Rear or Front sway bar
01-21-2007, 01:34 AM
#1
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Rear or Front sway bar
Hello all - I am thinking of adding either a rear or front sway bar. Which one would be more beneficial on a stock suspension?
Also, does the rear bar take up any space in the "trunk"? Can I get some pictures of the rear bar.. I really have no idea how it fits in.
Also, does the rear bar take up any space in the "trunk"? Can I get some pictures of the rear bar.. I really have no idea how it fits in.
01-21-2007, 02:42 AM
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https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...680&highlight=
TRD has a rear. hotchkis has both. You can't mix and match. You either do a trd rear (less effective) or hotchkis front and rear (more effective). The hotchkis bars are more effective not because they are any better quality, but because they are MUCH stiffer than the trd. If you use a hotchkis rear and no front, the car will oversteer badly. If you use the front hotchkis and rear trd, the car will understeer badly. I personally think hotchkis bars are more for the track. Check out the other thread for numbers. The hotchkis are really beefy bars. But you cant mix and match. Don't worry about the front if you are doing a trd rear, you need it if you are doing the hotchkis rear. Balancing out the suspension is important, so you dont want to mess it up. The rear sway does a lot for the car.
BTW, it goes under the car. It doesn't go inside. You will never see the bar(s) unless you go under the car.
(I personally recommend using the trd bar (i do). 2 settings, street (less) and race (more stiff). The race is 64% stiffer than stock while the hotchkis is 338% stiffer than stock. I think the 338% may be overkill for street driving).
TRD has a rear. hotchkis has both. You can't mix and match. You either do a trd rear (less effective) or hotchkis front and rear (more effective). The hotchkis bars are more effective not because they are any better quality, but because they are MUCH stiffer than the trd. If you use a hotchkis rear and no front, the car will oversteer badly. If you use the front hotchkis and rear trd, the car will understeer badly. I personally think hotchkis bars are more for the track. Check out the other thread for numbers. The hotchkis are really beefy bars. But you cant mix and match. Don't worry about the front if you are doing a trd rear, you need it if you are doing the hotchkis rear. Balancing out the suspension is important, so you dont want to mess it up. The rear sway does a lot for the car.
BTW, it goes under the car. It doesn't go inside. You will never see the bar(s) unless you go under the car.
(I personally recommend using the trd bar (i do). 2 settings, street (less) and race (more stiff). The race is 64% stiffer than stock while the hotchkis is 338% stiffer than stock. I think the 338% may be overkill for street driving).
01-21-2007, 04:46 AM
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i heard of oversteer. but whats understeer? i have the trd rear bar and i just bought the st front bar i wanna see how it will ride if i miss match both of them? the front is 24mm and i know the trd is 22mm. if it rides bad i will just buy the rear st bar which is 20 mm. i dont see why it wont work is all the rear bars are less stiffer then the front sway bars. we will see if it wont work right i will just sell the trd bar and get the reae st bar!
01-21-2007, 04:55 AM
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Dont forget that you can adjust the trd bar from race to street and vice versa to help match the suspension.
Understeer is the opposite effect of oversteer. Rather than the car turning too much into a turn (more than the driver wants), the car won't turn enough and veer off of the intended path. To prevent understeer in that case, you would need to slow down so the car doesnt plow ahead uncontrollably while you are trying to get it to turn.
An extra stiff front sway (more so than the rear) will cause understeer. An extra stiff rear sway (moreso than the front) will cause oversteer. You need to find a balance. What is considered perfect is a neutral balance so all 4 tires would lose control at the same time rather than just the rear or just the front. That is considered optimal. The trd rear sway matched with the stock front is (according to trd), optimal. Now does this mean street or race? I dont know. I have a trd rear sway on race and no front sway, and my car tends to oversteer when pushed to limits. So yea, a slightly larger front sway might be nice, or to solve the issue w/o spending more money, I can switch it to the street setting - of course this second option lowers my handling capability. Personally, i'll deal with the slight oversteer b/c I don't want to spend money for 2 new sways. After all, there is no front sway to match the trd rear, so i'd have to get rid of it and start over with a new front AND rear sway that match each other....hope this helps you understand
Understeer is the opposite effect of oversteer. Rather than the car turning too much into a turn (more than the driver wants), the car won't turn enough and veer off of the intended path. To prevent understeer in that case, you would need to slow down so the car doesnt plow ahead uncontrollably while you are trying to get it to turn.
An extra stiff front sway (more so than the rear) will cause understeer. An extra stiff rear sway (moreso than the front) will cause oversteer. You need to find a balance. What is considered perfect is a neutral balance so all 4 tires would lose control at the same time rather than just the rear or just the front. That is considered optimal. The trd rear sway matched with the stock front is (according to trd), optimal. Now does this mean street or race? I dont know. I have a trd rear sway on race and no front sway, and my car tends to oversteer when pushed to limits. So yea, a slightly larger front sway might be nice, or to solve the issue w/o spending more money, I can switch it to the street setting - of course this second option lowers my handling capability. Personally, i'll deal with the slight oversteer b/c I don't want to spend money for 2 new sways. After all, there is no front sway to match the trd rear, so i'd have to get rid of it and start over with a new front AND rear sway that match each other....hope this helps you understand
01-21-2007, 05:01 AM
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so what your saying is i should put the front st bar to the stiffes setting and the trd to the street setting so the back wont be as stiff and the front? or should i just put the front sway to the lighter setting so i wont understeer? cause i can do that then? cause if i put ther front to the stiffes and the rear to the lightest i would have oversteer so i figure if i put the front to the lightest i wont have that much oversteer and not that much understeer i dunno you tel me you seem like you know more then me on this topic or do you think i should just buy the back and sell my trd one?
