Best Autocross Suspension?
07-26-2011 | 02:52 AM
#203
I get fuel starvation on longer hard corners with up to a half tank. I just run 3/4 tank at events to make sure.
The back end is going to be loose with the SS-Ps and the dg bar (That is what I run). If the surface is bumpy, then the stiffer rear sway will definitely make it skitter around more too.
Here is how I run my car:
Rear dampers full stiff
Front dampers 5 clicks down from full stiff
DG rear sway set on full stiff
Front camber is normally set on the street to -1.5 degrees. I set the camber plates to max negative at events. This gets them to about -2.75 degrees and induces a decent amount of toe, which makes it turn in very quickly.
Rear camber is set to -1.25 degrees and 0 toe.
The Falken 912's are only moderately so so in any street driving (worst all season I have ever driven in snow...even worse than the stock potenzas) and will not do well at all on an autox course. If you plan to run many events you should find some good summer tires. The 912's will chunk out, have softer sidewalls, low grip, etc.
The back end is going to be loose with the SS-Ps and the dg bar (That is what I run). If the surface is bumpy, then the stiffer rear sway will definitely make it skitter around more too.
Here is how I run my car:
Rear dampers full stiff
Front dampers 5 clicks down from full stiff
DG rear sway set on full stiff
Front camber is normally set on the street to -1.5 degrees. I set the camber plates to max negative at events. This gets them to about -2.75 degrees and induces a decent amount of toe, which makes it turn in very quickly.
Rear camber is set to -1.25 degrees and 0 toe.
The Falken 912's are only moderately so so in any street driving (worst all season I have ever driven in snow...even worse than the stock potenzas) and will not do well at all on an autox course. If you plan to run many events you should find some good summer tires. The 912's will chunk out, have softer sidewalls, low grip, etc.
...i need a little bit of help, im going to be tracking my car soon and i was just wondering what alignment settings would you recommend for the track? or do you think i'll do fine with the stock alignament specs?
09-09-2011 | 05:49 PM
#204
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,731
From: Minneapolis, MN
Sorry for the late response, but I dont come here often any longer.
You can run with the stock settings, but it is not optimal. Some negative camber will not only improve grip, but will prevent you from rolling the tires over as badly and killing the outside edge. On a car you drive every day, about -1.5 degrees of camber up front still does ok as far as tire wear, especially if you rotate them often. I would use less in the back, since you really want to get the front to grip more to reduce understeer, and since the fronts are going to roll over more on you anyways. So I would say -1.25 to -1.5 up front and about -1 degree in the rear. You can easilly get that rear setting without any new parts. For the front, you may need camber bolts, coilovers with camber plates, etc.
If you have an adjustable rear sway, run it on full stiff. This will help a lot with understeer.
Just remember, that if you do a lot to reduce understeer, the car is going to be more prone to snap oversteer. IF you are not used to driving a looser setup, take it easy at first until you learn it. Be careful with lifting the throttle quickly mid corner, etc.
Also, especially on all seasons, but still so on summer street tires, run higher pressures at first. Mark the edges of the tires with chalk and see how far the tires are rolling over. Reduce pressure to get them wearing right to the arrows on the tread edge.
Be sure to change out the brake fluid with something that is rated for the higher temp. If not, you risk boiling it at 100mph during a hard stop and having no brakes at all.
You can run with the stock settings, but it is not optimal. Some negative camber will not only improve grip, but will prevent you from rolling the tires over as badly and killing the outside edge. On a car you drive every day, about -1.5 degrees of camber up front still does ok as far as tire wear, especially if you rotate them often. I would use less in the back, since you really want to get the front to grip more to reduce understeer, and since the fronts are going to roll over more on you anyways. So I would say -1.25 to -1.5 up front and about -1 degree in the rear. You can easilly get that rear setting without any new parts. For the front, you may need camber bolts, coilovers with camber plates, etc.
If you have an adjustable rear sway, run it on full stiff. This will help a lot with understeer.
Just remember, that if you do a lot to reduce understeer, the car is going to be more prone to snap oversteer. IF you are not used to driving a looser setup, take it easy at first until you learn it. Be careful with lifting the throttle quickly mid corner, etc.
Also, especially on all seasons, but still so on summer street tires, run higher pressures at first. Mark the edges of the tires with chalk and see how far the tires are rolling over. Reduce pressure to get them wearing right to the arrows on the tread edge.
Be sure to change out the brake fluid with something that is rated for the higher temp. If not, you risk boiling it at 100mph during a hard stop and having no brakes at all.
09-14-2011 | 12:43 AM
#205
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 774
I autocross my tC in Street Touring class.
The very first mod I did was a big fat rear antisway bar. Buy DG Spec or Hotchkis Sport.
Rear antisway is probably the best thing you can do for handling- and it doesn't make the car ride harshly!
I was competitive with that, and Dunlop Star Spec tires that I bought used.
