC
Castrol GTX w/ OEM filter every 5K.
Our cars arent high performance enough(stock) to warrent synthetic.
Yall are wasting your $$$.
Our cars arent high performance enough(stock) to warrent synthetic.
Yall are wasting your $$$.
I have read plenty of oil threads..........
edit: One source being a GM engineer...
03-13-2008, 06:45 AM
#48
Senior Member
Big Sky Scion
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: six-two-six
Posts: 4,120
Wow, GM eh?
I've read over 100's of UOAs and there is no doubt that synthetic protects better.
You don't need a hi-Perf engine to benefit.
And, it can go longer between changes.
Ever hear of sludge?
if those who were victims of Toyota's sludgers had been running synth, they likely could have avoided even that bad design.
Do you NEED synth?
No.
Is it better?
Yes indeed.
I've read over 100's of UOAs and there is no doubt that synthetic protects better.
You don't need a hi-Perf engine to benefit.
And, it can go longer between changes.
Ever hear of sludge?
if those who were victims of Toyota's sludgers had been running synth, they likely could have avoided even that bad design.
Do you NEED synth?
No.
Is it better?
Yes indeed.
03-13-2008, 06:48 AM
#49
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ontario, CA
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by TinmanTC
Originally Posted by SciontCya
Originally Posted by TinmanTC
Castrol GTX w/ OEM filter every 5K.
Our cars arent high performance enough(stock) to warrent synthetic.
Yall are wasting your $$$.
Our cars arent high performance enough(stock) to warrent synthetic.
Yall are wasting your $$$.
I have read plenty of oil threads..........
edit: One source being a GM engineer...
People telling you otherwise about the tC needing synthetic oil is pure balony, dino works fine for the tC.
03-13-2008, 06:51 AM
#50
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ontario, CA
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by SciontCya
Wow, GM eh?
I've read over 100's of UOAs and there is no doubt that synthetic protects better.
You don't need a hi-Perf engine to benefit.
And, it can go longer between changes.
Ever hear of sludge?
if those who were victims of Toyota's sludgers had been running synth, they likely could have avoided even that bad design.
Do you NEED synth?
No.
Is it better?
Yes indeed.
I've read over 100's of UOAs and there is no doubt that synthetic protects better.
You don't need a hi-Perf engine to benefit.
And, it can go longer between changes.
Ever hear of sludge?
if those who were victims of Toyota's sludgers had been running synth, they likely could have avoided even that bad design.
Do you NEED synth?
No.
Is it better?
Yes indeed.
You have to think about it this way, alot of people like to just change their synthetic oil every 3K miles
thinking the more frequent oil changes the better, synthetic doesn't fully do it's job until it hits 4.5K or so, dino oil is $1.25 a quart....synthetic is $5-6 a quart....like I said before, our engines do not justify synthetic. as long as you do frequent oil changes on dino oil, nothing exceeding over 4K, you'll be fine, don't forget to change that filter.
03-13-2008, 06:54 AM
#51
Senior Member
Big Sky Scion
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: six-two-six
Posts: 4,120
Who said needs?
I said it's better and it is.
To be dumb enough to say you use it in one car and not the other is a laughable contradiction.
Your tC benefits the same ways as the G35 does, period.
You also fail to mention extended drain intervals.
Don't talk like you're an expert when you omit such basic truths.
Any car can run on dino, they'll run better and last longer on quality synth, all things being equal.
Do what you like v
I said it's better and it is.
To be dumb enough to say you use it in one car and not the other is a laughable contradiction.
Your tC benefits the same ways as the G35 does, period.
You also fail to mention extended drain intervals.
Don't talk like you're an expert when you omit such basic truths.
Any car can run on dino, they'll run better and last longer on quality synth, all things being equal.
Do what you like v
03-13-2008, 07:00 AM
#52
Senior Member
Big Sky Scion
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: six-two-six
Posts: 4,120
Toyota "sludgers" failed on dino even with low-mileage changes.
They lost big on that - look it up.
You can't say it's better for one engine and not another.
I also never said to change RP or M1 at 3k intervals - that is indeed a waste of money and resources.
They lost big on that - look it up.
You can't say it's better for one engine and not another.
I also never said to change RP or M1 at 3k intervals - that is indeed a waste of money and resources.
03-13-2008, 07:06 AM
#53
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by SciontCya
Wow, GM eh?
I've read over 100's of UOAs and there is no doubt that synthetic protects better.
You don't need a hi-Perf engine to benefit.
And, it can go longer between changes.
