DoWopBx

Has anyone tried this? I'm thinking of trying it. If I do, I'll post the results.

http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

superfreestyle

i dont know man...... thats kinda risky..... depends on how much you trust that website

crayonBOX

ethanol maybe... but acetone? dont use 'nail polish remover' thats got additives written alloverit

Tomas

My xB has been running acetone for the past few months. Too early to report on any "results" yet, expecially since we are having to use our "winter" gasoline mix right now (and driving in worse conditions).

When good weather rolls around again and I've had a couple tanks of "summer mix" through the engine, I'll let folks know.

So far no "bad" effects, and the engine remains 'happy.'

If you are interested, there are some existing threads on acetone use you can search for here...

bubblemyster

ahh. I was just about to ask you too.

frogbox

No ill effects. 2 oz every-other tank for about 9 months now.

High of 42 mpg low of 35 mpg combination driving.

Found that the brand of gas also has to do with it. If you try it, use different stations to find if it is working for you.

Found Chevron, Arco to work best, Valero(BP) to be the worst. Shell was middle ground.

It also seems to keep the plugs cleaner, after all most of the fuel system cleaner you use contains Acetone as the carrier.

And use good acetone, you can find it at hardware stores. That way you'll know it's pure with no additives.

Biznox

Completely unscientfic here guys.

The only difference in gasoline that would affect your fuel economy is oxygenation and all fuel in your metro area is going to be oxygenated the same according to time of year. Brand of gasoline affecting MPG is as ridiculous as claiming one brand gives you more horsepower than the other.

As far as acetone goes, it never ceases to amaze me what things people will do in the pursuit of screwing up a car that is working perfectly well as designed. Why don't you try pouring that acetone on your paint job, that should give you 10 more mpg.

Matt_Moore

I've hear that using acetone in the gasoline prematurely wears seals and gaskets.

Its only what I've hear though.

Tomas

Let's just check these statements here, Biz...

Let's start by reviewing some scientific background information from Chevron. (See https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...=asc&&start=75)

Chart: http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...ery.asp?img=26 There is a lot more information available, pages and pages of it, if you follow any of the links in that prior post I linked to. One thing you will find is that winter and summer blends of gasoline differ, even excluding the addition of oxygenators, and that while oxygenators are required in some areas, the requirement can be met by several different oxygenators, each in a range of quantity, so that the oxygenation between one brand and the next may be substantially different in some regions.

In this region, for example, there is only one refinery, that blends gasolines for several brands. Other brands come from 'remote' refineries. In addition to that, if the oxygenate is ethanol, it is often added to the individual truckloads just prior to delivery because of its propensity to absorb water into the gas mix, especially in our local environment. This means that the quantity of oxygenate can easily vary by the tanker-load even amongst the same brands.

(There has also, historically, been a problem with one of the national brands, refined locally at Cherry Point when distributed in this region, having water problems when delivered. That same refinery recently had a huge problem with some plastic compounds, that should NOT have been in ANY gasoline, being added at the refinery to the blends for several brands and negatively affecting injectors in thousands of cars in the region that had to be flushed and repaired - at the refiner's expense. I can search for some of the news items on that if necessary.)

Anyway, gasoline supplies are not necessarily uniform in an area, and substantial differences between brands can be readily and easily observed. Empirically, from my own experience, I can show that changing the brand of gasoline in my xB between two "top tier" national brands in the same town can consistantly display a 3 to 4 MPG difference over the same routes with the same driver.

Bottom line, the actual 'scientific data,' with footnotes and references, provided by one of the "top tier" refiners, and my own personal experience from the detailed records kept for each gallon used in my cars, shows that gasoline in my area is NOT consistant brand to brand nor season to season, and that the level and even type of oxygenates in the local supply is not consistant.

There are noticable differences in gasolines, and it is not just the 'additive package' added to the mix.

(Sorry for the long post, but there's a lot of info needed to back up my bottom line statement without just resorting to an unsupported "You're wrong and I'm right" statement.)

Still, though, in your limited local area you may be absolutely correct, Biz - it's just that your statements do not apply universally.

Biznox

Do you guys really have nothing better to do with your time?

Buy a Prius or a Volkswagen TDI if you're that obsessed with MPG...jeezus

p2filz

oxygenated is that what u said? oxygenated... what does that mean... oxidizing maybe but oxynegated man my head hurts reading the above thats why i wont repost it!

Biznox

Gasoline is oxygenated to lower emissions but it is said to cars run slightly less efficiently.

frogbox

Thank You for posting the information Tomas. I was going to but if you read my sig you'll see why I didn't.

Funny how when some folks say it is unscientific they know nothing of anothers background and when confronted with facts to back up their statements they can only
reply with coments that are uncalled for and/or unnessary.

But, as I posted earlier, I have been "testing" different products and claims to either prove or disprove their abilities ( and I even get paid, it's one of my jobs). So far the acetone testing has worked better than I thought it would. maybe at the end of the 12 month test I will be able to post up the entire paper with all the indepth procedures that someone said were "unscientific".

