CSOCSO

iTrader: (1)

So i took my car today to MIDAS ( im tired driving my car for 35 minutes to get alignment done)

and they just showed it to me that i got MAJOR caster problem!
i took this pic before they did anything to the car:




They told me that there is a guy who can fix it.. for around %500 (he would custom make a some kind of caster adjuster plate)

I thought this happened because we changed my shocks. but i found my old forum and i had my tokico shocks that time and i had no caster problem =actually the print out shows: cross camber -0.1 before and 0.0 after
cross caster 0.0 before and 0.0 after
cross SAI 0.3 before and 0.1 after



the only thing happened since that i bumped someone from behind. it wasnt a big big accident. i didnt even had to change my hood! but they did had to pull the body.


What do u guys think?



btw the shop charged me a fortune!!!!!!!!!! 129 for alignment and they said the 70 dollar one is only basic stuff and now they will do the camber, toe and caster....
well i thought every shop does that for 70 bucks. i dont care now.. since my rear camber bolt is dead so i have to change it and they will do the alignment after the camber bolt install for free.



Oh and the other thing: i always wondered why they dont do my alignment when im in the car? the car doesnt drive itself...... if i jump in my car there will be 300lbs on the left side.. that must change something how the car sits.

so they did my alignment everything was green ( except the caster and the rear camber) and as soon as i sit in the car both front toe jumped to red!!!!

so they fixed my toe and it is green even if im in the car. this is the way to do a proper alignment on the car.

kmx22

aha, i'm not an alignment expert, but put a sub on the opposite side of the driver seat in the rear...that'll help with weight distribution...lol

davedavetC

iTrader: (4)

that caster is NOT right

bring it to another place, maybe their machine is screwed up

sciontc_mich

that's NOT the caster but the "Steering Axis Inclination" measurement. That will change with springs or frame work. It's not adjustable like camber/caster/toe. I would look into another alignment shop

Plus yes, for 300lbs you should be able to sit in the car, you would make a dramatic difference by getting an alignment with you in it.

Un4Scene

^What he said ^

Also, most vehicles don't even have an OEM way to adjust caster. Generally, about the only thing that will significantly change your caster is a serious collision, or smacking a curb head-on pretty hard.

When you add weight to the passenger compartment of a vehicle it shouldn't affect any of your alignment settings significantly except camber. It may have a slight affect on the toe, but it shouldn't be anything significant. If the toe is changing drastically with the addition of 300 pounds then you may have some worn links to find. If you've got blown out bushings in your links that could also explain the wierd SAI, and the fact that you have such a significant difference in SAI from side to side. It could also be that they did the alignment wrong... If someone sat inside the car to turn the steering wheel (necessary to check the SAI), that could've thrown off the reading a little, though I wouldn't expect it to be that much.

Also, the factory reccomended alignment spec's are designed to be set with out any significant extra weight in the car - meaning no people. This is why most factory camber spec's are around +0.5 to +1.5. When you add the weight of the driver or passengers it's supposed to even it out. Anyone qualified to run an alignment machine should know that, and they should've explained it to you.

I second the opinion to find a better shop, however, for a shop like Midas that's not an unusual price to pay for a full alignment. Keep in mind though, and I speak from experience as an ex-employee of Midas, those type of shops will use things like alignments and free inspections to look for every thing they can find that might show even the slightest hint of wearing out or needing repair. I'd be willng to bet they offered you a free 78 point inspection, or something similar? Maybe they told you that they are required to test drive every vehicle? It's not necessarily dishonest, they are just looking for something to make money off of, although many shops do abuse this common practice.
Hope this helps!

sciontc_mich

^^ to add to this.. 300lbs is a lot of weight for this vehicle especially if the maximum payload is 850lbs. I do believe that you should check your suspension parts for wear/damage, but even with that much weight it would change the alignment numbers even if no part was damaged.

Race car teams do put their driver in the car when they align the vehicle. So yes, that is something to think about. But not the reason the SAI is at 22 degrees.

CSOCSO

iTrader: (1)

so this could be caused by my little accident? should i call the shop who did the work?

but i still cant believe that his could be caused by that since the damage wasnt so big... as i said not even my cf hood was damaged so much that it had to be changed.

sw09

you have to realize that freak accidents do happen, such as your accident could have sent some shock into your suspension system therefore altering it. i would go to a different repair shop to get the alignment done.

