Need Help with Cam Con
#1
Need Help with Cam Con
Hey all
Now, im thinkin about getting a Cam con unit after seeing how much HP it is good for. I have a few questions, i hope someone can help me with.
1) How do i install it! i saw that theres alot of splicing of wires and such but how do i di it? is there Instructions that come with it?
2) How do i tune it? ive heard that tuning it makes all the difference..
Thanks
Dave
Now, im thinkin about getting a Cam con unit after seeing how much HP it is good for. I have a few questions, i hope someone can help me with.
1) How do i install it! i saw that theres alot of splicing of wires and such but how do i di it? is there Instructions that come with it?
2) How do i tune it? ive heard that tuning it makes all the difference..
Thanks
Dave
#3
Wiring
The camcon is not too hard to wire once you have the book and the sheet showing the various plug configurations.
1. Find the ECU
If you get down and look under the glovebox, you will see a black panel covering the ECU for the Scion Xb. Pull the cover off and expose the 4 plugs. I find it easier to remove the glovebox to see and work on things. You can kind of bend one side of the box in to get the left side to slide out and then the right side will pop out too. Once you see the ECU plugs, then things become easier to understand.
2. See Chart Included in Box
Here is the chart for the Xb. You will be hacking into plugs 1, 2 and 4. There are 3 wires on plug 1, one wire on plug 2, and one wire on plug four. (I mistakenly said plug 3 earlier and want to be clear that it is plug 4)
3. Here are the plugs
I've wrapped a zip tie around the plugs that get camconned.
4. The Wires
The camcon wiring harness is a little confusing at first since there are so many wires, but four of the wires you never use since they are for honda applications. Tie them off or move them away to simplify things.
Three of the wires get connected into and not cut, and two of the wires get intercepted and forced through the camcon.
On plug 4 is the power wire...this gets connected to the red power wire on the camcon harness. On plug one on the left are the rpm+ and rpm-, these get connected into. This leaves only two wires...the CAM wire and the AFC wire. These wires get cut, as opposed to spliced into. The camcon AFC CP wire connects to the wire hanging from the ECU plug. And then the camcon AFC goes to the wiring going into the vehicle. We have essentially grabbed the computer signal, altered it, and then re-sent it on its way. That is the wire that controls the Air Flow level and richness. The camcon CAM CP wire then goes to the wire sticking out of plug one for the CAM and the camcon CAM wire goes to the wire now left going to the engine. This essentially grabs the camshaft signal from the ECU, camcon alters it, and then sends it on its way to the engine.
The kit comes with all the plugs you need to do this. It helps a lot if you have some basic crimping tools or needle nose pliers. Some people choose to soldier which is probably the best method. I like to use different wire crimps and so I used my own plug ends.
Follow the manuals instructions on page 10 with regards to the MALE and FEMALE choices for the plugs. This is to prevent wiring in reverse and perhaps hurting the unit or throwing check engine lights.
With Toyotas, you do not change the dip switches. They are all in the OFF position. The July issue of Import Tuner did a 2-3 page write up on the unit. ScottsdaleTC had excellent results with the unit here. My first dyno test with the unit did not find any hidden power but I believe I need to test again since I was struggling to set the AF map.
There is a PDF of the camcon manual online but I've lost the link. You can get the japanese manual on the jp site. Maybe someone here knows the other link?
Testing
Most of your testing will be on the cam timing side. You will want to do 2-3 baseline runs at the dyno, and then do perhaps 8 runs with timing spaced from -20 to +20 in steps of 5. Here is a chart I made to record the results. You might find this helpful. You will end up with a semi filled in sheet which should help you locate the best setting for each rpm level.
In the end you will be able to creat a cam timing map that might look like this.
