it's funny how many private messages I recieved this morining from people who knew I was right about the valve in the muffler and the bottom line is you want it covered up. I don't need to prove my sponsership to you or others hotbox I'veknown you for along time from sciontech and I am very suprised to hear something like this coming from you of all people. Of course you probably didn't realize you were bashing one of your friends. no biggie The bottom line is there is a valve in the stock exhaust it's there for a reason and all you guys who are stuck in this old way of honda thinking are mistaken the scions are diffrent welcome to obd3 the computer works against most modifications you do to the car. There is a valve in the mufflers it's there for a reason and you cannot disprove that there is no valve in the stock muffler and it is foolish to think that they fail becuase they don't they are expected to last the life of your ride. I will email scion on this matter again and post to you their response to the ignorance that is floating around here is it so hard to believe you made a mistake is it so hard to believe you bought into marketing hype and hurt your cars performance guess what I did too. But I learned from my mistake and I found ut why power is lost with aftermarket exhausts. The bottom line is this is going to turn into a me against the whole community unless others will stand up who also know. But I will contact scion and post what they and I know and car and driver. I guess the guys at car and driver are idiots and don't know ddidly compared to ya'll guys becuase they have confirmed it as well and you can read about it on the net.

 

I'm not defending or attacking this post but I do have a question. If our engines need
this little spring valve in the exhaust then why would Scion design my RS 2.0 with a
DC sports exhaust? Does this exhaust have the valve you speak of?

 

well.. i know the stock tC muffler has that spring valve...

 

I don't know about the RS2.0 all I know about is the 2006 scion Xa and what it needs and why. obviously the valve is there to control backpressure. Maybe backpressure can be acieved in other ways like the silencers that come with some aftermarket exhaust that most people don't run but I still doubt that it would be as precise as the factory valve that opens up varying on how hard you are pushing the gas pedal.

 

Dude, come on.. Why don't you name all these companies you are sponsored by? Honestly, based on your writing skills, I'd love to see some of your applications for sponsorship.

Regardless. You have been making some pretty big claims without ANY FACTUAL EVIDENCE to back it up.


In the end, I really don't care who you are or who you are sponsored by. But, you really make it difficult to be a fan.

Take it easy man.

~
Lizard1, pass the cookies.

 

As you just stated. It's simply a valve to create and fluctuate back pressure.

Not going to make or break the performance. We are talking small % here.

 

Many car companies use valves in their exhaust systems. Like BMW.

Why do they use them? Not for low end torque, but for noise.

 

Good point.

 

they aren't for noise packing is for noise and yes they make a diffrence in horsepower and tourque I have recieved a few pm about people who have swiched back to sock also there are some threads on this site where people have gone back to stock because of the performance increase thats all I wanted to get across to you is that the aftermarket companies should incorporate this type of valve into their exhausts they could make great exhausts and with some R&D improve on the original desighn but you tell me stups claim of 14 whp is honest give me a break. from a muffler and we have been finging these aftermarket exhausts are all basically the same they vary in tone and looks of course but they are all basically straight flow through and this hurts the natrually aspirated scion.

 

Dude, you are so digging a hole on your background. Here's a little tip - quit while you are ahead..

Why? One, no one gives a rat's back side about a flap valve in their stock exhaust. You are truely showing your ignorance with a comment like "the car works against any modifications". Reason why this is so ignorant?

Look, if you do, in fact work with TRD and sponsored by them, (I am 100% feeling you aren't, but for the sake of arguement) tell me why they insist on making performance products for the Scions IF these OBD3s are working against any mods. If they in fact do (Which in some cases they do, but in general bolt-on apps, they certainly don't), aren't you contradicting everything you say by being sponsored and what appears to be doing R&D for them?

Oh, here's another tidbit. TRD is Scion. Scion isn't TRD. When you say you will "contact" Scion, do you mean TRD? Or, are you getting everything confused.

I know, you are sponsored by both, right? That was easy. Oh, let me guess, this is where you'll once again back pedal.

Let's get over the flap valve in the stock exhaust and focus on this comment where you say we are all falling for marketing. Is it possible that many on here have taken their cars and did a baseline dyno before they bolted on mods (Unlike what you did) and dyno'd after each bolt-on? If they did and they gained performance, then aren't your responses bogus and w/o merit?

Essentially, you keep doing the "I don't need to prove anything to anyone", but you have yet to express what exactly you do that you have or need TRD support.

