Moon Roof Glass Exploding
06-09-2011, 02:06 PM
#21
To clairify:
All windows were closed, I was driving @ 65 MPH and the AC was on.
The "Toyota Engineer" said due to the air pressure, anything that touches the top of the car can cause this... I.E. meteors, bowling *****, small childeren, and especially the things you cant see, like the tips of fairy wands or unicorn horns...
I don't remember my ears poping from the increase in barometric pressure when I enable the fan in my car...
Hope this helps,
DFW
All windows were closed, I was driving @ 65 MPH and the AC was on.
The "Toyota Engineer" said due to the air pressure, anything that touches the top of the car can cause this... I.E. meteors, bowling *****, small childeren, and especially the things you cant see, like the tips of fairy wands or unicorn horns...
I don't remember my ears poping from the increase in barometric pressure when I enable the fan in my car...
Hope this helps,
DFW
...seriously WTF. I'm really curious to know what happened. ...and how this isn't a warranty issue.
06-09-2011, 02:43 PM
#22
So just to apply a TINY amount of logic here...
If it did get tapped by a peice of debris that i did not see, I have had large objects hit the winshield in various cars and was totally amazed that they didn't break.
Obviously any car with a well engineered windshield must be able to withstand small rocks, doorknobs etc...
Now one step farther, how miss-engineered would a car have to be so that a peice of horizontal glass travelling in the same direction as any possible debris (aside from someone dropping something off of a bridge) could be broken just by being stroked by a pebble or other smaller than the eye can see object...
It just doesn't make any sense.
I think I would be more comfortable if the title of the post was, "Beer bottle thru the top of the car" so at least I could attemt to miss said beer bottle.
If it did get tapped by a peice of debris that i did not see, I have had large objects hit the winshield in various cars and was totally amazed that they didn't break.
Obviously any car with a well engineered windshield must be able to withstand small rocks, doorknobs etc...
Now one step farther, how miss-engineered would a car have to be so that a peice of horizontal glass travelling in the same direction as any possible debris (aside from someone dropping something off of a bridge) could be broken just by being stroked by a pebble or other smaller than the eye can see object...
It just doesn't make any sense.
I think I would be more comfortable if the title of the post was, "Beer bottle thru the top of the car" so at least I could attemt to miss said beer bottle.
06-09-2011, 02:48 PM
#23
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CT
Posts: 190
They were investigated in 2006 by the NHTSA for failing sunroofs. Looks like they're failing again!
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/12/n...roof-failures/
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/12/n...roof-failures/
06-09-2011, 04:02 PM
#25
Um that pressure crap is BS! You have vents in the car to keep pressure from building up! They are behind the paneling in the trunk area where you would access your tailights or behind the rear bumper. I forget which one but they are there, in the first gen! And I dont care if a rock hit the panarama roof it wont break like that unless it was a freakin meteor! A rock would cause a chip or crack. I have also rode at 80+ speeds with sunroof open and no issues! Go to another dealer! I see you called Scion corporate. Good job there!
06-09-2011, 04:27 PM
#26
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 41
If the moonroof was closed, a more likely answer to this phenomenon is internal stress in the glass that was not relieved, and a pot hole relieving all that stress for you. I've heard it happen with rear windows of SUVs before (where absolutely nothing should hit it).
(If it was open, I believe there is in fact something in the manual saying is shouldn't be open at speed, and then I could see how your dealer would question paying for it)
Last edited by MR_LUV; 05-21-2018 at 04:22 AM.
06-09-2011, 04:58 PM
#27
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 187
Glass breakage is a very sensitive issue against warranty. We've had a few cases (not isolated, but across multiple vehicles) where a corp. rep will come in to take a look at the glass in question (typically the windshield). If there is not spidering or visible point of impact, they will typically take care of it. For any other piece of glass, you're basically told to go pound sand.
Check with your insurance company. Many cover glass breakage for no or very small ($100) deductible. Granted this would be a special case since it's a FULL roof replacement x_X, but possibly worth a shot if Corporate doesn't end up stepping up for a replacement.
