CELL

wow, out of everyone who posted here, Xbilly, HKSpeed , and engifineer are the only people who actually know how to read and reply accordingly.

engifineer

Strut bars do very little for body roll compared to sways. Your sway works by compressing the inside spring in some proportion to the outside, so as the car leans on the outer spring, the inner one also compresses, reducing body roll. As you set it stiffer, the inner spring is affected more by the outer one. This all works off of torsion. This is also why it makes your ride rougher when you switch to a bigger sway, you lose some independence. A strut bar stiffens the body by not allowing one strut tower to move in a different position than the other, keeping your camber and alignment correct through a corner. This does affect body roll indirectly, but VERY little in comparison to a sway. Especially on the tC considering the strut towers are part of the firewall. As far as tuning a suspension goes, most people driving on the street 90% of the time are simply concerned with better handling, not 100% tuned after hours of testing and tuning. And yes, a sway will have a noticeable effect when installed. You can do all the adjusting you want on the coilovers, but if your stock sways are too weak, you will not achieve the anti-roll effects you are looking for. Unless of course you can shell out the thousands required to have a magnetorheological fluid suspension system designed for your tC.

jenga

[quote="engifineer"]Firstly, My comment on the sway/Strut bars was that they do the same things. You just agreed with me. Secondly, The struts in a tC Bolt (via the mounts) to the apron, like every other car in the universe today. The firewall is not a structural component, but it would be funny to see that. Thirdly, I'd like to know how you've had the time to interview "the 90% of the people out there that are only concerned with better handling" to make a vague generalization, or blanket statement about that segment of our fine society? I would surmise that, given an unlimited amount of funds, we'd all do as much modding as possible, or necessary to serve our very varied and sometime ostentatious tastes, no?

engifineer

[quote="jenga"]Wow, sad to see you take some disagreement so badly, but...

If you read again I said nothing about 90% of people anywhere at any time. I said most people DRIVING ON THE STREET 90% of the time. Not 90% of people driving on the street. I have seen very few people that spend run after run on a track setting their suspension perfect on a car that will rarely (if ever) see a track, much less that particular track. So for a car that will spend 90% (or most likely all) of its time on the street that type of fine tuning is a bit overkill, and usually useless given the variety of roads and road conditions.

Second, the strut towers ona tc are almost part of the firewall. And although a firewall is thin sheet metal, a little common physics will allow you to see that the strength we are concerned with here is TENSILE strength, which that peice of sheet metal does possess a good deal of. With the aprons connecting to the unibody in the way they do, you practically have to stretch the firewall in order for them to move independently. They can to a degree, which is why I do have a strut bar installed. No one said the strut bars were useless.

But as far as preventing body roll, they do that VERY little (not even noticeably in most cases), which I clearly and thoroughly explained in my previous post. That is not their primary role. I also covered that pretty thoroughly as well

The original poster NEVER said anything about strut bars anywhere in his post at all. The word was not even mentioned. As a matter of fact:


I am not sure where you got that he was even mentioning strut bars from that at all. And when talking of body roll, one usually does not think of strut bars, they think of the one part that will have a large effect on body roll: sway bars. That is their purpose in life. Please, if you are going to jump on peoples posts, take the time to read them first. You badly mis-represented both mine and his posts in your replies. You seem more determined to argue than to answer the simple question he asked here.

teksno

and i thought i was angry...

to get the most out of what you have set the fromt bar softer then what you have the rear set...

but if you want to do it right, chabmer links, coilovers and sways are needed... then you can fine tune your suspension to the way you drive...

jenga

He he he. Wow now you're steamin. If you don't want a post to get hijacked, try PMing. You should also not talk out of your ___ with somebody that has made a living the last three and a half years selling factory Toyota and Scion Parts at a dealership. You try suspending a motor between two struts attached to sheet metal and lets see how far down the road your vehicle gets. The apron is the apron, the firewall is the firewall, the radiator support is the radiator support. There, that was your tour around an engine bay. And if you had any clue what you were doing to your vehicle in the first place, you certainly wouldn't be upgrading with TRD parts. It's a bogus company in the US market that was created to satisfy the meager demand some "enthusiasts" have for dealer installed "performance parts", though they're really not. You must like the flashy red logo.TRD Japan however, now that's a different story. Go lay down.

