RichTc

I have a Firestone lifetime alignment on my tc.

I recently installed tanabe coilovers, which reduced my ride height about 3/4 an inch from where I was on my TRD Springs (when I got the last alignment there). I can see a tiny bit of negative camber on my rears now.

I called a Firestone for a new one and they said they will not be able to do an alignment because specs are for stock ride height. I obviously immediately questioned him telling him my understanding was alignment is the orientation of the wheel, not orientation of the wheel in relation to the height of the car. He backed off saying he could do toe in toe out, but couldn't touch camber because stock camber specs have to do with the ride height? I'm at work, so I didn't feel like arguing with him so i just said fine.

Does that make sense to anyone or has anyone else encountered this? Isn't your camber the degree tilt of the wheel just like your toe in and toe out?

sciontc_mich

you have enough adjustment in the stock camber cams in the rear to adjust 3/4" of a drop. Depends on how low you are, the only way to find out is to put it up on the alignment rack, and see if you can adjust the camber cams back to a within spec setting. If not then you would need aftermarket upper control arms (that's where the camber adjustment is) to bring it within spec.

Camber is the tilting in or out of the tire (top of tire), as you look from the back you'd see it tilt to the left or right (in or out). you're thinking is correct, but ride height changes how the suspension sits on the ground in relation to the tires and changes to the springs will change the camber, which then changes the toe settings. they're all related to each other, interact with each other.

bottom line, guy is full of it, and obviously lacks the ability or experience to adjust the camber cams. But please dont force this place to do the work, they obviously dont understand a modern suspension. Some people will feel like they "won" because they argued and forced a place to do the job. When all you did was force a un-knowledgeable person to do a job they didn't really know how and then screw up your car.

RichTc

It's actually a 2 inch drop (3/4" lower than it was on the TRDs).

Yeah, i hear you about forcing someone to do it, but they have to know how to adjust camber, right? I just feel like they are trying to get out of adjusting camber cause they know it's going to be off (when they would have to if it was off and it was stock height). And I totally get it if they can't get it into spec cause camber arms can't adjust that much, but just get it as close as possible and then I'll deal. I def just don't want some guy to tell me that they "spec" is based on stock ride height so they can't adjust it. I could go and adjust it myself, but it kinda burns me up that I have to do something like that when I already paid for it (the "lifetime adjustment" from Firestone already).

dropzone

I also got the Firestone's lifetime alignment, then was floored at how much I could have got the the same thing for much less at a shop across the highway. Anyways, when I took my car in for adjustment the tech that worked on mine couldn't have been any happier with the tC's setup for alignment. He just went on and corrected the toe to within spec but left the camber alone though because he thought the tire would rub on fender if he corrected it(I'm on 18x7.5 +42 wheels, it's not touching a thing). I was planning on getting new tires soon so I'd have to go and get another alignment, but def wanted the toe corrected. Go in person, and just find a tech willing to work with you. I don't know what he's talking about stock ride height, I do know that all/most places will only adjust toe and camber to within factory specs. I could be slammed to the floor and they will say the same thing, "we can only get it to factory specs"(or as close to it as much as the hardware allows). Now you might be lucky to find a tech that'll let you run whatever setting you want on alignment, then continue to ask for them to work on the car.

Carlanga

go to another location, I prefer the in-ground alignment machine locations because of my lip kit. If they were smart enough they would try to align it and then try to sell you adjustment bolts like they tried with my. I just said for next time, but I just raised the car a bit in the back and that took care of the problem. Other than that, it's one of the best $139.99 investments I have ever done to my car. (lifetime alignment)

RichTc

Maybe he thought I was looking for negative camber, not stock specs. I think I'm just going to go and see what they say. I made the appointment to wait for it, so I'll talk to them and ask them to explain why they can't adjust it, if that's the case, while it's on the lift.

I actually called another firestone and I told them what the other guy told me it would be the same thing.

Even if they won't adjust the camber, it's not too bad and the toe will be corrected at least (to keep down uneven tire wear).

