I'll keep this short.

Goal: Best handling regardless of ride height..

In determining whether to purchase coilovers or springs, it has been general knowledge that springs dropping the car below 1.5" would hinder turning ability with CoG<Suspension geometry (at or below that point in height). With my limited suspension knowledge, this would also mean that coilovers would also be counter intuitive in the handling sense below a 1.5" drop with the only advantage in dampening adjustability ( assuming other suspension components aren't changed.) Am I right to assume so?

Also, In changing shocks and struts from sotock to aftermarket, what is the improvment in quality? My guess... Stiffer dampening plus longagevity?


Appreciate the feedback.

I love you all.

 

I might not be the best person to talk about this but I'll give it a shot.

I've been on Tein SSP with the pillow ball dampers and never been on springs. Coilovers do give you the options of changing your damping settings whenever you want, assuming youre okay with getting out of your car, removing the wheel and adjusting them by hand unless you get Tein SSP with the EDFC (which only works on SSP) or Tanabe makes a coilover which uses their version of EDFC (not sure but it might be the sustec zero?). EDFC is great if you feel like spending money and really care about your ride quality, since having it allows you to adjust your damping on the go, whenever and almost wherever with press of a button. I feel that coilovers do give you a more options for the price you pay, regardless if you don't feel like going below 1.5 drop (which i didnt go beyond till just recently). Some people i know swear that theres a difference in the feel when they drive on coilovers vs springs+strut/shock.

New springs and struts will of course be cheaper (depends on how you shop, some can be almost as much a coilover set, or even a few hundred dollars under a good coilover set, its really up to you whether you want to splurge for a full coilover kit or just stick with springs/strut/shock combo), but you'll be locked at whatever height the springs leave you at, and whatever dampening force is with the spring+strut/shock combo.

And switching struts/shocks when you lower the car is recommended, not required. I personally would as our OEM struts/shocks are meant to have springs of a specific height and by lowering you'll be putting more stress on the system as a whole, so even though you dont have to change them right away, you probably will eventually in some point or time.

Sorry if I sounded bias towards coilovers, I've been spoiled by having them ahahaha. But i do feel that coilovers do offer a better ride quality than springs, but i know there are others who feel the opposite.

To each their own I guess, I hope I was able to help

 

the scion suspension is just mushy, compared to my stock 07 civic. the civic feels solid, stable and the seats compliment that. i've been thinking of how to get my tc to feel that way.

 

Appreciate the feedback but my question is unanswered

Would coilovers also be counter intuitive in the handling sense below a 1.5" drop? (due to suspension geometry)

 

Okay, after spending a week thinking about this I feel that ive come to a conclusion which probably is clearer than what i said before

Coilovers offer you the ability to adjust dampening, where as springs and struts which are set in stone. If you enjoy being able to change your ride between stiff and soft go with coilovers, if you dont really care go with springs and struts. But do keep in mind for a good pair of Springs and Struts will only be slightly less than a full coilover system, or even at times a a spring and strut combo may cost more than a coilover set.

 

Again, Thank you for your contribution, however, my question does not lay with dampening, ride quality, or even deciding between coilovers or strut/springs. My question is..

If lowering a car via springs lower than 1.5" hinders suspension geometry (and in return handling performance, i.e grip performance), would coilovers lower than 1.5" do the same?

I believe lowering a car to a certain point increases POSITIVE camber quicker under tighter turns. I'm looking for the suspension gurus here..


Once again, I am not trying to shoot anyone down here or hurt feelings..

 

I've have to read over this thread quite a few times to understand what you're asking, and I think I'm almost there...

The short answer: yes. Lowering via springs, coilovers, or air bags are the same...lowering. How low you go will depend on how deeply involved you want to get into the following.

Your goal that you mentioned in your first post can, and probably will be, debated for quite some time after we've decided to move along along with our ever changing lives.

This is going to get wordy....bear with me.

In reagards to geometry, the limitations and characteristics of the stock system will be passed along to any aftermarket system (spring/shocks, coilovers, air bags) you choose if you retain the stock mounting points. And static adjustments can always be made and enhanced with the addition of correction kits (I'm sure you're aware that camber kits are abundantly available).

You're question about whether or not coilovers can handle being dropped beyond 1.5" is really a question for the manufaturers. I'm sure most of them are anticipating some poplulation of the end users to slam their cars to the ground, so I would be hopeful that they can handle a 1.5 drop. I would still ask them anyway.

There's always going to be a compromise between ride height/handling and quality. As far as springs/shocks vs coilovers, I agree with Kite. You're going to find a range of prices from cheap to expensive....deal with it, we all do. Spring and shock/strut are a fixed height, however, KONI yellows have adjustable rebound. Adjustable coilovers are offered by a wider spectrum of manufacturers. Unfortunately, just more research for you. But the simplest way to think about it is this...the lower you go, the stiffer the ride, just for the simple fact that no one wants to bottom out their car going over every little bump in the road.

Now....your goal...."Best handling regardless of ride height."

Handling is so subjejctive and changes from one person to the next and; responsiveness is the same. Everyone is going to give you a different answer to what the "best" is. And, in some instances, ride height can affect handling.

As I mentioned above static changes can always be corrected.

That being said, if your goal is to retain/enhance factory specifications in regard to a dynamic scenario...that's a whole different game. One that even the most infinitely funded racing teams still fight with day to day. I've been racing R/C touring cars for years, in my mind the pinacle of suspension tuning and adjustability, and I still don't quite fully understand ALL the ways certain adustments affect others.

I guess, really, what I think you should think about is where you want to be, height wise, then take into consideration how and where you're driving (mild, aggressive, city, highway, track), pick your system of choice and then live with the compromises you have to make in order to make your car fit your coice of driving style.

I can only imagine that there have been a number of people here that have set up their dialy drivers to run in autocross events. I think you'll get your best answer from them. What I suggest you do is find an event in your area and keep asking questions...that's the only way we learn.

I hope this hepls some....stay curious....