Quick stupid question, is the Automatic sequential shift or Tiptonic-like?
01-23-2011, 07:00 AM
#1
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Quick stupid question, is the Automatic sequential shift or Tiptonic-like?
I hear a lot of words thrown around like semi-automatic, semi-manual, Sticktonic, Tiptonic, sequential....
Could anyone explain to me what the automatic is or how it works? or give and example of other cars that might be similar?
EDIT: ohh gosh, i put this in the wrong forum, so so sorry, if a mod sees this, please move this to the appropriate forum, the main focus is the Scion tC2G auto transmission
Could anyone explain to me what the automatic is or how it works? or give and example of other cars that might be similar?
EDIT: ohh gosh, i put this in the wrong forum, so so sorry, if a mod sees this, please move this to the appropriate forum, the main focus is the Scion tC2G auto transmission
Last edited by MR_LUV; 03-11-2018 at 06:38 AM. Reason: typo
01-23-2011, 02:09 PM
#2
The automatic transmission is simply a standard 6-speed automatic when placed in D. It also allows you to choose the highest gear you want it be able to shift to when placed in S.
So you can use it like a 'manual' by starting in S1 and going all the way through S6...sort of. The thing is that it will not hesitate to shift down if it thinks it is necessary. So if you have it in S6 and you are cruising and you mash the gas a little to pass someone, it will still downshift into a passing gear on its own.
Basically choosing a gear number is like telling the transmission, "feel free to use any gear you'd like, up to this gear."
Consequently, choosing gear 6 is identical to simply placing the transmission in D because it is just like saying, "feel free to use any gear you'd like, up to gear 6."
You are nowhere close to having any kind of 'absolute' control of the transmission. The only time I use the manual mode is when I am getting prepared to pass someone on a two-lane rode, or when I am feeling frisky and want to accelerate and redline every gear.
So you can use it like a 'manual' by starting in S1 and going all the way through S6...sort of. The thing is that it will not hesitate to shift down if it thinks it is necessary. So if you have it in S6 and you are cruising and you mash the gas a little to pass someone, it will still downshift into a passing gear on its own.
Basically choosing a gear number is like telling the transmission, "feel free to use any gear you'd like, up to this gear."
Consequently, choosing gear 6 is identical to simply placing the transmission in D because it is just like saying, "feel free to use any gear you'd like, up to gear 6."
You are nowhere close to having any kind of 'absolute' control of the transmission. The only time I use the manual mode is when I am getting prepared to pass someone on a two-lane rode, or when I am feeling frisky and want to accelerate and redline every gear.
01-23-2011, 08:17 PM
#3
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The automatic transmission is simply a standard 6-speed automatic when placed in D. It also allows you to choose the highest gear you want it be able to shift to when placed in S.
So you can use it like a 'manual' by starting in S1 and going all the way through S6...sort of. The thing is that it will not hesitate to shift down if it thinks it is necessary. So if you have it in S6 and you are cruising and you mash the gas a little to pass someone, it will still downshift into a passing gear on its own.
Basically choosing a gear number is like telling the transmission, "feel free to use any gear you'd like, up to this gear."
Consequently, choosing gear 6 is identical to simply placing the transmission in D because it is just like saying, "feel free to use any gear you'd like, up to gear 6."
You are nowhere close to having any kind of 'absolute' control of the transmission. The only time I use the manual mode is when I am getting prepared to pass someone on a two-lane rode, or when I am feeling frisky and want to accelerate and Redline every gear.
So you can use it like a 'manual' by starting in S1 and going all the way through S6...sort of. The thing is that it will not hesitate to shift down if it thinks it is necessary. So if you have it in S6 and you are cruising and you mash the gas a little to pass someone, it will still downshift into a passing gear on its own.
Basically choosing a gear number is like telling the transmission, "feel free to use any gear you'd like, up to this gear."
Consequently, choosing gear 6 is identical to simply placing the transmission in D because it is just like saying, "feel free to use any gear you'd like, up to gear 6."