Ever hear of sludge?
if those who were victims of Toyota's sludgers had been running synth, they likely could have avoided even that bad design.
Do you NEED synth?
No.
Is it better?
Yes indeed.
I've read over 100's of UOAs and there is no doubt that synthetic protects better.
You don't need a hi-Perf engine to benefit.
And, it can go longer between changes.
Ever hear of sludge?
if those who were victims of Toyota's sludgers had been running synth, they likely could have avoided even that bad design.
Do you NEED synth?
No.
Is it better?
Yes indeed.
From the research Ive done, sure you dont need Hi perf to benefit from synth, but you need a hi perf motor to actually "need" synthetic.
Using synthetic can make you go longer on an oil change. Sure. Non issue for me though since I change it out at 5K.
Yes, I have heard of sludge.
Anyway, once again, UOA's from toyota 4 cyl with GTX post great results.(as with most 4 bangers, honda, mazda etc).
Thats enough for me. Do as you wish, but GTX is exellent oil and is hardly "laughable".
03-13-2008, 07:06 AM
#54
Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ontario, CA
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by SciontCya
Who said needs?
I said it's better and it is.
To be dumb enough to say you use it in one car and not the other is a laughable contradiction.
Your tC benefits the same ways as the G35 does, period.
You also fail to mention extended drain intervals.
Don't talk like you're an expert when you omit such basic truths.
Any car can run on dino, they'll run better and last longer on quality synth, all things being equal.
Do what you like v
I said it's better and it is.
To be dumb enough to say you use it in one car and not the other is a laughable contradiction.
Your tC benefits the same ways as the G35 does, period.
You also fail to mention extended drain intervals.
Don't talk like you're an expert when you omit such basic truths.
Any car can run on dino, they'll run better and last longer on quality synth, all things being equal.
Do what you like v
Don't get mad when someone is giving you their opinion, I do appreciate the compliment about my "talking like an expert", really hits the soft heart.
Interesting enough this isn't my field of work, but I like to keep my cars in tip-top shape
See yaaa
03-13-2008, 04:22 PM
#57
Senior Member
Big Sky Scion
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: six-two-six
Posts: 4,120
Originally Posted by arkenzo
Originally Posted by SciontCya
Who said needs?
I said it's better and it is.
To be dumb enough to say you use it in one car and not the other is a laughable contradiction.
Your tC benefits the same ways as the G35 does, period.
You also fail to mention extended drain intervals.
Don't talk like you're an expert when you omit such basic truths.
Any car can run on dino, they'll run better and last longer on quality synth, all things being equal.
Do what you like v
I said it's better and it is.
To be dumb enough to say you use it in one car and not the other is a laughable contradiction.
Your tC benefits the same ways as the G35 does, period.
You also fail to mention extended drain intervals.
Don't talk like you're an expert when you omit such basic truths.
Any car can run on dino, they'll run better and last longer on quality synth, all things being equal.
Do what you like v
Don't get mad when someone is giving you their opinion, I do appreciate the compliment about my "talking like an expert", really hits the soft heart.
Interesting enough this isn't my field of work, but I like to keep my cars in tip-top shape
See yaaa You come in and tell people they're wasting their money, and they're not.
So, use what you want, and base that on whatever data you like, but give the same respect to others that you want, that's all.
I used GTX for years, then M1 came out. Used that for years too.
Now, I use either GC or RP.
Catch you at Jiffy Lube
03-13-2008, 04:34 PM
#58
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Milpitas
Posts: 1,783
lol I too use synthetic, and it just feels better. Maybe its me but redline made my car a bit more quiet and smoother in idle. and the stupid manual does have typos. says our car has 3 cats..... yet the picture right above contradicts it since it shows where exactly the 2 cats are. and im with sciontcya on this, you guys though shuldnt be so immature and get mad on the internet, like callin him a son of a B*tch lol no point in showing yur tough over the internet.
03-13-2008, 05:04 PM
#60
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 104
TinmanTC: What a poor attitude you have.. "Our cars arent high performance enough(stock) to warrent synthetic."
Guess what: There's this thing called personal preference. Perhaps they have brand loyalty to mobile 1 syn, or Royal Purple, or even AMSOIL. Regardless of their reasoning, if people want to put synthetic in their tCs, it shouldn't chap your áss!
Guess what: There's this thing called personal preference. Perhaps they have brand loyalty to mobile 1 syn, or Royal Purple, or even AMSOIL. Regardless of their reasoning, if people want to put synthetic in their tCs, it shouldn't chap your áss!