CSOCSO

iTrader: (1)

the problem is that 90% of the shops refuse to do my alignment since im lowered... i found one shop in miami but its 35 mins from here. thats why i went to midas and they said they will do it. but i still dont understand why did they say that my caster is out. since is goot but the problem is my SAI.. they even showes me how my shocks sitting in an angle.

Un4Scene

Check this out:

http://autorepair.about.com/library/...bldef-748a.htm

"SAI is a built-in nonadjustable angle and is used with camber and the included angle to diagnose bent spindles, struts and mislocated crossmembers."

What this means is that SAI is not a measurement like camber or toe. It is not something that is ever intended to be adjusted or changed in any way. It is just a measurement that is used to diagnose problems.

First things first - notice that it says the SAI is related to the camber. If you were sitting in the car during the alignment it would have changed your camber, and therefore changed the SAI. Race cars are aligned with the driver sitting in them in order to fine-tune the handling for racing conditions. Factory spec's are not designed to have anyone in the car. The factory has no way of knowing how much you weigh, or how the weight of your belongings will be distributed in the vehicle. Having a driver in the car would certainly give you a more accurate alignment, but if you do the alignment that way you can't use the factory spec's. If you, or anyone else, was in the car when those measurements were taken then you have to start over with another alignment.

With as much as your car is lowered, I would expect there to be a significant change in the SAI. That really isn't that big of a deal. What I would be more concerned about is the cross SAI. The cross measurement indicates that there is a significant difference from one side to the other. If you hit something hard enough to tweak the strut, the control arm, or any of the mounting points on the unibody or subframe it could cause that. If you hit the wheel directly into something like a curb with enough speed it could bend any of those pieces or blow out the rubber bushings on the control arm. The bushings can also wear out over time, but that doesn't usually happen till at least 90k miles or so, usually more like 130k. Although lowering the car may put extra stress on them, causing it to happen sooner. That would be the first thing I would check.

If that checks out ok, then I would suggest talking to the shop that did the body work and asking if they have an alignment rack. Most bigger body shops do because an alignment is a necessary part of doing repairs after an accident, especially a front-end collision. This is done specifically to check for this type of thing. If that shop has an alignment rack ask them if their rack measures SAI. Not all of them do. If they don't then find another shop that does. If they do have a rack that checks SAI then they may be able to work something out with your insurance company (assuming there was a claim from your accident). If they check the alignment and find that there is a bent piece somewhere then you might be able to get the insurance to cover the repairs as part of the old claim. If they check the alignment and don't find anything out of the ordinary then get a print out of their measurements. If anything doesn't look right ask them for an explanation. With their ability to actually work on the vehicle and see it in person they may be able to spot something that we can't here.

If all else fails, and you really want to make sure everything is ok, you'll have to reinstall all the stock suspension pieces on your car and have the alignment checked again. If the SAI or anything else comes out funky with all the OEM pieces in place then you'll know for sure that you have something wrong.

Something else just occurred to me... if you happen to have coilovers or struts that are a different length from the OEM pieces (between the top and bottom mounting points) they would change your SAI... but not your cross SAI. /shrug

Good luck!

CSOCSO

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the big write up.

but. as i said. i was NOT in the car when i took the pic. when i did jump in the car the toe jumped out of spec ( both sides!) [ no.. not the camber... the TOE did!]

they did the alignment like that since im the only one who drives the car.. so the toe would be messed up anyway... i do not care that the toe is in spec while the car is parking...............

about the crash... as i said it wasnt a HUUUGE crash. the shop did some pulling on the front but all i could see is some bent stuff next to the batter, front of the cai.

here is two photo what happaned:





as you can see on the photo it wasnt a huge crash. i was going..... maybe 20 mph but it does look like the the left side took the most and that side i have the biggest problem with the SAI ( 22 degree) ( notice my fender bent up a little and the headlight had a lil crack only in the inside!)

that shop did not have any machine in there. it was a very small shop. And im afraid to call the insurance again since im paying almost twice as much now before the crash ( now i pay 185. an 85 dollars jump) and my deductable was a 1000!

am afraid if i open the claim my insurance will raise again. but this needs to be fixed thats for sure.