You are nowhere close to having any kind of 'absolute' control of the transmission. The only time I use the manual mode is when I am getting prepared to pass someone on a two-lane rode, or when I am feeling frisky and want to accelerate and Redline every gear.
Lets say I'm on a freeway and want to pass another car. if this was a regular automatic, I would just hold down the gas pedal and the car would go faster. In the case of the Scion automatic,
if all the condition are met, when I move into sequential, would I notice any changes intermediately, or like you said, set a gear limit and let the automatic figure out of its appropriate or not to shift into whatever gear?
I know the Scion tC is not a speed demon, but i was just wondering if there's anything immediately noticeable when I go from regular D to the sequential.
Last edited by MR_LUV; 03-11-2018 at 06:33 AM. Reason: typo
01-23-2011, 09:06 PM
#4
Sorry, I was finding it difficult to explain what I was trying to get across lol.
But in the example you just gave, here's what would happen: If you were cruising at highway speeds in D, your transmission would most likely be chilling in gear 6. In the tC2, as soon as you switch to S, it kicks it down to gear 4 for some reason. So you would notice a pretty substantial downshift right away, putting you in the 'sweet spot' of the tC2's power band around 4-5k RPM or so. This immediately gives you a good amount of acceleration potential to play with.
After that you can choose if you want to downshift even further, or if gear 4 will be suitable for you to make your pass. After that, you can feel free to shift up to 5 and 6 and even back over to D to resume your cruising.
And at the opposite end of that spectrum, if you are at a standstill and you place it in S, it will still start off at 4. This doesn't mean it's going to immediately switch you to 4th gear and stall you; it just means it will use gears 1 through 4 as it normally would until it gets to 4, in which case it would not move past 4 until instructed to do so.
So when coming from a standstill and you would like to use it as a 'sequential' transmission, you would need to switch to S and then knock it all the way down to 1 before beginning to drive. That way, the transmission will hold every gear until you instruct it to move up.
I hope this helps!
But in the example you just gave, here's what would happen: If you were cruising at highway speeds in D, your transmission would most likely be chilling in gear 6. In the tC2, as soon as you switch to S, it kicks it down to gear 4 for some reason. So you would notice a pretty substantial downshift right away, putting you in the 'sweet spot' of the tC2's power band around 4-5k RPM or so. This immediately gives you a good amount of acceleration potential to play with.
After that you can choose if you want to downshift even further, or if gear 4 will be suitable for you to make your pass. After that, you can feel free to shift up to 5 and 6 and even back over to D to resume your cruising.
And at the opposite end of that spectrum, if you are at a standstill and you place it in S, it will still start off at 4. This doesn't mean it's going to immediately switch you to 4th gear and stall you; it just means it will use gears 1 through 4 as it normally would until it gets to 4, in which case it would not move past 4 until instructed to do so.
So when coming from a standstill and you would like to use it as a 'sequential' transmission, you would need to switch to S and then knock it all the way down to 1 before beginning to drive. That way, the transmission will hold every gear until you instruct it to move up.
I hope this helps!
01-23-2011, 10:58 PM
#9
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thats where the confusion comes in is the wording.
S stands for sequential, but its not true sequential. according to howstuffworks.com, and the car bible, what the Scion has might be whats called "Tiptronic"
http://www.carbibles.com/transmission_bible_pg2.html
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/sequential-gearbox2.htm
S stands for sequential, but its not true sequential. according to howstuffworks.com, and the car bible, what the Scion has might be whats called "Tiptronic"
http://www.carbibles.com/transmission_bible_pg2.html
If you've owned a VW or Audi in the last few years it might have come with a TipTronic® gearbox. To you, the driver, it looks like a regular automatic gearbox but with with an H-gate for the gearshift. In normal operation, you use the gearbox just like an automatic, putting it in 'D' for Drive and just letting it go about its business. But if you click the gearstick over into the H-gate it becomes a discrete automatic, meaning you can then click it fowards and backwards like a sequential gearchange. In this mode you are basically telling the gearbox when you want it to shift rather than allowing it to shift for you. When you click it forwards for example, you're indicating a desire to go up a gear. The ECU looks at the engine speed, road speed, torque and load and if all the planets align, it shifts up by activating the relevant solenoid valves in the automatic hydraulic system.