01-21-2007, 05:08 AM
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I'd sell the trd and buy the back one. The two were made to go together. Or even better, sell everything you have and get the hotchkis bars! lol You can play with it and see what works, but i'm not too familiar with that bar so I dont know what would even it out. But hopefully now you understand a bit more of how it works so you can experiment for yourself and decide what you want to do! For all I know, the st bar and trd rear sway on race setting could be perfect...I dunno!
01-21-2007, 05:32 AM
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i would but i cant it wont let me cause i havent posted enough on this site lol? i will try to post it on yoursciontc.com i guess if i cant here wonder how much i will get for it its been on for like 3 months
01-21-2007, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Spect2K3
Dont forget that you can adjust the trd bar from race to street and vice versa to help match the suspension.
Understeer is the opposite effect of oversteer. Rather than the car turning too much into a turn (more than the driver wants), the car won't turn enough and veer off of the intended path. To prevent understeer in that case, you would need to slow down so the car doesnt plow ahead uncontrollably while you are trying to get it to turn.
An extra stiff front sway (more so than the rear) will cause understeer. An extra stiff rear sway (moreso than the front) will cause oversteer. You need to find a balance. What is considered perfect is a neutral balance so all 4 tires would lose control at the same time rather than just the rear or just the front. That is considered optimal. The trd rear sway matched with the stock front is (according to trd), optimal. Now does this mean street or race? I dont know. I have a trd rear sway on race and no front sway, and my car tends to oversteer when pushed to limits. So yea, a slightly larger front sway might be nice, or to solve the issue w/o spending more money, I can switch it to the street setting - of course this second option lowers my handling capability. Personally, i'll deal with the slight oversteer b/c I don't want to spend money for 2 new sways. After all, there is no front sway to match the trd rear, so i'd have to get rid of it and start over with a new front AND rear sway that match each other....hope this helps you understand
Understeer is the opposite effect of oversteer. Rather than the car turning too much into a turn (more than the driver wants), the car won't turn enough and veer off of the intended path. To prevent understeer in that case, you would need to slow down so the car doesnt plow ahead uncontrollably while you are trying to get it to turn.
An extra stiff front sway (more so than the rear) will cause understeer. An extra stiff rear sway (moreso than the front) will cause oversteer. You need to find a balance. What is considered perfect is a neutral balance so all 4 tires would lose control at the same time rather than just the rear or just the front. That is considered optimal. The trd rear sway matched with the stock front is (according to trd), optimal. Now does this mean street or race? I dont know. I have a trd rear sway on race and no front sway, and my car tends to oversteer when pushed to limits. So yea, a slightly larger front sway might be nice, or to solve the issue w/o spending more money, I can switch it to the street setting - of course this second option lowers my handling capability. Personally, i'll deal with the slight oversteer b/c I don't want to spend money for 2 new sways. After all, there is no front sway to match the trd rear, so i'd have to get rid of it and start over with a new front AND rear sway that match each other....hope this helps you understand
I believe the tC does have a front sway bar from the factory.
01-21-2007, 05:59 AM
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it does have a front sway bar from factory but not as big as the aftermarket ones. and i have already ordered the front and place the trd up for sell i will sell it on wednesday cause thats when i should be here says nopi
01-21-2007, 03:20 PM
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Personally, after having the TRD rear for quite some time, I dont know tht I would go with a stiffer setup for a daily driver.
Remember, sways work by removing steering independence. So while they reduce body roll, they can hurt the handling on rougher streets. So if you go super stiff and normally drive on bumpier city streets, you may see a decrease in corering ability.
So far the TRD is perfect for me on the street. I plan to get into some auto-xing for fun next summer, so there I could see a front and rear set being nice.
Also keep in mind the front is about 100 times harder to install than the rear, since you drop the subframe a bit to get it in. Not that it is an undo-able job, but you will want to give yourself much more time to install.
Remember, sways work by removing steering independence. So while they reduce body roll, they can hurt the handling on rougher streets. So if you go super stiff and normally drive on bumpier city streets, you may see a decrease in corering ability.
So far the TRD is perfect for me on the street. I plan to get into some auto-xing for fun next summer, so there I could see a front and rear set being nice.
Also keep in mind the front is about 100 times harder to install than the rear, since you drop the subframe a bit to get it in. Not that it is an undo-able job, but you will want to give yourself much more time to install.
01-21-2007, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by captainlaziness
Originally Posted by Spect2K3
An extra stiff front sway (more so than the rear) will cause understeer. An extra stiff rear sway (moreso than the front) will cause oversteer. You need to find a balance. What is considered perfect is a neutral balance so all 4 tires would lose control at the same time rather than just the rear or just the front. That is considered optimal. The trd rear sway matched with the stock front is (according to trd), optimal. Now does this mean street or race? I dont know. I have a trd rear sway on race and no front sway, and my car tends to oversteer when pushed to limits. So yea, a slightly larger front sway might be nice, or to solve the issue w/o spending more money, I can switch it to the street setting - of course this second option lowers my handling capability. Personally, i'll deal with the slight oversteer b/c I don't want to spend money for 2 new sways. After all, there is no front sway to match the trd rear, so i'd have to get rid of it and start over with a new front AND rear sway that match each other....hope this helps you understand