Keep flaming me, this is fun!!

engifineer

Not sure where I was steamin...

And wow, you sell parts. I grew up working on all my own, trained by a father who has been doing it for 35 years, and worked for him in between other stuff growing up. I was doing minor work on his customers cars when I was 10, so I am not exactly talkin out my ___. And guess what? Most of the parts guys he buys from bring their cars to him, because they are PARTS guys, not necessarilly mechanics. How does selling parts make you a master at mechanics? I have friends who's girlfriends who know jack about fixing a car that work in parts houses. They know thier parts, but nothing more. Again, you dont address my post in the least. Who EVER said that the firewall supported everything else? I have had them to the frame/unibody and back up, so I know a bit about what goes where. Sounds like your "tour" is about all you know. Stop letting out the little temper of yours and mouthing off about stuff that doesnt even fall into the subject at hand. You were wrong, face it, be a man and stop getting sissy hissy over it. No one even attacked you, I simply corrected you and you get all bent out of shape. Now who's steaming? I suggest you stop digging now, your hole is getting so deep as to prevent you from twisting peoples words to get out. In a not so nice way of putting it, you are showing your a$$. Now, have a good night.


*****EDIT****

And we dont need to flame you. You are doused in gasoline holding your own match each time you open your mouth. Instead of starting some other subject, like the TRD debate (which, where the hell did that come from? ) Why not share some of the infinite knowledge by telling us your experience (other than selling parts... my friend sells houses but hasnt a clue how to build them). Hell, why not actually address my points that you seem to find so wrong? I have yet to hear you actually dispute what I really said. Tell me how I am wrong, add some real info, or just get out of the conversation.

jenga

So this is about what your dad knows now? And yes, the fact that TMC has seen fit to certify me as a "Parts Expert" does, in fact, qualify me to not only make very poigniant statements that I can back up, but also entails the ability for an individual such as myself to sift through images and listings of some 25000 parts on each of the 60 or so models that it has produced over the years, or are currently being produced plus three Scion models currently in production, and very effectively, and timely, place the right parts in the hands of those that need them most. Kind of hard to find what I'm looking for if I don't know what it does. Funny thing about it is that I don't make money if I can't function in that capacity. I'm very sorry that you have friends that suck at their jobs. So someday when you grow up, do YOU want to be a mechanic too?? I think that's admirable. But I'd maintain a decent working relationship with those parts guys and gals you may have to deal with in the future. I mean, we're all idiots, you know? I think I hear your mom calling you for dinner.

engifineer

^^ again totally off subject. I never called parts guys idiots. I never said I wanted to be a mechanic as I went through grad school to be an engineer/developer. Or anything making this about what my father knows. You attempted (poorly) to attack what I know. I simply stated enough to show that I am not making this up. I dont argue things about which I dont know anything. Again, you wont address what you attacked to start with. Because you obviously cant back it. And you are a "Parts Expert". Wow, that really makes you a tech huh? So tell me why you arent making higher pay as a Master Tech? Or better off working at your own shop? Like I said, you make points about things not even in the argument. You can spew and mouth all you want. Untill you actually address my points you started on to begin with, you are boring me as well as wasting this thread. I challenge you yet again to tell me where I was wrong about the functionality of sway bars. Or suspension for that matter, or where anywhere the orignal poster mentioned strut bars. This is ridiculous, and I appologize to the others on this thread for arguing with this guy and invoking even more senseless info. So until a valid point on the subject at hand is made, I'll leave it to the "Parts Expert".

jenga

Sorry dude.....That was your mom calling ME. I forgot, we have an 9:30pm reservation IN MY BED.hehe. Have some fun dude, life's short, and you were obviously stuffed in one too many lockers in high school....Kisses

CELL

could you do us all a favor and go ____ all over someone elses thread.

jenga

I think I'm done for the night.

Schuller

Bars do correct sway and can change your oversteer and understeer. Keep the rear at the stiffest and try the front at all three settings and choose which you prefer. Stiffer rear = more oversteer.

I recommend adding some tein s techs the combo of springs and sways would give you a whole new level of performance.

CELL

yea, I want to do that. But i'm gonna need to get better rubber too. the tread rating on the stock's are crap and with tight sways, and s techs...I doubt i'll be able to get another 7,000 miles outta these tires