My dad is taking a new job that's going to be over an hours drive each way, and
he's going to need a new car.

He's looking at the base model Honda Civic, and the xA as his two options.
At first he dismissed the xA outright, but after seeing the stock options and price,
he said it's under serious consideration.

I know several people here have come from the Honda world, so I'm looking for
facts and opinions on the Civic vs. the xA. I'd much rather he get the better car,
rather then push and prod him into an xA simply to have another Scion in the family.

Any and all help is greatly apprecaited!

 

XA's got more standard options than the base civic, that should be a big selling point right there. as far as for MPG i'd say it's about the same.

 

Three free oil changes is the first thing that pops to mind. Also the chance to be unique and not just be another person driving a Honda. Hondas are bland and boring and are for middle aged people.

Scions are for the young and young at heart who want to be unique.

I've had my xA for about 5 months now and I absolutely love it. I can also go for a 1-2weeks without getting gas which is great!

 

1-2 weeks w/ what kind of driving and how many miles during that time?

 

Well as I said, I'm looking for the better car. Being different
or young at heart means absolutly nothing to my father.
He just needs super reliable, efficient, and safe.

From his research, the base model civic is cheaper then
the xA, but after you add A/C which is an absolute for my
old man, it brings it up to the xA price.

 

bring up the standard power options, which i know is not available on the base model civic, i almost bought a base model civic and was about to sign the papers when a buddy of mine called me the night before and said, what is that new brand, Scion. tell him the xA is bigger on the inside, the hatch is a nice feature, and its a toyota, but the power windows,locks,mirrors and the more storage on the inside. He should be sold

 

That's what I wanted to hear!!

One worry that he has, is he's going to be sometimes driving
his grandaughter (my sisters, not mine) in the child seat in
back, and he's worried that the xA has such a short rear
end compaired to the Civic.

I think he's being a bit nutty, but I'm going to visit Raul at
Elmhurst Scion where I got my box and make sure my dad
takes a nice long test drive!

 

The xA also is significantly less likely to be broken into and/or stolen, statistically speaking. Significantly less likely is an understatement, if you actually look at the numbers. . . although it may not be as much an issue in Illinois than here in CA. Put it this way, in order to steal a deck off a Scion, you have to remove some screws to get the dash open, and undo some screws to get the deck out. For the Civic, it's grab and pull! And thieves will usually take your climate control unit with your deck (as it comes out in one piece). They'll cut the wires, and seperate the deck out later.

 

The Civic has the better handling and better handling potential since it has a real independent rear suspension instead of the semi-independent torsion beam you find in the xA and xB. That means it will steer more precisely over uneven surfaces and remain more composed and require less minor steering corrections through turns and twists.

The xA and Civic will accelerate roughly equally, the xA has a shorter final drive, so it will jump off the line a little more, but the Civic will be quieter and more fuel efficient on the highway. The Civic's stick is more precise and velvety than the Scions, Honda is known for that, but the Scions aren't bad.

The xA is almost certainly the better value overall given all the standard features, but the Civic has many virtues of its own.

Everyone will tell you that a Civic will get stolen in 3 seconds and no one will ever steal your Scion based on statistics (never mind that there are 10,000 times more Civics to steal on the road! Hello?)

The truth is, you should get an alarm either way. A basic keyless entry alarm from the dealer on either car will prevent it from being stolen.

Considering how popular Scions are with the tuner/riceboy crowd and the young people, I think it's a real mistake to assume they are any safer from being stolen than a Civic.

A Civic with an ignition disabling alarm isn't going ANYWHERE and neither will a Scion.

I think your Dad should go with the Civic Si perhaps or a tC if he is a driving enthusiast used to a real rear suspension and competent handling.

If he just needs a good economy car, xA or xB are suitable for that duty and either one is an excellent value.

 

Awesome insite on the Civic, thanks Rion.

 

another thing is the dealer...every Scion dealer ive been to, and i did shop around a bit considering we have 3 within a 20 minute drive here, they all actually care. i honestly was dead set on a civic until the phone call, the civic back seat is cramped, and im assuming it would be awkward to put a car seat back there. ive put 10k miles on mine since dec. 10, ive owned 8 cars in the last 2 years and this is the only one i dont regret buying, and ive had everything, Explorer,Focus,Jetta,Accord,Grand Am,Grand Cherokee, Integra. Ive now grown up, and the car is solid. Its bulletproof...if you need anymore convincing, pm me and ill give you my cell phone number so i can do some convincing. He has to get an xA. Enough said...i may sound a little biased, but the honda dealer treated me like i was a 10 year old child. I knew what was going on and they tried to screw me, so i got me a Scion and im keeping it forever, and im in the process of getting a second car, an xB for a play toy

 

dude, I analyze statistics on a daily basis. . . it's my career and expertise. Percentages are percentages, regardless of the number that exist on the road.

For instance, the odds are slim that you will survive if you jump off a cliff. The number of people who jump are few. That fact, in no way, reduces the FACT that that you are statistically likely to die from jumping off a cliff.

Or here's another example. There is a high statistical chance that if you walk outside on a rainy day, you will get wet. Just because lots of people are walking outside, it does NOT reduce the chance that you will get wet.

You can't use your bargain basement guesses to counter proven data. Few Scions are sold, compared to Civics. And based on the RATIO, RATIO, RATIO! Scions are stolen on a much smaller RATIO than Honda Civics. . . and RATIO's account for differences in sample size. The theft rate on Civics is the theft rate on Civics. Now quoting stories would be a different matter. . . that would be a high rate of instance.

