CELL

So me and my roomate were having a debate last night about the best way to stablize my car with just sway bars.
His claim is sway bars and sway bars only are made to correct over/understeer...I claim that theyre made to correct body roll (sway)
Lemme ask you guys/girls. workin with JUST the hotchkis sway bars. what would be the best setting to not only correct body roll, but also under/oversteer.
My roomie suggested setting the front on a softer setting and the rear on the tightest setting

matty-tC

depends on which chassis you're speaking of.

stock suspension (other than the sways), i'd agree with your roomie

CELL

um...the tC chassis

reagulator

your roommate is right about the settings. Sways bars do both reduce body roll and correct under/oversteer

Lonely_Raven

I concur.

And what he meant is that some different cars, that have different weaknesses
the answers would be different.

CELL

ok, so for the tC with nothing but the hotchkis sway bars, what setting do you think is best?
The softest up front and tightest in the rear?
I want to be able to take daily corners tight and have no roll, and also get rid of over and understeer
haha....ignore the fact that i just said "tightest in the rear"

Xbilly

To reduce Body roll you'd want front and rear at thier tightest.
To reduce understeer youd want the front at its softes and the rear at its tightest

To reduce both you'd use the the swaybars to reduce understeer, and some good springs and shocks/struts to cut down on roll.

...i think...

sprslug_182

Oversteer occurs in rear-wheel-drive cars, understeer occurs in front-wheel-drive cars. In order to reduce understeer the most, especially if you have a lowered tC, is to make sure your alignment has just been done, and also, I'm not sure if needed, but you might also need a camber kit. This will help reduce the possibility of understeer. Along with that, you would need W or higher rated tires to grip the road better. I only cruise a box, so I only need H rated at most. For your body roll, you would need good enough springs and beefier struts and shocks. I have always gone with koni 9-way, they are awesome and have great adjustability. I hope this helps.

CELL

ok, i'll say this again, I have ONLY front/rear hotchkis sways

sprslug_182

You are asking what you need to do, I am telling you. If you don't want to listen, then fine, crash your car because you are inexperienced and you think you own a "RACE" car.

If you want to get the most out of your suspension, don't half ___ it with sways only. Your suspension needs to have full adjustability to make sure you can make small adjustments to tune it correctly. Adjustable sways, adjustable coilovers, adjustable shocks and struts. Strut braces shouldnt be adjustable because the chassis flex needs to be a minimal as possible. Read this page if you don't feel like listening to me.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed...antiroll.shtml

CELL

you know what man, you dont even own a tC so why dont you bounce on outta here with your self righteous pompous attitude.
I asked a simple question and stated this is what Im working with, now tell me how I can maximize the benefit they offer.....in no way whatsoever did I appear to be or act like someone who thinks I own a race car.
If I wanted to know what I SHOULD buy, I wouldve asked, better yet...i wouldve read what others are saying, which is something you should learn to do as well. read what someones saying.
And dont talk to me like a child either, i'm a 28 year old man

Lonely_Raven

CELL, he gave you good information. It's clear that you don't
quite understand what your asking.

"I want to be able to take daily corners tight and have no roll, and also get rid of over and understeer "

What you are talking about is a fully "corner balanced"
suspension.

You can't have just sways and expect a fully "tuned" suspension,
though that's what you are asking for.

Also, driving styles, driving conditions of the road/track,
and even your weight are considerations when you are
doing a proper corner balance.

There is no magic setting to tune EVERYTHING.

Your *best* option with what you have, is to dig in and test
your current suspension with it's current settings, go back
tweak, and retest. Continue until the car meets your
expectations within it's (and your) limits.

Do a little googling on Corner Balance and Autocross and
I'm sure you'll find tons of info that will give you an idea of
exactly what your asking.

And yes, I also drive a box, but I also have *two* Porsche
and I've had many Turbocharged Euro cars. So I have a little
idea of what I'm talking about.

Though I don't agree with sprslugs "Oversteer occurs in rear-wheel-drive cars"
part, the rest of what was said is right on!

