I am looking through all my wiring diagrams and documentation, and have no proof either way. The ECU/ECM is only shown as a blue box with wiring going into it. There are no schematics of the processor(s) I am completely not surprised at this, but wanted to put this out there. I have every wiring diagram I could get from Toyota.

 

some one needs to take one apart to see what they find out

 

Although it is possible the computer is 64 bit, it seems unlikely. The real advantage of having a 64 bit processor is memory addressing not speed. I can't imagine that our car's computer would need 4GB+ of RAM to handle the engine management.

 

I love taking things apart to see how they work but I think I'll pass on this one.

 

i was thinking more in the lines of one from a junked scion

 

He he he. Guess I jumped the gun on that one.

 

I am glad someone else noticed this

 

Ahaaa but you forget about the stability control and traction control and ABS brakes - big instructions mean quick execution times and shorter programming routines. Doesn't mean that it HAS to address a lot of memory but the lookup tables for the fuel air mixtures are probably all multi-dimensional lookup tables and probably more than 8 bits in value. Would you like a slow computer running your air bag deployment?

 

If any computer is controling the airbag deployment, all it has to do is compare the value received from the accelerometers to determin if the value it has received is above the limit, in which case, execute deployment.

Even if it only runs at 10Mhz, that's 10,000,000 cyles per second it can go through. Some do more instructions per cycle than 1, some do 1 instruction per 4 cycles.

We have to remember, the code isn't all that big. The code that runs the ECU in a Pontiac Grand Prix with a supercharger is only 512K of code. Some of the pictures posted here contain more information than that.

 

Oh year and your timing for ignition and plug firing as well as valve timing. Consider this - the door clock control module is something like $485 so how much do you think is in the main CPU? It can be a RISC Reduced Instruction Set Chip and still be 64 bits for a few powerful instructions. Most of what it has to do is simple but they all add up and for resolution to a fraction of second for fuel injection duration it needs to be running fast enough to turn the injectors on and off in a fraction of a second. 6000rpm is 100 per second and it takes more than an off and on per revolution to operate the injectors and plugs - read all the sensors and control everything that needs to be controlled. If you have ever done any real time programming you would know that too slow a CPU doesn't cut it with time critical applications.

 

Our learning ecu can be proven with boosted guys, n/a guys, or anyone with mods. It doesn't hold back the motor from producing power, however with boost especially, it does hold its own problems. You can fully tune your piggy back, but the ecu will adjust itself within a few days and cause the motor to run too lean or rich. If you don't believe me, ask some of the boosted xb/xa guys here and find out for yourself. Be sure to ask someone thats actually gone through the tuning stages, most haven't gone to a dyno since most kits out there come with a pre-tuned management system, but yeah.

Does it cause power mods to not produce power? No. Is it really a 64 bit ecu? From what i understand it is, but i haven't seen it up close and person in terms of design. Is it a learning ecu that can cause issues in reguards of tuning and boost? Absolutely.

 

do not forget nintendo 64! just because somthing is 64 bit does not mean it is advance at all.... sheesh you guys are funny.

 

64bit means nothing in terms of advancement.

 

64 bit is the register size which has nothing to do with speed. It makes the processor capable of performing calculations on larger numbers and addressing more memory. Addressing more memory doesn't mean using more memory to process a particular thing it means literally storing an address to a particular piece of data.

Several of the comments made lead me to believe comparisons are being made to a PC's architecture. The car's computer is highly customized for it unlike the generic architecture of a PC. There are likely several different independent processing paths for different systems so that one doesn't interfere or impede the other.

 

It's $485 because you will pay that much for a new one.

Sorry bro, but that doesn't 'prove' diddly squat. A couple guys ran boost and had less than ideal results.. why? Show me a log of real time ECU data to indicate IT is the problem and not a tuning mistake somewhere else in the line.

I'm not saying it ISN'T the culprit either.. but nobody has any evidence that it ACTUALLY is.

So our car is the first car ever to require an advanced ECU to control functions that EFI cars have been doing for years, even on old OBD1 systems? Come on. 100 corrections per second even per injector is nothing for a dedicated processor. Again, this does not prove our ECU is a crazy machine set on world domination and claiming to be the ruler of all things power reduction.