I'd be interested in what you actually do for TRD. It can't be too tough.
Credentials help support what you are saying if it is against the main stream of thought.

 

WHAT?!

Seriously man.. Take a few minutes to edit and proof read before posting. It really takes away from the message you are trying to get across.

You certainly understand that back pressure reduces noise right? So, yes, a valve in the muffler WILL reduce noise. It will also create back pressure.

I feel like I'm picking on you today.. so I'm just going to get off the computer before you post again.

 

there has been debate on BMW boards about the valves. It took a direct qote from a BMW engineer about them being solely for noise control to settle the dispute.




Quote from Chevrolet, since they use muffler valves as well "Even with ETC and tuned engine mounts, there was a distinct difference in exhaust tone between V-4 and V-8 operation. To mitigate this difference, a pressure-activated valve in the muffler muffler adjusts the exhaust path to deliver an appropriate amount of noise reduction."


Also, the VW R32 uses a valve in the mmuffler to reduce noise at certain rpms.

Oh, same goes for Bentley's too.

 

so the exhaust valve is meant to last the lifetime of the ride yet i've never seen any muffler last ( in full working order ) longer than say 100k.

oh and 0bd3 is not out yet. our cars have a 64 bit ecu working on obd2.

this isn't honda thinking. sure this valve may help tq on a stock car and maybe with it in addition to a performance exhaust would raise the torque as well , but anyone with more than just exhaust will see a gain in torque. and a well designed aka size , bends , muffler will not lose torque compared to stock. at most 1 or 2 ft/lbs .


a lot of people don't know what they are doing and run 2.5 piping on a hardly bolt on equipped car. those people are idiots , people that know anything about tuning a car use correctly sized pipe.

trust me torque is nice but so is hp. and i'll take the non spring valve exhaust i have and it's hp and tq gains over a stock one any day.

 

the rs2 doesnt have it , neither does the trd.


these spring valves are just like the flaps on diesels . all it is is something that creates backpressure at very low rpms and then when enough exhaust gas velocity has accumulated it fully opens to release the backpressure so as to not kill the hp.

if you build a car correctly and used correctly sized exhaust piping , and a correct length intake you will not have problems.

on a bone stock car the stock exhaust is better , on a moderately to heavily modified car the valve does little more than severly hinder top end performance.

 

Oh, since I'm bored, couple of questions for the Ghostrider.

1) If you are, in fact sponsored by TRD, what do you race? I mean, they don't sponsor anything like show cars or tuner cars. They are into racing like Drag Racing (NHRA), Off Road Racing (CORR), Sprint car racing, Open wheeled racing, and even upcoming NASCAR. Which are you?

3) If you are sponsored by TRD and many others including what you seem to point out as Scion, aren't these two companies on different paths? I know Scion has two drivers on their team for Drag racing, but didn't see anyone from Colorado.

 

For those that do not believe ghost about the valve, search out this forum for posts from Gabe ( Stylis). He has posted about " muffler bearings" before. You all might read up on the little motor we got and see that the valve opens at aproximatly 3500 to 3800 rpm.

If you are all going to call BS about it, ask gabe and read up the reasearch.

 

lol. muffler bearings. i love that joke.

never have i seen , cared , or discredited him about the valve in stock mufflers. i'm just saying that cars with moderate to fully bolton / custom perf work will not benefit from the stock exhaust so that exhaust in those cases is not the best.

 

Coming from the gentelman with the fastest xb in the USA.( where are the slips you promised?)

He has said that unless you are FI the stock muffler is the right if you want to keep your low end torque.

And with the valve, there must be some kind of muffler bearing, don't you think as most moving parts do have bearing surfaces? ( so it really isn't a joke for the educated and informed)

 

Cleaned up the thread. Please keep it on topic and helpful so it isn't locked.
Thanks.

 

Dude, you're not getting the point here. No one is really questioning the guy about the valve. However, his credibility gets shot to hell and back due to false claims of his own.

Also, how on earth can you sit and argue that a car will actually NOT accept mods and the answer as to why is simply "You guys fall for the marketing" answer?

Drop the valve deal - no bearings, anyways as if it is a valve, it is most likely pressed on and has at most a spring and a steel wound cable. No bearings of sorts. Maybe a plain bearing type set-up, but come on, who cares? Point is that if torque at really low rpms is what you want, there are mods that can be done to significantly help out that area. Otherwise, why is it that everyone is hung up on the valve deal?

Is there some wierd mojo going on where you all are under some type of spell?