Lastly you will move onto Air Fuel. Your dyno operator should be making AF curves, perhaps like this. From that graph, you can make small adjustments (with the expert advice of your dyno operator) to the camcon to try and influence the AF map for max performance. I think the mistake I made was that we set the unit to the extreme...and in the manual, it says this can throw a check engine light...we didn't have that occur but perhaps it temporarily wigged out the ECU or the camcon. You must be careful with AF settings since too lean of conditions can cause detonation. Detonation can lose engines...pistons can get chunked and piston rings can melt...so make small moves on AF or just watch low level rpm levels to make sure you are ok before revving. Detonation does not occur as easily down low and doesn't cause as much damage if it occurs. As a side note, most engines can handle some detonation...have you ever been in a car towing a boat up a hill and the engine starts to ping or jingle? That is detonation. Small amounts won't hurt an engine but repetitive and or large amounts will beat an engine up. Here is an engine I blew up on the stand once...you can see that the race pistions in cylinders one and eight got bit...the detonation hammering took a chunk off the piston in the thinest area. That engine was making darn near 700hp when it blew. haha. I'm sidetracked on a tangent here just use the dyno data to adjust your AF settings slowly and carefully and you will be fine.
When you test at a dyno, try to standardize all runs. The most important thing you can do is to control engine temperature. You must do all runs at the exact same engine temperature...or else the data you are seeing is voodoo and not the truth. It is not accurate to look at your dashboard "temp" guage...this could have temp varying from 5-20 degress. Hopefully your dyno operator will have more accurate methods of monitoring engine temp.
hope this information is helpful
Andy
The camcon is not too hard to wire once you have the book and the sheet showing the various plug configurations.
1. Find the ECU
If you get down and look under the glovebox, you will see a black panel covering the ECU for the Scion Xb. Pull the cover off and expose the 4 plugs. I find it easier to remove the glovebox to see and work on things. You can kind of bend one side of the box in to get the left side to slide out and then the right side will pop out too. Once you see the ECU plugs, then things become easier to understand.
2. See Chart Included in Box
Here is the chart for the Xb. You will be hacking into plugs 1, 2 and 4. There are 3 wires on plug 1, one wire on plug 2, and one wire on plug four. (I mistakenly said plug 3 earlier and want to be clear that it is plug 4)
3. Here are the plugs
I've wrapped a zip tie around the plugs that get camconned.
4. The Wires
The camcon wiring harness is a little confusing at first since there are so many wires, but four of the wires you never use since they are for honda applications. Tie them off or move them away to simplify things.
Three of the wires get connected into and not cut, and two of the wires get intercepted and forced through the camcon.
On plug 4 is the power wire...this gets connected to the red power wire on the camcon harness. On plug one on the left are the rpm+ and rpm-, these get connected into. This leaves only two wires...the CAM wire and the AFC wire. These wires get cut, as opposed to spliced into. The camcon AFC CP wire connects to the wire hanging from the ECU plug. And then the camcon AFC goes to the wiring going into the vehicle. We have essentially grabbed the computer signal, altered it, and then re-sent it on its way. That is the wire that controls the Air Flow level and richness. The camcon CAM CP wire then goes to the wire sticking out of plug one for the CAM and the camcon CAM wire goes to the wire now left going to the engine. This essentially grabs the camshaft signal from the ECU, camcon alters it, and then sends it on its way to the engine.
The kit comes with all the plugs you need to do this. It helps a lot if you have some basic crimping tools or needle nose pliers. Some people choose to soldier which is probably the best method. I like to use different wire crimps and so I used my own plug ends.
Follow the manuals instructions on page 10 with regards to the MALE and FEMALE choices for the plugs. This is to prevent wiring in reverse and perhaps hurting the unit or throwing check engine lights.
With Toyotas, you do not change the dip switches. They are all in the OFF position. The July issue of Import Tuner did a 2-3 page write up on the unit. ScottsdaleTC had excellent results with the unit here. My first dyno test with the unit did not find any hidden power but I believe I need to test again since I was struggling to set the AF map.
There is a PDF of the camcon manual online but I've lost the link. You can get the japanese manual on the jp site. Maybe someone here knows the other link?
Testing
Most of your testing will be on the cam timing side. You will want to do 2-3 baseline runs at the dyno, and then do perhaps 8 runs with timing spaced from -20 to +20 in steps of 5. Here is a chart I made to record the results. You might find this helpful. You will end up with a semi filled in sheet which should help you locate the best setting for each rpm level.