But thanks again Tomas.

Tomas

Oxygenated gasoline is a mixture of conventional hydrocarbon-based gasoline and one or more oxygenates. Oxygenates are combustible liquids made up of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. All the current oxygenates belong to one of two classes of organic molecules: alcohols and ethers.

The most widely used oxygenates in the U.S. are ethanol, methyl tertiary-butyl ether (MTBE) and tertiary-amyl methyl ether (TAME). Ethyl tertiary-butyl ether (ETBE) is another ether that could be used.

Oxygenated gasoline leans the air-fuel mixture of carbureted engines and fuel injected engines that don't have an electronic control module (ECM). Engines with ECMs become fuel lean when the ECM is not controlling — when the engine is cold or the vehicle is being accelerated rapidly. The rest of the time, the ECM adjusts the air-fuel ratio to compensate for the oxygen in the fuel.

Conventional gasoline, depending on its aromatics content, can dissolve up to 150 parts per million (ppm) water at 21°C (70°F). Oxygenating gasoline with ethers can increase water solubility to 600 ppm. Contacting either conventional gasoline or ether-oxygenated gasoline with additional water will not affect the properties of the gasoline but can make it hazy in appearance.

The situation is different for gasoline oxygenated with 10 vol % ethanol. The gasoline-alcohol blend can dissolve more water (6000–7000 ppm at 21°C/70°F). When this blend is cooled, both the water and some of the ethanol become insoluble. Contacting the blend with more water also draws ethanol from the blend. The result, in both cases, is two layers of liquid: an upper ethanol-deficient gasoline layer and a lower ethanol-rich (up to 75% ethanol) water layer. The process is called phase separation and it occurs because ethanol is completely soluble in water but only marginally soluble in hydrocarbons. After phase separation, the gasoline layer will have a lower octane number and may knock in an engine. The fuel also is less volatile. The engine will not run on the water/ethanol layer.

In this region ARCO used to have a big problem with this happening to the mixes they used, which required draining car gas tanks and cleaning the fuel system to get rid of the water. The other major brands didn't seem to have this happen...

(A lot of this stuff is extracted from the Chevron info linked above...)

Anyone really interested should read the Cheveron pages - LOTS of good info.

RTon20s

Aren't you the one who also stated that if you want to make your xB quicker you should have bought another car?

So what are those of us who bought boxes to do? We are idiots if we want better mileage. We are idiots if we want better performance. What's next? Is there anyone out there who you feel actually made the right decision in choosing a Scion xB?

I for one applaud all of the people on here who are trying to push the limits set forth by Toyota's design.

clorox99

Good article explaining why not..
http://www.fuelsaving.info/acetone.htm

Biznox

The Scion is great just the way it is. I think it's hilarious that people think they are going to outsmart the engineers who designed this vehicle by beleiving old wives tales and BS they read on the internet. Yeah, put acetone in your gas tank and stuff a sock in the tailpipe. Whatever. You aren't going to do a better job than engineers who know 100,000 times more about how these things work than you ever will. It's stupid to even try but everyone needs a hobby I guess.

Tomas

Clorox, that site has a lot of interesting information, and is written by an engineer with experience in gasoline engines.

A lot of his opinions (they are opinions, since not 'proved' by empirical testing) are based on 'contradictions' in other person's opinions. While this can be (and is) a telling feature of many people's opinions, he is not immune himself from contradictions in his statements about fuel use.

For example, in one place he says and in another In my regional market there is WIDE variation in alcohol content 'at the pump' between brands, especially in winter. While in one statement he grandly dismisses the possibility of there being more than a 1-2% difference in fuel economy between tanks in the other he equates an "E10" mix (used by some suppliers in some fuels in this area) with an automatic 3-4% difference...

While I give his opinions great weight (I've read his stuff before) he is not without error. There are some others who have other opinions. In each case I weigh the opinions and the support they have for them (if any), and form my own opinions. Bottom line, however, a lot of what I believe is based on personal experience.

If I actually 'see' it, I tend to believe it. If I do not, I hold it as 'theory.' Right now I am doing some empirical testing on acetone. I don't honestly expect it to make a difference. What I 'see' for myself will be the basis for my final opinion.

Thanks for the link! It's all about continuing to learn. :D

Er, speaking of links, here's a link to the "problem" with some gasoline that affected several thousand vehicles in this area in early 2005 that I mentioned in an earlier post: http://tijil.org/badgas01.html. As I was saying, not all gas is equal, even in a limited regional area.

Tomas

Biz, just give it up. Most of your comments and opinions show little thought or understanding, and the only one you have made in this topic with checkable information content:
is incorrect.

Scott17

Gasoline in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area varies wildly year-round. Sometimes it causes drivability problems and I have emptied more than a few tanks that were full of diesel (coming out of the unleaded pump). I'd say other than air density, fuel quality is the next largest variable today. It DOES make a difference, it just may not make a difference to you.