yesti

not saying i'd PURPOSELY do that, but on the street you never know what may be in your way. but slow in is definately a good, safe way to go about it regardless.

bajamike

So far I have gotten the rear end to come out twice. All the I have done to the supension is full TRD setup with the swaybar on race. The first time was one my way home from work. There is this off camber 90 degree corner that turn my car into a drifter for about 4 seconds. At this stop light before the corner this guy cut in front of me. So I decided to tail his ___ along this twisty road. Well when we got to this 90 degree left hand corner he crosses the line and goes into the oncoming traffic lane. I decided to stay in my lane but to match his spead and even try and pass him around the corner. Only thing is his lane is not off camber and mine is really bad about half way throught it. So I go into the turn about around 60-65mph and half way through the turn the back end kicks out. I was not expecting it and automatically began to counter steer to keep the car going straight. I was king of fun but scary at the same time since this was the first time I found the limits of the car. The car came back to sorts and straightend out very easily. So fyi beware of off camber turns.
The next time this kind of happened was on a semi wet road. I had some guy tailling me so I was driving faster than I normally would on a wet road. I came into a sweeping right hand turn not really fast but faster than I normally would and the back end did a big twitch. It came out really fast but grabbed traction a second later. That was a little scary. For anyone who has the Hotchkis sway bars I would drive really slow in rain, especially with the stock tires. If my car is that twitchy with the TRD setup it could be really sketchy with something thats has 200% stiffer sway bars or what ever it is. In total I would sum up the cars handleing as semi sporty. It's farily heavy and still has a lot of body roll compared to my old Integra with all its suspension mods, but I still enjoy the Tc as my daily driver.

yesti

ok bajamike, sorry but, that entire post is just retarded on your and the other driver's accounts. hope you were kidding.

bajamike

Sure buddy. What ever you say. We're all kidding.

yesti

ok bajamike, if you need me to elaborate i shall.

1. guy 'cuts you off', therefore you tail him, guy pulls into INCOMING traffic lane, you HOLD HIM OUT and almost lose it.

2. road wet, someone tailing you, so you SPEED UP and almost lose it.

on a serious note, did you lift throttle or brake in any of the turns? that is what this thread is actually about, not you doing something dumb and living to tell about it.

davedavetC

iTrader: (4)

could that be the reason why my car spun out on an off ramp and i crashed into the guard rail 3 times and totaled my car? and no lie i was goin 30 mph.

yesti

sorry to hear that, hope you are okay. do you have the trd sway set to race and did you lift throttle or brake later than you should have? i know it is hard to think back to what you did, but if so then that may explain at least some of it.

bajamike

On the first turn I just went into the corner a little to fast and did let off the gas. The combination of that and the off camber turn really unweighted the car causing backend to come loose. In the rain I was not even going very fast and again let of the gas halfway through the corner which again unsettled the car. The reason for my story was not to for showing off but to inform other drivers that this car can be a handful if you don't know what you are doing. There are a bunch of young drivers that own this car and they are doing suspension mods thinking this car will handle like a Porsche. They also probably have less than 4 or 5 years driving experience under their belt. Combine both these factors and you have a recipe for distaster. By sharing my expierences of pushing the car to the limits hopefully they will know that they will know not to drive like that.

yesti

thanks mike for clearing that up, i do appreciate your input.

i agree that for a 'first car' the tC is engineered rather strangely for the typical oversteer inexperienced driver (myself included). and about 'handling like a porsche' there was some discussion about a model from a while ago that was also 'plagued' by lift throttle oversteer...searching...older 911's i believe 'suffered' from unavoidable oversteer:

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...+lift+throttle

at least we aren't THAT bad ;) but maybe you should set your bar to 'street' during rainy season i still have my bar set to street and haven't swung out yet (and i've tried braking and turning when nobody and nothing is around going ~40mph, albeit on dry pavement).

about the hotchkis bars, yes the rear is a lot stiffer than the trd but the front is also stiffer so it may be possible to find a good balance with that setup. haven't read anything definitive on that yet, but it may be on here somewhere...

make_shift

[mini-rant]
You're still a tool.

Yes. I'll be "that guy."

Take the car to an AutoX or a track to push it. NOT A PUBLIC ROAD. In the rain. Around a corner. With a car next to you. Into oncoming traffic.

I'll say it again: Tool.

I'll chalk up your "story" to stupidity and inability to drive a car under control on public roads.
Please post a warning anytime you intend on traveling through SEPA. Thank you.
[/mini-rant]

On the track the tC definitley is more likely to understeer rather than oversteer. The rear wheels stay planted though the suspension gives so much that the assend feels like it's stepping out. Too much body roll in the rear. A better sway and better spings/coil-overs will qwell this and make the car more neutral.

yesti

thanks for the support, he semi-redeemed himself by actually contributing what he did to make the rear end kick out.