In the end you will be able to creat a cam timing map that might look like this.
Lastly you will move onto Air Fuel. Your dyno operator should be making AF curves, perhaps like this. From that graph, you can make small adjustments (with the expert advice of your dyno operator) to the camcon to try and influence the AF map for max performance. I think the mistake I made was that we set the unit to the extreme...and in the manual, it says this can throw a check engine light...we didn't have that occur but perhaps it temporarily wigged out the ECU or the camcon. You must be careful with AF settings since too lean of conditions can cause detonation. Detonation can lose engines...pistons can get chunked and piston rings can melt...so make small moves on AF or just watch low level rpm levels to make sure you are ok before revving. Detonation does not occur as easily down low and doesn't cause as much damage if it occurs. As a side note, most engines can handle some detonation...have you ever been in a car towing a boat up a hill and the engine starts to ping or jingle? That is detonation. Small amounts won't hurt an engine but repetitive and or large amounts will beat an engine up. Here is an engine I blew up on the stand once...you can see that the race pistions in cylinders one and eight got bit...the detonation hammering took a chunk off the piston in the thinest area. That engine was making darn near 700hp when it blew. haha. I'm sidetracked on a tangent here just use the dyno data to adjust your AF settings slowly and carefully and you will be fine.
When you test at a dyno, try to standardize all runs. The most important thing you can do is to control engine temperature. You must do all runs at the exact same engine temperature...or else the data you are seeing is voodoo and not the truth. It is not accurate to look at your dashboard "temp" guage...this could have temp varying from 5-20 degress. Hopefully your dyno operator will have more accurate methods of monitoring engine temp.
hope this information is helpful
Andy
#5
Yep hotbox05 as I said above, I didn't have much luck with the unit. Since I believe in good science, I don't think my one experience is enough to draw conclusions from. Either I have a bad unit, or the testing procedures used by the two other dynos (import tuner article and ScottsdaleTC's experience) are not as stringent as the procedures used at Westech. One thing that concerns me about ScottsdaleTC's dyno tests are that the first day the temperature was 103F and the next day the temperature was 85F. These are large changes and cooler air temps make for more HP. I'm not positive, but I don't think they did a new baseline on day two with the camcon off, then on and zero'd out, then with the good settings. Two people have had good camcon experiences and my experience did not find power. I think we need to see more tests.
#6
hmm i'm thinking the cam con will work alot better with fi to fatten it up under the conditions. hmmm . well it;'s worth a shot . and maybe your unit is defective. who knows. good job with the dyno work i was reading all that and man. that is frickin precise lol. good stuff.
#7
Originally Posted by Twiddler
Yep hotbox05 as I said above, I didn't have much luck with the unit. Since I believe in good science, I don't think my one experience is enough to draw conclusions from. Either I have a bad unit, or the testing procedures used by the two other dynos (import tuner article and ScottsdaleTC's experience) are not as stringent as the procedures used at Westech. One thing that concerns me about ScottsdaleTC's dyno tests are that the first day the temperature was 103F and the next day the temperature was 85F. These are large changes and cooler air temps make for more HP. I'm not positive, but I don't think they did a new baseline on day two with the camcon off, then on and zero'd out, then with the good settings. Two people have had good camcon experiences and my experience did not find power. I think we need to see more tests.
The importance of keeping everything relevant is difficult. We just had a dyno meet, pictures at www.scionetics.com under picture albums. The dyno is a dynapack that bolts to the hubs, no wheels. The temperature I think was around 109, over 100 you don’t much care. The TC sat for 5 hours, it was late and cool, I think the 90’s and the shop has coolers running. We hooked the TC up, the exact same Camcon setting, did not change anything. The TC pulled 157.9 whp and 165.7 ft-lb of torque. The first Dyno run was 147.8 whp and 154 ft-lb of torque. Roughly about 10 whp and 10 ft-lb of torque difference, was it the wheels, altitude, a much hotter day, different Dynos?
I have the Camcon, DC header and axle back, NO CAI. I am going back to the shop for more dyno time when it cools down, 112 today. I will do another base line with the Camcon off and then on. I hope this helps............
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