TRD Intake warranty issue, need help
03-27-2008, 07:51 PM
#41
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Yeah, it's the only silver and black two-tone in the area, so it's not hard to spot. I don't think it would matter what barand of car you buy next, if you have it serviced by ANY dealer down you'll probably have issues with the dealers. I'll be handling my 30,000 inspection through Waldorf and any other work that would be needed. I'm pretty mechanically inclined so if work doesn't require clean room conditions (transmission internals only really) I'd probably do it myself.
If you're looking for a Scion club we are active through the Southern MD Scikotics; we've been kind of dormant this winter but are going to be picking it up this spring. Just hit us up on the Scikotics forums, next month we'll be going to Busch Gardens along with the VA chapters.
We were sponsored by Annapolis but recently moved to Scion of Waldorf for a closer location.
If you're looking for a Scion club we are active through the Southern MD Scikotics; we've been kind of dormant this winter but are going to be picking it up this spring. Just hit us up on the Scikotics forums, next month we'll be going to Busch Gardens along with the VA chapters.
We were sponsored by Annapolis but recently moved to Scion of Waldorf for a closer location.
03-28-2008, 06:47 PM
#42
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I actually am a member of scikotics, I just haven't been very active lately. I was really happy with my car for like a month but now I want to get rid of it as soon as possible. I hate it so much I sometimes contemplate driving it into a tree.
03-29-2008, 03:25 AM
#44
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I had been bitten by the Toyota bug. I was so in love with my last car (Tercel) that I thought I would like this car even more. But I realize now that buying something practical was not the best decision for me. I moved recently from Lusby to Great Mills so my work is only 2 miles away now. Practicality really isn't all that important anymore. I miss my Tercel and I wish I never would have sold it. As soon as I pay down the xA a little bit it will be gone...
04-01-2008, 06:52 PM
#45
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I know this doesn't help you now. Kinda late, but I'm looking into getting a cold air intake for my tc also ('06 5 spd) Torn between injen, AEM, and TRD. Was most likely going with the AEM since all the horror stories I've heard about TRD parts not being warranted. Funny thing is, now I'm even more torn now. Just called the parts guy up at NOrth Hills Toyota Scion in Pittsburgh. He told me no matter if I do it myself, get it done somewhere else, or get it done at a toyota dealership, it should not void my waranty. And it comes with a bypass valve...AEM doesn't; 45 bux extra. Just throwing that info out there for ya. Hope all goes well with your situation
04-02-2008, 03:49 PM
#46
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Well, the TRD for the 06 xB is actually made by AEM and DOES include a bypass valve. The dealer claim, and hence Scion dispute is that the dealer report says that the intake sucked up water that damaged the engine. The dealer is full of it since the roads were dry when it went, so it wouldn't matter what intake I had. if it wasn't stock and the dealer misdiagnoses the failure to link it to the intake, Scion won't honor the warranty directly. This is why I am in arbitration with Toyota to get them to understand the dealer was wrong. Just saying, that real or false, if the dealer claims the intake caused the engine problems, the warranty won't cover it without a lot of hassle.
I just need to have it work through the system to have my say. A little about me, I'm not some young guy just out of high school throwing on parts because they are shiny. I am not ASE certified, but do have an bachelors engineering degree, am working on a systems engineering masters, work for the Navy in the propulsion division (turbojet, turbofan, turboprop, turboshaft and piston driven on the smaller UAV's) and know enough about how an engine operates to be able to effectively explain why this is not a water failure. We do life trending on all our propulsion components but do still have premature failures on occasion due to manufacturing or assembly defects. Toyota can not possibly claim they have 100% quality on their engines, so I would think this falls under the above mentioned. I have found two other failures besides mine on different intakes (both SRI and CAI). Given the percentage of Scion owners who are on Scionlife, I could even extrapolate what the engine failure risk is using a Weibull distribution since so few incidents have occurred.
If the service would have listened to me, I could have explained all of this. However, he would not even listen to me or hear me out about the road conditions. That's like going to the doctor and having him doing a diagnosis without asking you what your symptoms are, it just doesn't make sense. Bottom line, there is no actual evidence of water damage and once allowed to present the evidence at the arbitration meeting I feel Toyota will honor the warranty. I'm hoping they will review the documentation and reach a decision in my favor prior to the meeting, but if not I'll just be patient.
I just need to have it work through the system to have my say. A little about me, I'm not some young guy just out of high school throwing on parts because they are shiny. I am not ASE certified, but do have an bachelors engineering degree, am working on a systems engineering masters, work for the Navy in the propulsion division (turbojet, turbofan, turboprop, turboshaft and piston driven on the smaller UAV's) and know enough about how an engine operates to be able to effectively explain why this is not a water failure. We do life trending on all our propulsion components but do still have premature failures on occasion due to manufacturing or assembly defects. Toyota can not possibly claim they have 100% quality on their engines, so I would think this falls under the above mentioned. I have found two other failures besides mine on different intakes (both SRI and CAI). Given the percentage of Scion owners who are on Scionlife, I could even extrapolate what the engine failure risk is using a Weibull distribution since so few incidents have occurred.
If the service would have listened to me, I could have explained all of this. However, he would not even listen to me or hear me out about the road conditions. That's like going to the doctor and having him doing a diagnosis without asking you what your symptoms are, it just doesn't make sense. Bottom line, there is no actual evidence of water damage and once allowed to present the evidence at the arbitration meeting I feel Toyota will honor the warranty. I'm hoping they will review the documentation and reach a decision in my favor prior to the meeting, but if not I'll just be patient.