Check with your insurance company. Many cover glass breakage for no or very small ($100) deductible. Granted this would be a special case since it's a FULL roof replacement x_X, but possibly worth a shot if Corporate doesn't end up stepping up for a replacement.
06-09-2011, 07:21 PM
#28
Sounds like you need to talk with Scion Corporate. (oops, just notice you already did) I would also ask to see the report the "Toyota Engineer" sent them with all the info. In a company the size of Toyota, nothing happens unless there is something documented, so either this is documented or the dealer is full of it. The idea of a car having A/C but not being able to use it because it might cause the moon roof to explode is ridiculous.
Another thought just came to mind. Have them write their report for you and have the service manager sign it. Just ask for something simple "for your records" stating the dealer reviewed the damage, who there contacted corporate, who from corporate responded, what corporate said and why it was determined you are required to pay for it. Have it put on Toyota letterhead and have the over service manager sign it. $20 says he "looks into it again" and finds a way to "help you this time"
Another thought just came to mind. Have them write their report for you and have the service manager sign it. Just ask for something simple "for your records" stating the dealer reviewed the damage, who there contacted corporate, who from corporate responded, what corporate said and why it was determined you are required to pay for it. Have it put on Toyota letterhead and have the over service manager sign it. $20 says he "looks into it again" and finds a way to "help you this time"
06-09-2011, 07:43 PM
#29
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CT
Posts: 190
Another thought just came to mind. Have them write their report for you and have the service manager sign it. Just ask for something simple "for your records" stating the dealer reviewed the damage, who there contacted corporate, who from corporate responded, what corporate said and why it was determined you are required to pay for it. Have it put on Toyota letterhead and have the over service manager sign it. $20 says he "looks into it again" and finds a way to "help you this time"
There are so many b/s reasons Toyota will give you to get out of paying for it. They'll tell you that road debris hit it causing a scratch in the surface weakening the tensile strength of the outer layer of glass which allowed the inner layer to explode outwards. They'll tell you it was cabin air pressure that was somehow strong enough to make glass explode but not your ears. They'll tell you that the temperature difference of the outside glass in the sun varied too much from the inside temperature from the AC. Hell they'll tell you that your music was too loud!
The fact is, Scions have a documented history of breaking sunroofs. You can find cases on these forums dating back to 05. And as I posted before the NHTSA stepped in during 06. If this continues to be an issue, I think another call to NHTSA is warranted.
06-09-2011, 10:51 PM
#32
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 643
I hope you didn't pay for it. I'd flat out refuse to pay for it. And if you're dealership is going to be a bunch of hard asses, and you're financing this thing through Toyota, call them up and tell them you're not going to be paying for the car anymore until this matter is straighten out. See how fast they'll jump to correct this.
06-10-2011, 01:42 AM
#36
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 187
I've never seen anything like that before. It does look like an equal force hit it from all sides to cause this, so I see why they are suggesting "pressure" (though it's definitely not the likely case). I would try to send these over to Corp. with your case id to resolve it. Looks very interesting and worth further investigation on their part, at least I believe so.
06-10-2011, 05:36 AM
#39
Chassis flex, improper installation or a bad piece of glass from the factory would be my guess. It is a warranty issue. A sledge hammer blow from the inside would not produce those results. Safety glass is not easy to break.
Nick, throw your sub in and enjoy. I am running a 12' sub pretty hard in 100+ degree weather everyday with windows and sunroof shut tight, a/c wide open.
Nick, throw your sub in and enjoy. I am running a 12' sub pretty hard in 100+ degree weather everyday with windows and sunroof shut tight, a/c wide open.
06-10-2011, 06:34 AM
#40
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 361
Common sense may suggest if pressure can cause glass to explode during regular driving conditions than there's definitively fundamental problems with the design and engineering of the car.
If the engineer says its pressure that caused this, i would argue that it is all the more reason why Toyota is responsible.
If the engineer says its pressure that caused this, i would argue that it is all the more reason why Toyota is responsible.
Last edited by MR_LUV; 05-21-2018 at 04:38 AM.