I see you have the RS1, maybe your tires are better than the RE92's (though damn near ANY tire may be better than the RE92's) so your back end stays more planted. Or maybe it is the strut bar? Anyhow, do you have any suspension mods so we can get an idea of what helps what?

making the car 'more neutral' seems not to be the best idea for a daily driver since it goes from understeer to oversteer quite easily even in bone stock form and stiffening the sway bars would only worsen that. springs/shocks should help if done right, but that has already been discussed.

davedavetC

iTrader: (4)

i didnt have any suspension upgrades. my suspension was bone stock. is this a defect with the car, like should i report this to someone because i know for a fact that the accident had nothing to do with my driving skills. im not going lie and say that i never speed. but i have gone off of off ramps doing around 60 before and no problems but the time i decide to take my time and go 30 around the ramp my car spins out on me?? doesnt make sense. should i have someone look at my car so that maybe instead of insurance blaming the accident on me it could be a mechanical problem. or am i missing the point of this thread?

make_shift

Most any good insurance company should investigate the vehicle failure angle and try to place blame on someone other than you so they can then collect from the manufacturerer rather than have to pay out them selves.

No mods. CO's in the works (once JIC finishes the tC set-up I'll hopefully be in to be a tester[finger-crossed])

More neutral is exactly what I'm after for my daily driver. I can handle it. Driving schools—I should clarify that: Performance driving schools, autox, track days, learning to drive in an oversteer prone RD and years of good driving have taught me how to drive. I'd prefer to be a touch on the oversteer side for racing, but neutral is, well, more neutral—a nice compromise from the understeering FWD cars that are produced to assist the lowest common denominator that gets overly aggressive behind the wheel.

To sum it up:
Understeer=good
Oversteer=better
Neutral=best (at least as a daily driver on surface streets in a semi-urban area with occasional track day excursions)

yesti

dave,

only thing that would be your fault is if you lifted throttle or braked at the turn exit. this would happen if you entered the turn too fast and had to brake/let off the gas to keep from going into the guard rail.

some factors beyond your control would be loose gravel, oil, or water on the road but if everyone else didn't spin out behind you that travelled the same line then there can only be so many possibilities...

about taking ramps @ 60 before, this car does not handle like other FWD 4-bangers and we are slowly seeing more and more reports of people getting in over their heads quite easily and abruptly. why you spun @ 30, i can't tell. there are a lot of variables to account for. heck even steering angle (yanking the wheel, for example) so hard to say.

yesti

Generally, I agree with you. Problem is, the tC seems to be an anomaly. Getting an otherwise understeering FWD 60/40 biased car to oversteer bone stock when getting overly aggressive behind the wheel is not something someone without the training/experience that you have can just adapt to and easily bail themselves out of. Most people when they start to lose control will brake. Especially in a FWD car since 'that is what you should do'. To curb understeer. But in doing so, this car unloads the rear and oversteers, if only slightly which seems to have taken a few people on rides they weren't expecting.

mfbenson

"Most any good insurance company should investigate the vehicle failure angle and try to place blame on someone other than you so they can then collect from the manufacturerer rather than have to pay out them selves. "

I'd bet the insurance company only does that if they start to see a pattern of a lot of a similar claims on a particular vehicle. Even then, I bet its done in a really hush-hush way...

davedavetC

iTrader: (4)

getting my insurance to look at the car... is that something i have to ask them to do? or will they do it automatically?

BiG_ReD

I would have to say, for a girl, i take corners and off-ramps a lot faster than most people and i have never had a problem. I have yoko tires tho, not stock. Eveyrthing else is what came with the car. Even in wet weather i have yet to have a problem.

yesti

yup the RE92s seem to be a huge part of the problem. going to try some bfgoodrich KDW-NT's maybe when the stockers turn to slicks (well probably a lot before then if i value the rest of the car and my body ;P). plus if one doesn't lift throttle/brake then one shouldn't have the problem ;)

yesti

OK, was taking an off ramp (which is an on ramp to another freeway) and it is straight with a right handed sweeper (wide shoulder, slightly decreasing radius). I was going at it a little aggressively so I braked hard (not enough to hit ABS) on the straight part, then took the turn (still lightly braking). the rear end definately stepped out on me a little. As soon as I felt that I hwas past the apex so I throttled it out to keep from oversteering any more. One of those 'don't do again' moves but not quite 'OS moment'. Suspension is stock, RE92's (10k miles, rotated twice), TRD rear sway bar on 'street', dry road.