2tCornot2tC

Here is one I like for the Gen1 tC...

http://www.hotchkis.net/scion_tc_spo...ber_links.html

Does anybody know what needs to be modified (if anything) on it make it fit the Gen2?

Info that I would need is:

1. The length from center-of-hole to center-of-hole

2. bolt diameter at each end (they look the same)

3. lenght of bushing in the arm (will it fit in or will I need washers?)

Thanks all

1stOne

And yet you still find the nerve to post here, drag this thread into the ground, and copy my original photo into each of your posts for no purpose what so ever.

If your going to post, wouldn't something useful be a better use of time?

2tCornot2tC

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stOne

However, as has been falsely stated here and in other threads about this multiple times, is that for the "best" results you must set your alignment to 0 degrees or back to 100% stock specs, regardless of suspension setup.

Well…not quite. I should have been a lot clearer. What I should have said was that if I set all 4 wheels to 0 degrees exactly of camber and toe (caster does not make that big of a difference), your car will handle significantly better than it came from the factory. No one needs a camber kit to set the camber to factory specs (you are already there)…use the factory specs as a guide for your staring point. They have engineers that have spent a significant amount of time on wheel alignment. If you are outside of their number, you are probably doing something wrong or have made some significant changes to your suspension system. But they also spend a lot of time establishing how much they can get away with. This makes the car cheaper. Cheaper manufactured cars are not better…they are just cheaper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stOne

Why do you think no one is making a rear arm to adjust camber?

Now…if I was racing like Crawford or any other big-name team, do you think I would give away any of my go-fast secrets? They did not get there doing what everybody else is doing. They got there by doing something different. If they were like everybody else, they would be mid-field, like everybody else. And, they did not get there with factory wheel alignment. I you believe that they do not have a way of adjusting the toe, camber and probably caster on all 4 wheels, then you are very naive and / or have never raced. My guess is both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stOne

You also didn't answer why the other companies will not be making camber kits...

See above answer…

Quote:

Originally Posted by rAaR

all this over some rear camber? wow

If you think this is something, you would be very amazed at what the engineers go though on the original design of each aspect of the suspension…this is very important on the handling, feel and characteristics of any car, not just the Gen2!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stOne

Nope, just in the attempt to educate about proper suspension setups. Clearly didn't work. Oh well.

Are you taking notes? You could learn something here…I’m volunteering my time here for you too…

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stOne

…second, how you measure your results. Butt-dynos are not a good indicator of "performance" FYI.

For horsepower you are correct…but one of the main reasons for adjusting the suspension is for handling characteristics and that just happens to be what the driver feels. A stable car instills confidence in the drive to push it to the limit. It is the driver’s butt that you are tuning to…in this case anyway. If the car doesn’t handle right, the car/driver aren’t going to be fast.

1stOne

Unfortunately that is all wrong. I'd suggest grabbing a few books and reading about suspension in general.

I however give up explaining. Whether you know or understand anything I've said is beyond my level of care. I just hope that others that have read this thread choose to ignore your comments in the belief that they might actually be able to get real help to their alignment related concerns.

FYI, castor is just as important as toe and camber because camber and toe are a by-product of it. Oh, and measuring things is far more accurate than feeling things...which is why alignment machines "measure" your alignment settings.

2tCornot2tC

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stOne

FYI, castor is just as important as toe and camber because camber and toe are a by-product of it.

All right now! We’ve just crossed over from statics (basic engineering) to dynamics (advanced engineering)…specifically the dynamics of suspension systems. Just from your statement is obvious that you are having a difficult time grasping the basic concepts (cause and effect) let alone the more advanced! You don’t have the spatial perception to visualize what you have just stated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stOne

I'd suggest grabbing a few books and reading about suspension in general.

I was going to suggest that you practice what you preach, and was about to suggest some books from my personal library on suspension theory and design, but then Georg Christoph Lichtenberg’s quote came to mind…"A book is a mirror; if an ___ peers into it, you can not expect an apostle to peer out." As I’ve stated above, you don’t have the spatial perception to even visualize what you are stating (writing) in two dimension let alone in three required to show dynamics of the suspension system. This is a quality of a true engineer…engineering is not for everyone. For example, when you go to a doctor, do you start explaining the way a body works to him/her. Not being an engineer, why are you trying to explain basic and now advanced engineering concepts to me? I don’t know what you are good at, but I know you are not an engineer. I’m not holding that against you, everybody has their specialty/forte. I like your enthusiasm, but you don’t even own the car you are writing about…

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stOne

...not mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stOne

Unfortunately that is all wrong.

This thread is for a way of adjusting rear camber (fronts can already by adjusted with SPC bolts) and not suspension theory… Well you got that right!

Quote:

Originally Posted by davedavetC

lol i like you 1stone.

Taking sides? We won’t hold it against you. Loyalty is an admirable quality! But, choose your sides carefully.

1stOne

I've already told you I'm done arguing with you on this. Your beliefs of suspension setups are clearly not based on fact as if they were, you wouldn't be telling people that castor is worthless and combined with camber, should be set to 0.

But, I'm reminded of a quote:

"Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference."

So with that, enjoy your 0 camber, 0 castor car. Anyone with intelligent questions, please PM me for factual answers.

2tCornot2tC

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stOne

please PM me for factual answers.

Facts are data…no need to hide it from the rear of us. If you have access to the Toyota/Scion engineering specifications (i.e. alignment data) please don’t be bashful and share it with us all. We could use it to setup our cars the way we like to. You could help us all out that way.

rAaR

was already posted?

2tCornot2tC

Quote:

Originally Posted by rAaR

was already posted?

Yes…I know…but I was not sure 1stOne knows what a fact is. He does not know what the phrase “I rest my case” means and he does not know what perfect is. Why should I assume that he knows what a fact is? Just because he paraphrases something he has read in a comic book, does not make it a fact.

Do you think that that is the only data on the rear suspension? Oy vey!

Druidiron

I am definitly a noob at suspention work, and really want TRD springs for looks alone. Im not concerned with handling improvements. I have read this entire forum and am very confused now! Im very confident I can do this myself as I have aquired a pretty nice tool/jacks/jack stand set(s) due to my last car being a 13 year old piece of crap. bottom line: Is installing TRD springs as well as getting an allignment going to negativly effect gas milage/tire wear and ride quality in my daily driver? Thanks for any replies!

2tCornot2tC

Probably not...I have not alligned my wheels yet.