speterson82

So how much lighter would the 2024 be? And how much better do you estimate it would perform? If the costs are the same I would love to upgrade the pulley from my NST.

2tCornot2tC

Go to the original NST pulley thread (now there is the comprehensive new one), I asked them to machine me one from 2024-T3. I even said that I would pay the difference and some extra for special handling…I didn’t even get a reply back. When they posted their HP gains, I was amazed they declined my offer to design them one at half the weight…for potentially twice the HP gains. I don’t recall their HP gain. I remember it was less than 10-HP but at least 5-HP…it could have been 8-HP. But 16-HP instead of 8 for the same repetitive cost…and turning it down? I just don’t understand. Check out the history here https://www.scionlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198281&highlight=pulley

speterson82

Yeah, I remember, I followed that thread and was in the initial gb for the NST. I'll be the first to admit, I love the pulley; but knowing how good it is, I could only imagine a pulley performing twice as good at the same price. They have whatever reasons for turning down alternatives, so with the experience you're getting from having rucas manufactured, why don't you make a prototype pulley as well.

2tCornot2tC

I'm only one person...not a company. I'll do one project at a time. But I'm more interested in a mid body brace (under the chassis) that performs great than a pulley.

scottobahn

^^^ Doesn't tanabe make a mid chassis brace?

2tCornot2tC

yes...but I'm not impressed with it.

scionchicop

Could you share your knowledge is to why not?

tC2Ace

6061 is used all the time for engine parts in the air force and other air crafts... I work for a company supplying parts to Honeywell, who builds engines and sells parts directly to the government and comercial airlines... Over 30 of my parts are made from 6061 and go in their engines... And this is the material specified that we must use...

It all comes down how the alloy is heat treated (solutioned then aged) and if the parts get any finish coatings which gives the properties their strength... Any aluminum parts would be weak... Do a 1 hour heat treat quench (solution) cycle, then age to T6... You could hit it with a hammer and maybe see a slight dent or the smallest bend in thin areas... But we are talking about a pulley here... All it does is spin a rubber belt, so 6061-T6 will have more than enough strength...

Could an even lighter pulley provide better results... Possibly. Is it cost effect? Probably not. You mentioned it yourself... The turning and milling process will have to be updated and possibly slowed down to accomodate for the different property specifications = longer lead times to make a batch of parts. Add in the more expensive cost of raw forgings, plate or bar stock... Your looking at double the price or more.... $140-150 is not bad to stop wasting some horsepower... Change that to $250-$300+ and you'll see plenty of people second guessing this upgrade... Just my 2 cents from being a Production Planner for aluminum aerospace parts.

2tCornot2tC

For one, you are talking about turbine engines, and we are talking about reciprocating engines. Even for turbine engines, none of the 6061 parts are rotating - all are static. And like I said before, they are taking the place of aluminum castings...about twice as strong. That is not the application here.

As for the machining time, it is still aluminum...it will not be twice. Only the finish cut speed will be slightly slower…so what! And besides, I called that bluff on NST...I offered to pay the difference.

tC2Ace

Yeah that is BS that they wouldn't let you special order... I get what your saying though... Just wanted to put it out there that the alloy is used on some aircrafts cause you mentioned it wasn't used on any... If they are really using castings, then i hope they xray their parts... Any imperfections in the castings could cause problems after some hard use... Why wouldn't they use forgings? Way more solid, stronger and reliable in my opinion... And most of the time cheaper when bought in larger quantities.

2tCornot2tC

But a larger quantity is all relative. In the automotive industry it’s 1000/hour while in aviation it’s 100/year...who would you want to do business with?

tC2Ace

Don't know what you are getting at. I was mentioning how forgings are better and cheaper than castings when bought in bulk...

But business wise... Id rather make 100/year in aerospace than 1000/hr in automotive...

1 - only a few tens of thousands of each car are sold... And only a handful of them will actually be aggressively tuned. Take these aftermarket pulleys for example. They can run 1000/hr, yet that'll give most aftermarket dealers inventory for several months... Sell 1000 total units a month for the parent company @ $150 a piece... $15,000 a month and dwindling numbers until everyone who wants one has one...

Aviation - parts are required to be replaced on a regular basis to meet safety requirements... Most of the parts i run sell between $4000 and $9000 a piece average around $6000 X 12 per month (144 per year like you said)... Lookin at $72,000 a month for indefinite amount of years... Would definitely want to stay in the aerospace industry to run less for way more money.

blktc2

Aztcrs801, any update from AgencyPower on this pulley? I didn't notice any updates on their site.