pure

I've been digging around here quite a bit in the past month or so because I'm set on grabbing some coilovers and I've pretty much narrowed it down to Tein SS-P or H&R and I was just wondering what the consesus is on these 2 sets? The only difference I can really seem to find, with my limited knowledge on the topic, is the drop range on the 2: H&R: .75-3.0 front .75-2.5 rear // SS-P 1.4-2.7.

That said, what I'm looking for is about a 1.9"(front) and 1.5"(rear) drop, nothing all that dramatic, and I'd like to keep my ride quality decent but performance outweighs that concern. This is also, very much, an everyday driver.

Which way do you guys think I should go?

Thanks alot for the input.

Otocan

the spring rate on the teins is not properly designed for the weight of our vehicle, if you noticed, they use the same spring rate as what's used on some of their heavier car coilover sets, and the only higher spring rates can be found on their much heavier cars like the supra, audi S4, lexus's etc etc

if you want them for daily driving, the teins will rattle your teeth out. I have no experience with H&R other than what I have read and heard, and they are stiff springs, but not nearly as stiff as the teins and H&R's quality and R&D will be a step above the teins.

another question you have to ask yourself is, are you going to USE the adjustability of the coilovers on your daily driver? do you NEED coilovers? there are springs that can meet your needs, like Hotchkis (F1.7 R1.97) and they drop it in the rear more because it levels out the car, and with the steering arms up front, you don't want to drop it much more than 2in because it will throw off your handling.

if you are planning on taking your car to the track and the adjustable shocks would benefit you so you could stiffen them up to what you need and put them back for daily driving, that would be a great plus, but if they're going to be put on and "set it and forget it" you may want to look into something like the Koni Yellows shocks and springs rather than coilovers, and the Koni's ARE adjustable shocks as well.

pure

Thanks alot for all that info Otocan. Honestly, I probably would just "set it and forget it" with coils, but the option of having a different ride height (if for some reason I needed it) was somewhat appealing to me, but maybe its not worth the extra money. How much would a koni shocks and hotchki/tein spring setup run? Give or take. Would the ride be better with this setup?

Thanks again for your time.

tC4italy

*watchin

racecaryaya

Full disclosure: I am biased towards Tein and am getting the SS-Ps in a week. I have done my research though and didn't just throw a dart to pick Tein. I autox and track the car so performance and reliability are my first concerns, looks and brand is secondary.

While I normally agree with you, Oto, I have to say I couldn't disagree with you more here.

First the spring rates: Tein uses 895/559 on the Audi B5 S4 and the Supra's are 895/504. The tC is 392/559. I called H&R to get their spring rates, since I couldn't find them published anywhere, and even they don't know what the rear rates are. The fronts, however are 457s...15% stiffer then the Tein SS-Ps. According to H&R's site the rates are "progressive." I've never seen a spring that is truly progressive nor have I known a progressive spring to do anything any better than a linear spring...actually a linear spring is much more predictable (not that this will matter to anyone that isn't pushing the car on a track). Then the topper: No dampening adjustability on the H&Rs. The SS-Ps offer both ride height and dampener control for a better ride.

I trust that Tein does enough R&D (since all they do is suspension tuning) to get the rates to a level that the car is mostly neutral--maybe even a hint of oversteer?). I would have a hard time believing that H&R is a "step above" Tein in R&D. They may be equals, but better than? That is more a matter of opinion than fact.

So it really will boil down to whether the OP prefer's Tein or H&R? What is the budget? Both systems ought to be within $100 of each other (might be closer with some of the sales on this board).

pure

Ya, I really have no plan of ever really pushing the car to the point of the track, but cornering is an important factor for me, as is ride quality probably to a similar degree.

I actually have a quick (noobish) question for you, racecaryaya (or anyone), the SS-Ps offer dampener and height controls, as you mention, and I was just wondering how big of a hassel is that to tweak around once you have them installed? and, I know you dont have them yet, but how much does the dampener setting really effect your everyday ride?

I'm not really married to one brand or another (as you can probably tell by now I'm fairly new to all this modding) so I'm really just looking for good daily driving performance, with a nice looking drop (that isnt obnoxious to drive with on these wonderful LA streets), and a nice ride (I honestly dont mind a rough-ish ride, but I do have my limits).

Thanks for the informative post though.

Also, racecaryaya, what is your take on my perhaps getting a shock/spring setup instead? Do you feel it will fit my needs better? If so, any recommendations?

Thanks.

Rabid_Lemming

Not too sure about this, but can't you get an optional Electronic Dampening Force Controller with the SS coilovers? I mean it only adjusts the dampening, so I assume for the ride height, you'd have to make an adjustment to the strut of the coils....but I don't have it, and haven't done as much research, so don't take my word for it.

Chapman

I have H&R coilovers and I recommend it. The ride isn't as harsh as I'd thought it'd be. I really can't tell you how they compare against the TIENs, but I can tell you I'm really satisfied with the H&Rs. I'd post a pic but it's raining, so maybe later.

racecaryaya

The height is a set-it-and-forget-it proposition. Primarily because any further adjustment requires an alignment. Dampening is a marvelous adjustment to have. I had a 9-way adjustable Bilstien set-up on a GTI and even that limited range was a great benefit in daily driving. Adjustment is easy, just twist a ****, or as was mentioned by another poster, the EDFC is a cool tool allowing 32 adjustment points and the control from the driver's seat, though this adds just under $400 to the price tag.

