Toshio

That's just a small site's opinion.

Toyota is still number 1 in sales.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11101263...n-global-sales

Scion202

i was not talking about the sales at all. People will buy stuff based on reputation of the past/advertisements.

McDonald aint that great and it still makes billions of dollars.

i was more reffering to the way the compony is run. Rather then being run by car enthusiasts/ people that want to make a car with a heart and soul(i know sounds kinda ___) it's being being run/operated by accountants which is pretty self explanatory......

Toshio

They probably have a small team that are car enthusiasts, but they are a business, and ultimately are here to make money.

1stOne

We like to call those people "bean counters"...

There are a few of us enthusiasts here, but not as many as you'd probably think/expect.

XerotC

THIS SO HARD.

If the car LOOKS like its suppose to have one reverse light that would be fine, but when 2-3 years goes by, there will be MORE TC2s with TWO reverse lights and we will be wasting OUR time and money to rectify TOYOTA'S MISTAKE.

If every single tc2 from now until the end of its run has one reverse light(IE xB2), it will become common knowledge with the public, but common knowledge will suggest a TC2 should have TWO reverse light.

XerotC

I must have missed it, but what does the J in the VIN and being a Japanese company have anything to do with anything?

The whole point of bringing up origination is that the 1 reverse light design originated from a (arguably) European design. VW does that alot, even if they are making cars for an American audience which makes since, because they are a European company. Toyota doesn't have that same excuse. They are a Japanese company adopting a European design for an American audience. The typical American thinks its a burned out light rather than a design. It isn't a cool European design, its a cheap cost cutting tactic.

In the case of the IPhone, it was actually a design flaw rather than a cost cutting measure. Apple wanted to increase reception by bringing the internal antenna out while still eliminating an actual rabbit ear antenna. It wasn't Apple trying to be cheap (giving the ipod a crappy camera was apple being cheap), it was Apple making a mistake. and by all means i'm not an apple fan, just trying to be fair.

Thus your comparison between the iphone antenna fiasco and toyota cheaping out on the 2011 tc2s is invalid.

nolakpd504

Who the *beeep* is www.everydaydriver.com?

Toyota products are the best out there.

The "J" in front of the VIN number means the car was made in Japan. Just like my old Hyundai had "K" for Korea. the rest of the numbers mean the engine size, package, and car number,etc.

The guy said he wanted his car to be more "American" , but he bought a car from a Japanese company. To me, if you would rather a more "American" car, you'd buy from an American car company.

One missing light bulb out of a car is probably 1-3 whopping bucks they are saving on every tC. I don't think it was a cost cutting feature. Probably 50 cents a bulb really if you think of buying in bulk. They either totally forgot about the right side(i HIGHLY doubt through all the tests and safety tests they go through), or they meant it the way it was suppose to be.

And the iPhone was a design FLAW, and the reverse light is not a design flaw. I was not comparing the two....lol

Clockwork

YOU TAKE THAT BACK.

lol

Is there a specific part number that anyone can provide to search for this light on eBay or elsewhere? I'd like to try installing this one on my own though I'll need to pick up the harness and a 1-1/16" spade/drill bit. The video is a little confusing on the location of the drilling but I figure I can look at the driver's side light to see where the hole is on that side.

Clockwork

I think Toyota's engineers are car enthusiasts. Evident to me by the company's desire to design the Scion FR-S with "the soul of the Sprinter Trueno."

XerotC

what is desired may not and usually will not lead to reality unfortunately. its nice for them to throw out nice sounding and idealistic catch phrases like that, so i guess we'll see if the the actual car will live up to their desire.

nolakpd504

On the back of the passenger lamp, there should be small folded lines (like when u fold paper it gives it that folded line) where you should cut.It's funny theres lines where it should be cut,but it's not cut already. Lol

XerotC

I won't speak for Clockwork, but he was being very sly in the way he said that last statement about Americans sticking it to Americans in a very American way. He was inferring about capitalism more than actually referring to American design. The American way is after all capticalism, and negative conotations of capitalism is The Man, Greed, and lowering the bottom end at all costs etc... Don't wanna over explain it, but he was basically saying what i said earlier that all they cared about was cutting costs to maximize profits by any means necessary.

