400amonth

I am asking because the dealer is putting my springs in later this week. They are just putting the springs in..no alignment. So my question is does this part have to be installed during this portion of the work or will it be simple for the shop that aligns the car to take care of it? Also ordered camber bolts for the front so I guess maybe same question for that as well.

So anyone with actual experience on this subject any info would be great.

Scott

raamaudio

First of all, you absolutely need an alignment when changing the springs. Lowering your car will effect the front and rear toe in significantly resulting in handing issues, reduces fuel milage, serios uneven tire wear even to the point of ruining them in very little time. The actual results vary depending on if you get toe our or toe in changes, I forgot which it is on the tC but it is a fair amount.

Depending on the ride height of the new springs you may not need the camber links as the gained negative camber is generally a good thing if not overly aggressive. Depending on your intended uses for the car can dictate any need for the camber links as well.

The rear camber has some adjustability with the stock setup and it may do all you need.

I have Tein SS coilovers set rather low and wide tires on wide wheels. Since I am autocrossing the car alot and will take it to road race track days I need to be able to dial in the suspension for the track conditions I encounter so I have the rear camber kit. I am currently testing different settings and contrary to popular belief(which is usually correct) I am not running much rear camber at all due to wanting to induce more oversteer, a looser rear end will help the turn in an reduce understeer while negotiating tight turns on autocross courses. So far the results seem quite good in the mountain roads I have come across so far as well, in fact very neutral handling with just a slight amount of oversteer, very fast that way

Since you live in Ohio you most likely will drive in the snow, I would not want to much negative camber on the front or rear in that case probably close to stock settings for a non race car would be the best compromise with a tad more front negative dialed in. (my rain setup will have very shallow camber settings, dry contitions will be very aggressive on the front, -3 degrees or more negative camber.)

If you give us more info, intended use of the car, tire and wheels you plan to run, drive it in the snow or not, how much lower it will be, experience in high speed cornering, etc, etc, we may be able to give you a more direct answer.

For now, I would say stock rear camber which may be obtainable with the factory adjustors and a tad more front camber. Rear toe at zero, possibly slightly toed in, 1/32-1/16 max, see what the stock settins are then decide. Front toed in slightly, 1/32-1/16th again, also use the factory settings, toed in promotes straight line stability, zero toe a bit better fuel milage but tend to wander more, toed out for track use only(in most cases;)

Rick

400amonth

Factory 18" wheels and Z-rated tires. I do not drive agressive in corners or x-cross...I drive lots of highway miles so I am only concerned with perfect and even tire wear. The dealer does not do alignments. I was think I should wait a week or so to let the springs settle some before the alignment. I was just curious if not having the camber kit in hand when they do the drop is a biggie as I will have it to give to the alignment shop.

Scott

raamaudio

Cool, you will be fine without the camber kit at least for awhile, again depends on what springs, how much drop they give, as to wether you will need the links or not. The factory adjusters may be enough.

BUT, you do not want to drive it far at all unless the toe in is corrected, I have seen tires trashed in less than 50 miles from this. The lower the car the more dramatic the change in toe will occur.

I would call alignment shops to see what they will charge to install the springs and do the alignment at the same time.

You will not have a warranty issue doing this if you use a good shop.

Rick

P.S. I am sponsored by Hotchkis and stand behind their great products and highly recommend the camber links for those that have a need for them;)

SupaWhite

Definitely get an alignment ASAP. You will need to get another one a couple months down after they have settled... so the risk is just not worth it (unless you want a reason to buy some new rubber =P)

400amonth

FYI they are the TRD springs.

raamaudio

Ok, the info that is more important is how much of a drop do they provide;) The brand is not critical here the drop is because the lower it goes the more important to get the alignment done asap.

As for the rear camber links, I am just not sure if you need them or not, I would guess you do not really need them, maybe somebody else has that info on here.

As for the Camber bolts up front, they make several different ones, how did you come up with which ones to get?