I looked into this possibility also and didn't really find any shocks that came valved correctly for the springs that are available (namely I looked at Hotchkis and Tein H.Techs). You could have Koni Reds specially valved for the rates, but that gets pricey. The Tein SS-Ps are a very good set-up, and if ou get it and think the spring rates are too harsh Tein will sell you the springs alone (abut $100 per corner) in whatever rate you want (+/-2 steps from the supplied spring will work with the stock valving).

pure

Hmm, I guess I'm leaning toward the SS-Ps then... anymore input is very welcome.

Otocan

Racecaryaya - I'm on the same level as you are on this situation, and if it were ME buying the coilovers, I would buy the SS-P's and have the car corner-weighted and send the specs to Tein to get it done right, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to put stiffer springs in the rear than in the front, there is ONLY 600lbs on each corner in the back, and 890lbs on each corner up front (give or take, rough estimate using 60/40 weight split) - the only thing I could see is the cause of oversteer and losing tracion mid-corner with unpredictable "bump oversteer" or whatever you'd choose to call it - also, the reason I mentioned H&R being a step above Tein is based on installing them on a buddie's car and seeing the parts in my hand, adjusting them to where they need to be, and test-riding his car, I also called both Tein and H&R with questions and H&R was not only more helpful, but the people sounded like they knew what they were talking about, that stands out a lot in my book - AGAIN I have no hands-on experience with H&R coilovers, and the fact that they don't offer dampening adjustability would kill it for me right off the bat

I autocross my TC in STX and I can tell you, I was running the TRD shocks and springs and it was doing a fine job, and a noticeable upgrade that actually cut a second or so off my times - reason I didn't go coilovers was because I got the set on sale for $550 total and installed it myself, coilovers would've been twice that cost, and if you were to get Koni Yellow's, the valving would be as close as you can get to the Hotchkis spring rate

if it is your daily driver, I can guarantee you will not be happy in the long run with the Teins, because they are harsh, and they get very bouncy if you try and compensate the dampening with the high spring rate and I would guess you'd either buy something else, or have Tein send you different springs in the long run, so you have to weigh your options - struts and springs for $600 or coilovers for $1300 + possibly $400+ for different springs for a total of over $1700 if you get the other springs.

I could get struts and springs, hotchkis sways, and killer tires like falken RT-615's or hankook ventus or Proxes4 and it would cost as much as a set of Teins - so you need to weigh your options.

2fast4you

I own H&R coilovers, however I haven't tracked my car yet as I'm still researching wheel/tire combos and brakes.

I do have a question for racecaryaya regarding the damping force adjustment on the TEINs: what exactly is it adjusting? Does it adjust compression and rebound independently?

racecaryaya

Otocan, very good point with the corner balance issue, I hadn't thought of that. Now I'll be getting a different set of rear springs for the SS-Ps--probably go with 504s instead of the 559s--so there's an additional $200.

2fast4you, Tein SS-Ps adjust compression and rebound together. If you want to adjust both you'd have to look long and hard to find something for the tC. I would prefer a double adjustable set up, but the cost is too prohibitive.

pure

Otocan, if you recommend going with a struts/springs combo, do you have any you recommend? Because earlier on it seemed like you werent impressed with any of those setups?

nauticac

side note: Do H&R's come with pillowball mounts like the SSP's?

racecaryaya

Not that I know of...the H&R coilovers for the tC are their "entry level" suspension.

Hat_Trick_Hokie

iTrader: (1)

Noob follow up question: what exactly are the "pillowball mounts". What do they add in terms of hardware and performance over the regular coilovers? Or is this something that only applies to Tein products?

Zebman

I didn't think about that until now. Wouldn't having a higher spring rate in the rear promote fishtailing even more? I've read on here of people fishtailing when lifting on the throttle, and I can only imagine the higher rate in the rear making it worse.

racecaryaya

A pillow ball mount enables camber adjustment from the top of the strut.
See more info on Tein's site.

[rant]The problem these people are experiencing is lack of experience. If anyone experiences fishtailing while they are driving on a public road is going too fast for the road and should take it to the track. [/rant]

One of the scariest things to experience at a track day is having an instructor sitting in the passenger seat saying, "Stay on the gas!" while you are cooking through a high speed turn at 90+ mph. You think, "I'm not going to make it!" Then, you lift. Game over. The back end steps out and off the track you go. Listen to the instructor, stay on the throttle and make it through the turn (I listened to the instructor and made the turn...all of them...every time).

Lifting off the throttle mid-turn in any car is a bad proposition. Think about basic physics: When you are on the throttle weight is transferred to the rear of the vehicle. With weight on the rear axle the back stays planted. Lift off the throttle and the weight will shift forward to the front axle. With no weight on the rear it wants to step out. Thus a fish tail, also known as throttle lift oversteer. This is why cars are primarily engineered to understeer, which is easily corrected by lifting off the throttle.

Zebman

I see. I doubt i'll be taking turns that fast, but my concern was the higher rate making fishtailing easier, or possible at a lower speed. I make mistakes and panic like any human being, I don't want it to be the end of me one day on a road.