Most TipTronic® designs do have a certain amount of idiot-proofing though, and if you try to rev the **** off the engine in first, it will override you and automatically shift up to second to save the engine. These types of gearboxes often have steering-wheel shifters either as buttons or triggers on the steering wheel (like the Mazda MX-5) or paddle-shifters. TipTronic® is actually a design from Porsche and they simply license it to other vendors, typically German manufacturers. Because it was one of the first designs to come to the mass market, this type of discrete automatic automatic gearbox is now often referred to as TipTronic® even if it isn't one of the VW/Audi/Porsche ones. Here's a non-comprehensive list of some of the manufacturers and their TipTronic® type shifts:
Acura: Sequential SportShift. Audi: Tiptronic, Multitronic (CVT). BMW: Steptronic. Chrysler/Dodge: AutoStick. Citroën: Sensodrive. Ford (Australia): Sequential Sports Shift. Honda: iShift, S-matic, MultiMatic. Hyundai: Shiftronic, H-Matic. Infiniti: Manual Shift Mode. Jaguar: Bosch® Mechatronic. Lexus: E-Shift. Mazda: Sport AT. Mercedes-Benz: TouchShift. MG-Rover: Steptronic. Mitsubishi: INVECS, INVECS II, Sportronic, Tiptronic. Nissan: Tiptronic. Vauxhall/Opel: Easytronic. Peugeot: 2Tronic. Pontiac: TAPshift. Saab : Sentronic. Subaru: Sportshift (system developed and name used under license from Prodrive Ltd.). Smart : Softip. Volkswagen : Tiptronic. Volvo: Geartronic
Most TipTronic® designs do have a certain amount of idiot-proofing though, and if you try to rev the **** off the engine in first, it will override you and automatically shift up to second to save the engine. These types of gearboxes often have steering-wheel shifters either as buttons or triggers on the steering wheel (like the Mazda MX-5) or paddle-shifters. TipTronic® is actually a design from Porsche and they simply license it to other vendors, typically German manufacturers. Because it was one of the first designs to come to the mass market, this type of discrete automatic automatic gearbox is now often referred to as TipTronic® even if it isn't one of the VW/Audi/Porsche ones. Here's a non-comprehensive list of some of the manufacturers and their TipTronic® type shifts:
Acura: Sequential SportShift. Audi: Tiptronic, Multitronic (CVT). BMW: Steptronic. Chrysler/Dodge: AutoStick. Citroën: Sensodrive. Ford (Australia): Sequential Sports Shift. Honda: iShift, S-matic, MultiMatic. Hyundai: Shiftronic, H-Matic. Infiniti: Manual Shift Mode. Jaguar: Bosch® Mechatronic. Lexus: E-Shift. Mazda: Sport AT. Mercedes-Benz: TouchShift. MG-Rover: Steptronic. Mitsubishi: INVECS, INVECS II, Sportronic, Tiptronic. Nissan: Tiptronic. Vauxhall/Opel: Easytronic. Peugeot: 2Tronic. Pontiac: TAPshift. Saab : Sentronic. Subaru: Sportshift (system developed and name used under license from Prodrive Ltd.). Smart : Softip. Volkswagen : Tiptronic. Volvo: Geartronic
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/sequential-gearbox2.htm
Because of the advantages of the sequential approach, this type of transmission is starting to appear on cars in the high-end tuner market. A sequential manual transmission is not to be confused with a "tiptronic" sort of automatic transmission. The tiptronic system may duplicate the shift lever motion of a sequential gearbox. However, because a tiptronic transmission is an automatic transmission at its core, it still has the torque converter and usually does not shift as quickly.
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