Good luck with your quest.

CELL

listen...I didnt say he didnt have good info,
ALL I want to know is how to make the best out of what I have. Im asking people who own a tC to get their feedback about what worked best for them using just hotchkis sways.
Everything else thats being said, although useful....is irrelevant to what I clearly asked.
The hotchkis sway bars have 3 different settings.
what is the best setting for them to eliminate body roll and correct over and understeer issues.
I dont see how hard it is to answer directly and if you dont have a tC, why are you answering questions in a tC corner carvers thread about a specific item?

sprslug_182

Just because I own a box, doesn't mean I dont work as a toyota technician and know about some of this.

sprslug_182

Lonely, I appreciate the support. I am just trying to help CELL. Lonely, what I meant to say about the oversteer/understeer, is that in most cases that understeer occurs mostly in front wheel and oversteer in rearwheel. This because I know many people who are heavy on the brake or heavy on the gas when cornering is all. I do see where you caught my falicy.

CELL. I have owned many cars and most have all been SCCA approved and I have gone to Bondurant school as well. Plus, many suspensions in compacts are based on the same design, some small changes. I mean take the xB for exmaple, really simple design for the rear. Torsion beam suspension has been around for a long time, really simple, but effective design. Very little changes to what has been. So in terms of suspension, I know enough.

CELL

all this knowledge and cant even answer a simple and direct question. giving advice based off of what someone says is just impossible around here, isnt it? Everyone has to get into someo sorta ____ing match and/or flex what they know or claim to know...but yet, noone can even answer a simple question

HKSpeed

you and your roommate are both correct about what a sway bar does.

softer settings up front and stiffer settings in the rear will reduce understeer and create more oversteer in any fwd car. being a fwd car, you wont have to worry about ever sliding out the rear of your tc unless you upgrade to heavy duty race components.

if you only use hotckis sway bars and keep everything else stock, you wont notice a significant difference in handling or body roll. thats why everyone else is recommending you upgrade suspension and tires.

CELL

Ok, thanks. However, Im going to disagree with you about noticing a significant difference in roll.
I currently have both front and rear set on the tightest setting and the body roll is virtually nonexistant. Atleast noticeable body roll
If youre familiar with the hotchkis sways, would you say set the front ones to the middle setting or the softest setting?

engifineer

As far as having to have adjustable shocks.... not hardly unless you are running seriously on a track.


On the understeer/oversteer:

If the stiffness of the rear relative to the front sway bars is high (much stiffer in the rear), you increase oversteer. If the front is too stiff compared to the rear, you increase understeer. Since a FWD vehicle has a tendency to understeer already, I reccomend a little more sway bar in the rear to actually push it towards oversteer, which is much more controllable than understeer.

Sway bars affect virtually every part of handling. Since they remove some of the independence in the suspension, they obviously create a stiffer ride as you set them stiffer. That decrease in independence also is what counters body roll and affects understeer/oversteer.

I would start with a good sway in the rear if you go one at a time.

jenga

Umm, Are you referring to sway bars mounted underneath your chassis and connected to the links, or Strut tower bars that are mounted in your trunk/engine bay? Because they do the same thing 2 different ways. They reduce body roll. That, however has an unsettling effect on the car when the drive wheels are up front. But almost every car out there has a front and rear sway bar if it has independent suspension at that particular end of the vehicle. i.e. struts/shocks and coils on each wheel, not a solid beam. And you do realize that "tuning" as it refers to race type setups actually takes more than slapping on a new part and saying "yeah, that feels much tighter" Because the amount of difference you're going to feel with just one modification is going to be minute on a street legal car, at best. Setups are accomplished through hours of controlled testing on a particular track, or setting. And they usually involve the replacement or modification of several components. If you ask me dude, You'll get better cornering through positive camber and a set of coil-overs than you will from sway bar/strut bar mods. And don't post a thread and get ____ed off when someone gives you their opinion. It's what you asked for in the first place, right??

I hope this was helpful. Good luck!! :D