All your other points do make sense, but also note that the xA performs very well, when you compare it to cars in its class and above, even those with "better" suspension. Slalom, Braking, etc, the xA holds its composure. There have actually been higher instances of tC's randomly flying uncontrolled off the road than xA's, and the tC's have fully independent suspension. Also note that the Sentra SE-R V has a twist beam in the back and handles fine. These aren't race cars, you know. . . but I do agree that a fully independent suspension is better, I just don't see it as that important in this class of cars. It's a moot point to me, and probably 99% of consumers.

Most of what you say makes sense, and I agree with most of it, but you are absolutely making no sense with your statistics comments. . . I don't want to keep arguing with you, but I DO KNOW what I'm talking about, and anyone who's ever spent 5 minutes learning how to read statistics would agree on my assessment. But hey, it's a free board, so rant away. You know what they say about the internet. . . it's such a great way to get REALLY BAD information

 

Alright, I guess we will have to take your word on it since you provided everything except actual reputable data to back up your assertion.

RATIO, RATIO, RATIO? Whatever. We all know what a ratio is. You don't need a masters degree in statistics to understand that.

Post factual data from a reputable source or you're wasting our time, OK?

If you read the point I made about the alarm system though, you'd realize its a moot point. You act as if it is foolsih to buy a Civic because its going to get stolen 2 days after you get it. Put an ignition disabling alarm in it and it's not going anywhere. End of story. Sh*t, put a $20 gas pedal lock in it and it will stay put.

Not a very effective argument against the Civic, even if you did provide a shred of valid evidence to support your point.

That is a good point about the dealership that xawahi made though. The Scion buying experience is as painless and easy as you can imagine. It took me 1 hour total to buy my car, finance it, get insurance and drive it home. If that is a factor for your dad, then it's worth considering.

And like I said, I do think the xA/xB are a better value than the Civic. The Civic is really overpriced and very little comes standard in the cars. You can spend close to $20,000 on a Civic and wind up with not much more than you get standard on an xA/xB.

 

Limited xA... I almost picked one up on impulse when buying my tC ;) It looked so awesome in the showroom..

Anyways.. Does the base BASE civic even have power steering? I had a base 1996 Civic and a base 1999 civic, neither had power steering and that SUCKED...

I also had a 2004 Civic Si (my car between my xB and tC), and it was a very nice car. But it was also extremely over-priced for what it was.. It got terrible (UNDER or directly on 20 mpg) gas mileage, and insurance was a complete nightmare, I was told by my insurance company that the Civic Si is a car that people love to crash. hehe

The only civic that I really felt was a really good car was the 1996, the 99 felt like driving a big turd, and the Si had the gas, insurance, etc etc problems..

No, I have not driven a 2000+ base model civic, but I have driven an xA, and have owned an xB.. You get tilt, power, BETTER INTERIOR FABRICS (big one for me), just better all around options for the money.. And based on whatever the hell I am basing it on, I would get the xA...

They are both good, solid cars.. I'm sure he'll like whichever one he decides on.

 

I did a study on this in the past, but the sites with data are not available anymore. . . but here is something close. . . enough.

It's not about the vehicle getting stolen, so it is a MOOT point. . . it's about break-ins. . . it takes a long time to find the actual and accurate data regarding this, as the NICB, CCC, and NHTSA data only account for vehicle theft, and not property theft within the vehicle, (and the NHTSA data only counts model year to production of that year, which is flawed as it does not accurately account for true market share).

But even counting vehicle theft, if you search for a NICB or CCC spreadsheet on theft rate, you will find newer model Civics near the top, as well as older Toyota's. Now if you find somewhere (a business analyst site) that will list Civic market share from 2000-2004, add up the numbers and compare the theft totals with Corolla (which to my recollection has a close market share), you can make a comparison. And in order for Scion thefts to surpass the Civic, it would have to have a higher theft rate (based on the market share sum) than Civics, which was a high number, both in total thefts and share of production.

I'm not going to crunch all these numbers just for you. . . if you were my employer or if this were for an internship or a resume, that'd be different. I don't really care what you do or think, but also realize that your counter-claims are in no way different. You've neither presented numbers nor factual data either (as you probably know there is extensive amounts of data, and very little access to it).

 

Here's safety for you:

Insurance Institute for Highway safety gave the xA the highest safety rating in rearend crashes.

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_rat...head_scion.htm

Thats the direct link if you want to show him. It's a pretty safe car. I was looking into a Volvo, so if it's safe enough for me, it's gotta be safe enough for him.

 

I went into test drive a Honda (West Co. Steven Vincel) when I lived in St. Louis and they told me if I didn't plan on buying the car that day that I didn't need to test drive it. I said "Screw You" and walked out. Mature I know right, but that has turned me off to Honda's all together.

 

When I was shopping for a Metro replacement last fall I went into the local Honda place to dicker on their most fuel efficient Civic. It does not come with air conditioning. OK with me. The salesman told me that their dealership does not sell vehicles which are not equipped with air conditioning. And they do not install air conditioning in the Civic. We had nothing to talk about after that.

 

 

I find it ironic that the guy that asks for facts to support djct_watt's arguement can't provide any for his own.

Anywho, this is offtopic from what LonelyRaven asked for.
1. Insurance should be less.
2. 3 free oil changes.
3. Much better standard equipment/material of the interior.