Basebllstar

This.^^^

I work in a garage, a Tire Kingdom Company, the techs don't make any money on those alignment plans and a lot of the time the people up front don't care about the plans and avoid them like the plague. I know for a fact, that the tech make literally 5-10 dollars per alignment on a plan. For that reason, they try to avoid them at all costs, they can't beat the clock, the alignments sometimes take time they dont get paid for.

Trust me, if you want the best service, go there and talk to the techs in the back. Tip the techs well and they will treat you right, over and over again. Hell, I work there, and when i have big projects that i need help i tip the guys (with food).

RichTc

Do they really get paid by job not hour? That sounds like a sure fire recipe for poor workmanship.

Dam262a

iTrader: (2)

most shops like firestone, sears, and tires plus type ....always gives you a hard time.

Basebllstar

New policy. They used to get paid .75 to 1 hours per alignment, one time, plan, or dealer alignments. If you finish early, you make money. Now they get paid like $15 for one time, $10 for dealers and $5 for plans. Why would you waste your time if you're a tech? its counter productive.

The plans are good for the customers, but bad for the workers. The only reason they get sold is so the higher-ups see more money in the daily budgets, most people dont use their plans.

RichTc

I just found my last alignment sheet and realized that the rear camber was out of spec already then and they didn't adjust it either! It sucks that Firestone is shafting the employees on these plans. I found that no matter what, no mechanic, shop, etc, will ever take care of your car like you will. Guess I'll just have to learn how to do string alignments.

Anyone know how much adjustment you can get out of the stock camber arms (I'm guessing 2 degrees tops).

dropzone

I was standing at the back of the bay watching the tech work on my car the whole time, they can't stop you from overseeing the work, and it not like they close the bay doors to hide. Just be polite and check if it's ok to be nearby when the work is being done. I've done this at the dealership too. This way you can communicate with the tech and make sure of what's being done. I was fine with my rear camber being -1.5*, just need to get some camber bolts for the front to get it even both sides and to -1* or so, I drive rather aggressive and like taking turns at speed.

jbae1221

Im pretty sure but I think it states in your warranty that if any suspension work is done after the original alignment is done then your warranty is void. So they could be big a holes an just tell you that you need to buy another alignment

RichTc

This is what i found on firestones website. #2 is footnoted to the lifetime alignment.
"ALL LIFETIME WARRANTIES ARE ONLY VALID FOR AS LONG AS THE ORIGINAL CUSTOMER OWNS THE VEHICLE
(1) Costs of additional brake system components, including master cylinders, rotors, drums and all additional labor, are warrantied for a period of twelve (12) months or 12,000 miles, whichever comes first.
(2) If parts are required to restore vehicle to manufacturer's alignment specifications, then those parts and the labor required to install them are not covered. Subject to in-store equipment availability and employee qualifications to align vehicle.
(3) Lifetime balance is only warrantied so long as originally balanced tire remains on wheel. If needed, additional charge may apply for resetting the Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS).

Other Service Warranty Exclusions: Replacement of anti-freeze or clamps is not included in the warranty on belts/radiator hoses. Cost of refrigerant and recharging of the air conditioning system is not included with the warranty on air conditioner parts or air conditioner compressors. Cost of additional brake system components, including rotors and drums and/or labor to restore Brake System to its safe proper operation is not included with the warranty on Brake Shoes, Disc Pads, Calipers and/or Wheel Cylinders and all other hardware. Batteries are covered by a separate warranty from the manufacturer."

Hayseed

iTrader: (1)

Fireston royally messed up my alignment. Fixed my toe, but then the got one rear wheel at -4.2* and the other at -5* and they wouldnt get them to be the same. I argued and argued. I will never go back to that place.
On top of it, when I called and talked to one guy, he gave me the stock suspension only story. Talked to another guy, He told me to bring it in. Whatever. Shady place IMO, but thats just new mexico for you.

Jdub86

iTrader: (3)

I have only heard horror stories about Firestone Service Centers. Thats why I tell everyone I know to avoid them.