I don't care if it's a 400000 bit processor, the real point I am trying to make with this thread is that many things around here are FACT yet nobody has ever shown a shred of proof that what they keep repeating IS fact.

All I am asking for is ONE little itty bitty shred of proof that this ECU is 64bit. Everyone claims it is.. so prove it to me! This isn't even about how fast it is, or how it limits power, it's about proof of claims that are just spewing out all over this place.

 

By the way, this is meant to spark interest and some investigation around here. "what muffler should I run" threads make me bored.

I'm trying to spark some conversation and maybe discover some truth for a change.

I certainly do not know everything nor will I ever claim to, but I CAN tell you I know enough to see a ton of BS and nobody seems to be able to smell it.

 

I just wanted to throw in what I learned from school. The only reason they told us that the ecu is so powerful is for safety. There are millions of lines of code in that little box. Basicly abs, airbags, traction control (for those that have it). abs can pump brakes up to 60 times a second. It takes a lot of movements, and at the right times to do these things Just lots of computing power for all the safety. Every ECU is also different. GM, FORD, DODGE all seam to use very simple ECU's. Nothing as complicated as the imports. Not near as powerful processors.

About learning how you drive??? I believe that is probably going to be mostly in an automatic. The ECU cotrolls the shifts in that. It remembers little things. Say all your driving around town never exceeds 35. But when you get on the highway you punch the throttle up to 60! The computer will remember that if you push the car past 35 it might hold the gear longer to see if you are "getting on the highway". Thats also what school said. As for robbing power??? I believe the ability is there. Why you ask. WARRENTY!! They don't want anything happening to there cars while under warrenty. The ECU will do everthing in its power to use the parimiters it was programmed with. Keeping the car EMISSION LEGAL! That is the power robber. They have to keep it emission legal also. SO.... you add lots of goodies. Takes it out of the emission legal stage. The computer will do its absolute best to keep it emission legal at all cost.



Go here to find out why there is such a large processor: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-co....htm/printable

 

The "Door Lock Control Relay" is certainly more than jus a simple relay, and is obviously fairly complex. Here is the main circuit board (top and bottom)...





(That module does NOT include the remote entry receiver, which is a separate module.)

If something as "simple" and "inconsequential" as the "door lock control relay" looks like that, having a fairly impressive ECU "brain" wouldn't surprise me.

I have nothing that I can lay my hands on right now - I'll keep looking - but there was a Toyota "white paper" type of document discussing the design of the control systems for the latest generation tiny engine cars that discussed the multiple look-up tables that the ECU tries to match to driving style for both the engine and the auto transmission.

I doubt it is a 64 bit CPU, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was a lot more elaborate than we would think initially.

I haven't found the stuff I was looking for yet, but I did find info (from Green Hill Software) on the ECU in the Toyota Avalon, which has a 32 bit NEC CPU running a POSIX based OS and apps compiled in C/C++... From another Toyota paper it appears that at least since they started design of the ECU for the RAV4 in November, 1997 the 'standard' CPU for their ECUs has been a 32 bit processor. Still nothing specifically on the Scion engines...

I'll keep digging... I know I saw some of this stuff somewhere.

 

ahhh.. and the great resource finder known as Tomas has joined in the hunt.... he'll crack the bugger

 

That door lock relay is still not $485 complex... you have to admit that...

Sounds like your on your way to digging up the evidence that will either confirm this or deny it.

BTW, those that claim the ECU is killing your mod potential, are you all in CA with carb cars? The emissions comment got me thinking.

By the way, trying to say how many computations it takes for ABS and traction control modules is not going to amount to anything. 60 times a second to a half decent processing system is a fart in the wind.. multiply that by multiple systems and it's still not going to kill it. And again, cars from the early 90's had ABS systems, multiple airbags, traction control systems, remote keyless entry systems, digital climate controls, heads up displays... shall I go on? That was 15 years ago. The Scion ECU is not the first to be able to do all this stuff. While it's processing power is exponentially better that doesn't mean it's the first to be able to monitor and control all of these systems.

Anyway, keep up the hunt!