04-27-2008, 09:31 PM
#47
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Well, I got the letter back from NCDS and did not get a favorable response. The main difficulty was I ended up going in alone, while Toyota sent the original dealer service manager, the division technical manager, and another corporate rep. I'm not an ASE certified master mechanic and don't have the money to hire one, which is why I pursued the free NCDS option instead of an outright lawsuit. Even if I found the actual problem, how would I convince them it was the real one since I didn't have ASE certification so I doubt they would have listened. The two excerpts are, Toyota's position:
They got it half right, it does say on the TRD site that it is not warranted, but I believe they are distributed since you can buy it at the DAMN dealer. Going on, and adding insult to injury:
Basically, they claim that if ANY water EVER went through the filter, that must have caused it to break and they weren't fixing it. Never mind that the car is not recoverable from hydrolock, so it would be a little difficult for it to have happened earlier and be able to drive away from. I also don't think he understood the bypass valve functionality and just went along with the three on one attack I endured at the meeting. The arbitrator's statement is:
Basically, he wanted me to prove what actually broke my engine, not just demonstrate that water didn't break it.
I have lost pretty much all faith in Toyota's warranty division, and sadly this will be my last purchased Toyota. I have never been treated this poorly by ANY company I have dealt with. I may be sending the rods out for metallurgical analysis, if voids in the casting are found I may pursue a legal suit. Regardless, I'm now on my own to fix my car. After the dealer broke the axle rod, I decided to fix that already on my own because to be honest, I'm just too damned tired of fighting. It's been exactly 2 months of my car being down without any work being done on it because of litigation.
If anyone ever is in my situation, get a lawyer AND an independent mechanic before going in to proceedings, it is NOT a level playing field.
The position of Toyota was that the Customer's claim is not warrantable as the vehicle's damages were directly related to the modification of the vehicle, and parts were installed that are not manufactured, distributed, authorized, or warranted by Toyota
Toyota stated that no matter where or when the moisture infiltration actually took place, water ingestion through the after market cold air bypass did directly result in hydrolock
Customers request is denied.... I have reached this conclusion because the customer did not provide what I deemed compelling evidence in support of the claim that a manufacturing defect directly or indirectly caused the failure
I have lost pretty much all faith in Toyota's warranty division, and sadly this will be my last purchased Toyota. I have never been treated this poorly by ANY company I have dealt with. I may be sending the rods out for metallurgical analysis, if voids in the casting are found I may pursue a legal suit. Regardless, I'm now on my own to fix my car. After the dealer broke the axle rod, I decided to fix that already on my own because to be honest, I'm just too damned tired of fighting. It's been exactly 2 months of my car being down without any work being done on it because of litigation.
If anyone ever is in my situation, get a lawyer AND an independent mechanic before going in to proceedings, it is NOT a level playing field.
04-28-2008, 02:52 AM
#48
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Well, karma must work in mysterious ways, I just got notification of this from one of the other guys in our club. Apparently the dealership that caused me all this grief ended up having a fire. Guess I wasn't the only one they ____ed off. BTW, it wasn't me, I was in Phoenix.
The story is here:
http://www.wusa9.com/news/columnist/...vestatter.html
Video of the scene is here:
http://pfvfd.org/AudioVideo%20files/...ing%20fire.wmv
Sucks they said some customers cars got damaged though. Imagine if I had left mine there for the duration of the arbitration.
A team of Deputy State Fire Marshals is continuing with their investigation into what sparked a two-alarm fire that heavily damaged a local automobile dealership.
The 5: 45 a.m. fire damaged the Bayside Chevrolet and Toyota dealership located at 1200 Solomon’s Island Road. The fire was discovered by a passerby who notified Calvert County 9-1-1 Center. Local firefighters were dispatched to the scene for a smoke investigation. When firefighters arrived they found heavy fire conditions inside the building. A second alarm was sounded which brought additional firefighters from Calvert and Charles Counties. It took firefighters approximately one-hour to control the blaze.
Besides the damage done to the building, five automobiles belonging to the dealership and to customers suffered damage. The fire caused an estimated $3,000,000.00 damage to the building. There were no reported injuries.
Investigators have determined the fire originated in the parts room of the 80’ by 115’ block building. The exact cause for the fire remains under investigation.
The 5: 45 a.m. fire damaged the Bayside Chevrolet and Toyota dealership located at 1200 Solomon’s Island Road. The fire was discovered by a passerby who notified Calvert County 9-1-1 Center. Local firefighters were dispatched to the scene for a smoke investigation. When firefighters arrived they found heavy fire conditions inside the building. A second alarm was sounded which brought additional firefighters from Calvert and Charles Counties. It took firefighters approximately one-hour to control the blaze.
Besides the damage done to the building, five automobiles belonging to the dealership and to customers suffered damage. The fire caused an estimated $3,000,000.00 damage to the building. There were no reported injuries.
Investigators have determined the fire originated in the parts room of the 80’ by 115’ block building. The exact cause for the fire remains under investigation.
http://www.wusa9.com/news/columnist/...vestatter.html
Video of the scene is here:
http://pfvfd.org/AudioVideo%20files/...ing%20fire.wmv
Sucks they said some customers cars got damaged though. Imagine if I had left mine there for the duration of the arbitration.
05-01-2008, 08:52 PM
#49
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What comes around goes around! I hate any has these problems with dealers..I took my wifes Xterra into a dealership for a recall repair of the fuelpump. They broke something else while taking of the fuelpump and tried to charge me for it. I raised hell till they called the cops! i thought I was gone to jail for sure. The cop took me to the side and told me he really couldn't get involved because he was not a judge, but he didn't see how they this could stand up in court. After keeping the General manager and cops there for about an hour after they closed, they took the charge off. asshats... good luck man..
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