Saying that if one wants american design they should buy american brands is a fair argument if that was Clockwork's whole point. But again, my interpretation of his post is, what does european anything have to do with this equation. Yes, toyota is a japanese company, and yes they are selling to Americans. Thus, if one buys a Toyota, they are expecting Japanese design, or a Japanese interpretation of American design. where in that formula does Europe have anything to do with this? That i believe is part of clockwork's point.

2-3 bucks, multiplied by the shear volume of cars toyota sells globally and that 2-3 bucks adds up to alot. Great for toyota of course, bad for their customers. Belittling the matter only hurts the customer. even worst if it costs 2-3 bucks for toyota to add a second light, and it costs the end customer 15-35 bucks, SO MUCH MONEY IS BEING LOST BY THE CUSTOMER.

Obviously it was not an accident, they deliberately designed it with one reverse light like they deliberately designed 2 reverse lights for the 2012. Its not a flaw, because they delierbately chose to design it in such a way. The key word is deliberate. more like a flaw in decision making.

nolakpd504

Actually the bulb would cost like not even a dollar..50 x 50,000(maybe they made?) = 25,000. Thats not even a mere penny to Toyota.

XerotC

which is all the more infuriating for the 2011 owners that only have 1 reverse light. if they are not saving that much money, they are screwing those of us who have to pay 150% mark up to fit their pennys solution. If it costs pennys to them then why can they not make a kit for us? cause that will cost even more than if they had added the light in the first place? stupid stupid mistake toyota that they should..., must perhaps, bite their loses and make this right to US.

KidJustin

me beings to think...

i wonder how feasible an backup camera would be in place of the 2nd reverse light

Scratch

iTrader: (3)

Not going to knock your price estimate, as the total amount would still be minimal, but it's probably: bulb, socket assembly, wiring... additional machining steps to drill out the lamp or have a new lamp formed with the socket already cut out...

Basically enough annoying steps that it is highly unlikely Toyota/Scion will do anything about this. I still think any of us who are not pleased should call them, just to voice the opinion.

nolakpd504

Because of the fact that a careless worker will probabaly doing some of this work and mess up and the driver will complain and receive a new lamp that costs hundreds. If it costs pennies, then thats my way of thinking that it was meant to be the way it was designed....Come on this is Toyota, one of the biggest companies out there. The cars go through a huge amount of safety tests including lights. You think they would have missed it?

I'm waiting on a company to create a set of tail lights that takes advantage of the missing reverse light. Like one side actually has one reverse light and LOOKS like it. Ha. Preferably nice looking LED lamps too. With this i think it would make my car different and unique. Also, I don't know about any of you all, but anyone who told me about my missing light said "Don't fix it! It's different from all the other cars." And i agree with them. ha. And if your thinking "What about safety concerns?" Well i actually look behind me while backing up.

Clockwork

I'm sure it won't, but I hope it does. In an effort to hit that $28k mark that has been rumored I'm sure a lot of corners will be cut and the final product isn't going to be anything like the concept cars I've seen.

More to the topic at hand: I've been to True Value, Home Depot, and Lowes - nobody has a 1-1/6" spade drill bit, not even in a bit set. I did find this one on Amazon.com for anyone interested:




Edit to add: I know it isn't a spade, but it is the right dimensions. A lot of hardware store employees I talked to said that 1-1/16" is "very specific" and I would be better off buying a 1" bit and sanding the remainder out.

donsun

use a step drill, it's easier.

Clockwork

Does anyone have a link to anyplace that sells the light/harness?

I've got the bit and the 10mm wrench, just not the actual light to install. ;)