As for installing whatever you are going to use, it generally would be less costly to have it done while installing the springs, the alignment shop would have to take alot of the same parts off the car to do it so you end up paying double the labor, maybe. You have to ask the Toyota service dept their charge for doing it, should be minimal but you know how dealers like to quote!!

Rick

lo_bux_racer

No need for the rear camber kit with this drop, the car will easily align with the OEM cams.

With a 2" drop, my toe went to -9/32 left front, -4/32 right front, total toe -13/32 front; 4/32 left rear, 3/32 right rear, total toe 7/32 rear. After realignment, 1/32 left and right front, total toe 1/16 front; 1/32 left and right rear, 1/16 total toe rear.

For a reference point, I had 1/16" left and right on my Supra, the OEM spec, and it ate up a set of rear tires in 8000 miles from inside edge wear enough to expose the belts with more than half tread depth in the center of the tire. All the alignment people I know and trust tell me negative camber doesn't wear out tires, improper toe does (unless you are talking in excess of -2.5 degrees). I now run my Supra at minimum spec, 1/32 total toe in and I get perfectly even wear.

So, if you don't get realigned, you could have nearly a half inch of toe in the front and a quarter inch in the rear. This will certainly lead to uneven and very rapid tire wear.

raamaudio

Great post Lance, your numbers to back up what you have to say are much appreicated.

Rick

Harmonic_tC

ok since this is such an awesome post with good info, i will ask.

I just got the tanabe nf210 coils, they drop 1.1" in front and 1.7" in rear. Will i need a camber kit? i live in illinois so im mostly city/highway mixed. plus the snow. I just putt around in the car, no racing. i like it stock but just want it lower. do you reccomend a camber kit?

lo_bux_racer

You won't need it, unless you insist on using the factory camber numbers. My camber post-drop was less than -2 on all four corners, so in all likelihood, you'll end up with more negative camber in the rear which will keep the car understeering as Toyco intended when they delivered the car.

If you want to bring the handling back towards neutral, you'll need a camber kit to add some negative camber to the front.

hupatc77

ok i don't know much about camber and all those numbers these guys are spittin out...but i have S-techs on my TC...and did get an alignment from the toyota dealer..they charged 80 bux for it. i ordered hotchikis camber links, thinking i might need them...but returned them, cuz i don't think i do anymore.. the factory adjustments seemed enough to take care of the issue...

question though...do i have to get it RE aligned? and how long do i wait to do that? toyota says i have a one year warranty on the alignment so i guess it should be covered then ...

raamaudio

Well said Lance, as usual

hup, you are ok if they did it when the springs were installed and nothing has been changed or you have not slammed a big hole in the road, slide fairly hard into a curb, etc. Just keep an eye on the tire wear, weaing down in the center, too much air. Wearing down on the inside edge, toed out to far, will also wander around at speed and tend to follow any grooves in the road. Wearing on the outside edge, toed in to far, will want to go nice and straight, if either toe is vary far off you may notice alot of "howling" when going slow, braking for a stop etc.

These are the most common issues to look for, there are a number of other things as well but generally this is your primary areas to keep an eye on.

You can feel the wear easier than see it sometimes, just rub your hand lightly over the inner and outer tread surface, one way is smooth, the other way grabby, you have a problem.

Rick

SidePocketKid

i'm thinking about getting the tein h-techs, how bad would it change the alignment settings? camber kit needed?

Clayton1

people with TRD springs and 18's is the factory rear camber adjustment enough to eliminate negitive camber??? i went to NBT and they said that i would need new rear links b/c the factory adjustment wasn't enough. were they BSin me???
thanx

raamaudio

You want some negative camber in the rear, not alot is needed but at least 1/2 degree minimum is what I would run.

1 degree would even be fine, -.56 +-.20 is factory spec, which totals -.76 on the positive side.

Just make sure they do not give you some sloppy "within" factory spec setup, demand it to be done as close to the same on each side as possible.

Rick