Currently, the car has Koni Yellow damper inserts in front and shocks in rear Ground Control coil over sleeves w/ 700lb rear and 400lb front
The alignment is helped with camber bolts set to the most(about -2) and a slight toe out. I also backed off the camber in the rear, since it increases when you lower the rear. Not so much with front struts.
I have a fresh set of Star Specs. They are the best all around summer tires. Hankook RS3's and Kumho XS's are awesome in the dry, but suck in the rain.
For autocross pressures, on 225/45/17, I run 38 front/48 rear. That's excessive, but within safe ranges for these tires.
I also disconnected the front sway bar last weekend, and it helps rotation -for autocross. The course was on a bumpy lot, and on a bumpy sweeper, I bottomed out briefly. Don't do this unless you have the spring rates to support it.
I just finished a season in one club, where I ended in 2nd by 0.33 point. That was because I overdrive on one event. It was that close.
There are three more in SCCA. I have a good lead. Fingers are crossed.
Do autocross. You'll be hooked after the first event!
The very first mod I did was a big fat rear antisway bar. Buy DG Spec or Hotchkis Sport.
Rear antisway is probably the best thing you can do for handling- and it doesn't make the car ride harshly!
I was competitive with that, and Dunlop Star Spec tires that I bought used.
Currently, the car has Koni Yellow damper inserts in front and shocks in rear Ground Control coil over sleeves w/ 700lb rear and 400lb front
The alignment is helped with camber bolts set to the most(about -2) and a slight toe out. I also backed off the camber in the rear, since it increases when you lower the rear. Not so much with front struts.
I have a fresh set of Star Specs. They are the best all around summer tires. Hankook RS3's and Kumho XS's are awesome in the dry, but suck in the rain.
For autocross pressures, on 225/45/17, I run 38 front/48 rear. That's excessive, but within safe ranges for these tires.
I also disconnected the front sway bar last weekend, and it helps rotation -for autocross. The course was on a bumpy lot, and on a bumpy sweeper, I bottomed out briefly. Don't do this unless you have the spring rates to support it.
I just finished a season in one club, where I ended in 2nd by 0.33 point. That was because I overdrive on one event. It was that close.
There are three more in SCCA. I have a good lead. Fingers are crossed.
Do autocross. You'll be hooked after the first event!
09-15-2011 | 10:40 PM
#207
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 176
Nice to see this thread's still alive. I think I found it awhile back but just lurked. Really awesome thread! Good to see other TC autoX out there. Aren't that many out there. I think I've seen only one other TC in LA/SD autoX practice events.
Haven't done much to my TC these days.
Running progress rear sway, htechs and dunlop star specs.
Tires were the best investment ever, I was running stock tires at first and wasted those in no time since I was a total noob.
Haven't autox in a year or so, but I kinda miss it. I take advantage of the indoor go karting when I can. Cone smashing ftw! Nothing quite like it.
Painters tape and Turtle Wax Bug & Tar remover are a must for keeping those cone streaks off the car! Got that good tip from an autoXer that saw me furiously scrubbing.... I think i gave up at some point, I still have streaks on my sideboard and It's been a year, lol.
Looking for coilovers because I hate the drop on my h-techs.
Gripking how have the d2's been? I saw your review, but it's been a couple more months so just wondering how they've been holding up. I've been eyeing those or the tein ss-p's for a while now.
Haven't done much to my TC these days.
Running progress rear sway, htechs and dunlop star specs.
Tires were the best investment ever, I was running stock tires at first and wasted those in no time since I was a total noob.
Haven't autox in a year or so, but I kinda miss it. I take advantage of the indoor go karting when I can. Cone smashing ftw! Nothing quite like it.
Painters tape and Turtle Wax Bug & Tar remover are a must for keeping those cone streaks off the car! Got that good tip from an autoXer that saw me furiously scrubbing.... I think i gave up at some point, I still have streaks on my sideboard and It's been a year, lol.
Looking for coilovers because I hate the drop on my h-techs.
Gripking how have the d2's been? I saw your review, but it's been a couple more months so just wondering how they've been holding up. I've been eyeing those or the tein ss-p's for a while now.
09-16-2011 | 02:18 AM
#208
Senior Member
SL Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 774
I thought I responded before...
We have no less than FOUR Scions that I know of regularly auto crossing in illinois:
Yours truly '06 tC
My students
'06 xB (he's a faster driver than you think)
'09 tC RS 5.0 races near Champaign
LtBlu tC driven my a future husband and wife. They are on their 2nd event. I think they're hooked.
When I started in '07, I raced an '06 xA, and the only other Scion I raced against in 4 years was a nice tC in driving school in '08. -until this spring!
We have no less than FOUR Scions that I know of regularly auto crossing in illinois:
Yours truly '06 tC
My students
'06 xB (he's a faster driver than you think)
'09 tC RS 5.0 races near Champaign
LtBlu tC driven my a future husband and wife. They are on their 2nd event. I think they're hooked.
When I started in '07, I raced an '06 xA, and the only other Scion I raced against in 4 years was a nice tC in driving school in '08. -until this spring!
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