Black_Sheep_xB

doin' it by the book sounds good, loop holes work both ways..

Good Luck!!

vettereddie

Well, I've been pretty much f'ed over by every support service that's supposed to be of help. The dealer and the Scion Experience won't cover under warranty because they claim the intake ingested water and hydrolocked the vehicle, GEICO mechanical breakdown denied coverage becasue they just listened to the dealer tech, and GEICO comprehensive actually agreed that it didn't take in water at the time of failure but won't cover because they say it happend over time and are saying it is wear and tear. WTF! GEICO can't even agree with themselves and I get shafted.

I'm not at arbitration but have not heard back from the group yet. I need to find out if I do a used engine swap if I can still get coverage under arbitration. I'm also looking up attourneys and ASE mechanics who may be able to assess a different failure mode.

Black_Sheep_xB

you need the ASE master tech's support in court, two or
more would be awsome.. (these are the "technical experts")
if you did put in the used motor, because currently they left
you no choice, and you win, you should get the new motor,
and even the cost back for the used one.. lawyer would be
best at this point.. wear and tear LMFAO!! what kind of cars
is he used to? lol.. get a "tech. expert" to prove it was a
head leak, then that goes with geico's "over time" theory,
then it's a product mechanical failure not caused by any
after market device

Black_Sheep_xB

P.S.

good Luck with all!!!

vettereddie

Update:
GEICO denied coverage for comprehensive because they actually agreed with my assessment that this was not caused by water, rather premature mechanical failure.

To restate this, GEICO comprehensive just contradicted GEICO mechanical breakdown, but neither will cover repairs. I'm now officially in arbitration, waiting on a hearing date. Arbitration is free and handled through the National Center for Dispute Settlement. I have the option to appeal through GEICO but they want me to finish with Scion first.

The "corrosion" the mechanic found wipes off with a finger, the actual cylinder wall is un-pitted and undamaged. I suspect that the injectors sprayed for at least another cycle after the ignition shut down and ended up washing around some carbon deposits. Interesting factoid, the 1NZ-FE small block will fit in an 18 gallon plastic tote from Wall-Mart with the oil pan still installed.

I also found that the driver's side inboard drive axle boot had been pulled back and the knuckle removed from the transmission. I suspect this happened when the dealer pulled the engine, but they are of course saying the tow truck guy must have did it when he took my car back home. I really wish there were a way to hold the service manager directly accountable for pain and work I'm having to endure to push this thing through. It should not be this damn hard to get people to actually honor a contract.

Black_Sheep_xB

dude.. geez

First, I can say, since I work at a dealer, if a car was towed in and damage occurs at the shop, it is standard operating procedure to blame the tow company, who in turn is not obligated to repair, which is in the fine print of the tow contract, its one of those circles they love to place people in..

carbon wash out, how funny, and that does make sense.. they wanted to get you, and decided as soon as they saw a reason resembling something to substantiate their claim.. they went with it.. ha ha

people dont understand.. the dealer will deny deny and deny, but if you stay persistent you will win 98% of the time.. most dont go all the way through with it, so the dealer keeps doing it..

keep it up, and who knows, maybe you'll wind up with compensated damages as well.. idiots!!

again, good luck with all!!

vettereddie

Yeah, the axle thing really ____ed me off. The driveshaft is not bent, and the retaining ring was actually hanging on nearby wiring. The knuckle was out of the socket, which could only happen if the transmission was physically moved to the right to get the clearance needed to de-couple it from the housing. As for the ring, it would be damn lucky to fly off and happen to land on the wire above and over from it. Really looks like someone hung it there, something I don't see the tow guy doing.

I'm hoping it helps add to my argument that the service manager is faulty in their assessment. The axle damage never showed up on the report, so it seems that the manager is trying to cover it up.

If I have to go to court, I'd love to see what they have to say about the engine failure stranding my wheelchair-bound wife on the side of the highway, and subsequently having to cancel medical appointments for her due to lack of transportation. I'm ____ed because this crap may actually be affecting her health. I've had to schedule rides with her dad to come pick her up in his work van, no one else has a vehicle that can hold her motorized chair.

Of course the second worst part about this is I'm stuck driving a 1990 Honda Accord until the xB is back on the road. It even has primer and bondo visible, and due to the low seats, my wife can't even manually transfer to the front seat so she's been homebound since this happened.

Sorry to _____ and whine, the slow arbitration process just has me frustrated.

Black_Sheep_xB

you have every right to be upset and venting it..

dont forget take lots of pictures that tell the same story about the things you are seeing..

The tech would have to put the axle thing on the repair order if it was like that.. LMAO at hanging ring.. sorry about the probs concerning your family.

vettereddie

I have pleanty of pictures, but I'm doing one better than that at the meeting. Like I said, the short block fits in an 18 gallon tote and is a one person lift, so I'm taking it with me along with the head and intake.

Black_Sheep_xB

I forgot to say.. lol at fitting in 18 gallon tote.. mighty mouse motor!

hotbox05

if you are boosted you void the warranty ., especially when I bet that's why your motor blew.

Black_Sheep_xB

boosted?

vettereddie

Thank you armchair diagnostic mechanic. Please have all the facts before making assessments.

There was a Greddy blower on for about 14k. I had to pull it in the beginning of December because the tensioner pulley bolt sheared. Long story short, the tensoner pulley bolt has a threaded hole in the bolt head where a second adjustment bolt feeds in. The adjustment bolt is held in place by a horseshoe press fitted ring. The ring let go and made the pulley slip. To keep tension, the pulley bolt had to be over-tightened and eventually sheared. I had a new bolt machined but was waiting until it got warmer to put it back on.

While it was on, it had been tuned to a safe AF/R between 11.4 and 11.8 across the power band by PTuning. It dyno'd at only 114 WHP, so I hardly thing the engine was stressed unduly during this period. Tango, Blown_xA, Viet_Box and others are all still running with S/C or turbo's with more miles and no issues.

Let me again stress that it had been off for about 3 months with the engine giving no indication of trouble prior to the failure.

Also, it looks to be the exact same failure as eXciteBox:

My Engine Blew Up!

Who only had an SRI, header and exhaust, and 25k on the vehicle. His engine was replaced under warranty and attributed to the oil pump. When my block was taken apart, I did notice a substantial amount of of the gasket material on the inside of the oil pump housing, some could have broken loose and clogged.

Hotbox, get your facts straight before making accusations. If this was something I caused due to modification, I would not even be bothering Scion about it. I have the tools, spare engine and facilities to fix this myself, and would already be back on the road by now had I just did a swap myself when the failure occurred. However, I believe Scion is liable for this failure and needs to honor the warranty agreement because of it, and keep the remaining 40,000 of coverage for the engine and powertrain.

vettereddie

Oh, it also happened to this guy with just a CAI, on a clear day with dry pavement:


My Germain Toyota/Scion fiasco

His warranty was declined because they claimed hydrolock from the CAI and he decided not to try and fight it.

3 1NZ-FE's with the exact same failure and different intakes. I think this makes a case for at least a bad batch of motors though too few incidences to be a design flaw. My question is why are some dealers so reluctant to honor the warranty? Don't they get paid for the repairs either way?

Black_Sheep_xB

yeah, I dont think that s/c would harm anything..
not this way..

dealers get paid much more when you pay, there is a different labor rate from the manufacturer (lower than the
shop rate), plus warrantee paid repair time is 1.5-2 times lower than customer pay book time, and the final
thing.. the parts department cant mark up waranty parts, but can customer pay parts (they are gross sales commission paid).. in the end they double their money with you.. its a sad system

They would rather lose your warranty sale, and hope you wind up coming back to pay them yourself, then take the warranty claim and "lose money" (in their eyes)

for instance a transmission where I work, pays 4.6 hours labor warranty repair time the part is $1200, customer pay would be 10hrs and $2200 parts, the part price is doubled, nearly.. we even sell people parts from Napa at a 60% mark up, as an aftermarket option to parts.. and they buy it


I have felt so bad for people that I have given them my number, and fix their car at my house.. older people get it
the worst.. then young, people who come in screaming always win in the end, its the only thing they respond to, mostly because they are wrong..
The manufacturer sets lower labor times do to the fact we
specialize and train on one line of car, so we should be faster, and we are.. good dealerships charge this same amount to their customers for the same reason. However, the dealer doesent have to, so 99% dont.. even though all the warranty rates are profitable to the dealer, and if they did it, they would lose their bad name and actually have a flourishing business over private shops. I have heard these words from management, " I would rather make $2000 on one customer, than $200 on ten" what sense does this make? none.. if you screw one guy for $2000, he warns the world, if you cut that same guy a break for $200, and 9 others, the world would be doing business with you, and 10 becomes a 1000, etc.,.

vettereddie

Arbitration date is set for April 17, so I have to wait another 24 days before even knowing if Toyota will finally decide to fix it .

I'm sooo tempted to drop the spare motor in but am afraid that if I do, they'll pull something else, say because I fixed it through other means they will no longer do anything, or since it was used and not done at the dealer the rest of the car and powertrain warranty are gone or some other BS, so I'll sit an wait.

Here's the pic of the driveshaft, you tell me how it got that way without dealer intervention. The knuckle is on top, the cup it's supposed to sit in is underneath and the retaining ring for the boot is hanging on the wiring nearby. How could the tow operator have even done this? Also, I wouldn't be able to drive easily with power on only one wheel, I think I'd notice something was amiss. ____es me off they won't even own up to doing it.

Black_Sheep_xB

^^Geez

Tercel95

Are you dealing with Toyota of Southern MD? I f***in hate that dealership. They have tried to screw me over again and again. They are all douchebags and won't admit when there is something is wrong with the car if it won't make them any money.

vettereddie

No, didn't take it to ToYoSoMD specificially becuase I'd heard bad things about them. Another guy in our club spun a bearing and they blamed it on the short ram intake, WTF? They said metal shavings from the intake caused it. Trust me, if you spin a bearing pleanty of other stuff starts rubbing to cause metal shavings. If only the auto industry does what the aviation industry does. We put trace ammounts of different metals depending on the bearing so when we do oil samples, we can analyze the shavings and determine which one is wearing without having to open the whole thing up.

Aldridge Ford is the same way, it seems like you can't get a fair deal unless you're related to someone working there (which is probably about a quarter of the county )

I went to Bayside Scion, which is apparantly no better and maybe worse. I wanted to take it to Waldorf but couldn't get it towed that far. There is a guy in our club with an xB2 who works at SoMD, he's a good guy but is in sales so he has no control over parts or service. I'm afraid that even if I get this straightened out they'll make me take it to SoMD since it's the closest dealership.

I did read this in the Toyota Dispute Settlement Program brochure:
I sent all my suporting documentation to NCDS to forward over to Toyota (not Scion, this is Toyota's Central Atlantic Distribution in Glen Burnie). Hopefully they will read it and agree to honor the warranty before the April 17 meeting, otherwise it's going to be a long wait.

Tercel95

I have also had issues with Bayside, they only put two quarts of oil in my Mom's Tacoma when she took it there for an oil change. Southern Maryland sucks for this kind of thing. Koons of Annapolis is awesome though, they have always been great. I don't think my next car will be a Toyota just because of all of the issues with dealers around here. I have definitely seen your car driving around before though.