Cinderblock

good advive SLOW. any supercharger needs some kind of bypass valve to relive pressure, even a roots blower needs bypasses to keepfrom killin the blower incase of a backfire. it wont rev high enough? it hits like 6700 or so befoe it hits the rev limiter and that what most v8 rev to and their blowers have bypasses(which is the turbo's BOV) but i just dont know much i guess :b

captdownshift

i agree with slows recommendation of reading maximum boost, by mr. bell. If anyone is coming to the show tomorrow I have a copy of it in my xb (no joke)

SLOW4point0

Its so funny people calling me slow....LMAO.. The last 5 years of my life on every other forum, email address ect my name has been MOREPONYPWRTHANU....lmao its so ironic that i am slow now!

EasysBox

that is a good book, a lot of information...

BoogieQ

I love this board. The disinformation here is just stunning.

Here is just ONE example for you: 3800 Grand Prix's run the Eaton m90 roots supercharger and THEE best mod you can do for it is, what...? An Intercooler!

http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...=234&catid=139

Ever hear of a Ford Lightning? Intercooled stock, runs the M112 eaton roots supercharger...

... and on and on.


Would some of you please do a little research before passing your information off to 'noobs'??


To the original poster, nobody makes one right now for the greedy or blitz kits that I could find, but that doesn't mean one couldn't be made. And anyone that tells you that you shouldn't intercool a boosted engine is off their rocker. Any temperature drop you get will net you SAFER power, the ability to use lower octane per same boost level, OR more boost without detonation!! If you get 'pressure drop' from the air condensing (not compressing) you simply up your boost again and your flowing that much more air, at a cooler temperature and at a denser charge than before.

BoogieQ

While I agree you want a bypass valve on any boosted aplication, it certainly is not intended to prevent a 'backfire'.

It is there to prevent damage to turbos when the throttle plate on the throttle body suddenly closes and all the pressure being thrown out of the turbo slams into that plate. It will put a huge load on the compressor of the turbo and can cause wear and damange over time. This is not a 'backfire' though.

On a roots application, the throttlebody is before the blower thus when the plate closes, air is cut off to the roots and no real damage can be done to the blower itself. the bypass however will let the rotors spin free and be BYPASSED while under normal cruising conditions. When you get on the happy foot, the bypass is closed and the blower takes over all supply of air to the cylinders. The bypass would do nothing to protect the blower against you suddenly letting off the gas because all the air is already open to the cylinders and the engine would ingest any presureized air left in the lower intake manifold. A roots blower would still function just fine with no bypass or pulley clutch system. It wouldn't be ideal at all, though.

The bypass on a roots blower is nothing like a BOV for a turbo. They work on totally different principles. A bypass valve does exactly what it is called, it bypasses the roots of the supercharger so they spin free in light driving. The blow off valve blows off excess pressure when sudden drops in throttle position occur to save the compressor from stress.

Cliff Notes: Bypasses are good and serve many purposes. They protect turbo compressors from presure buildup, and aid in better milage and driving conditions for roots aplications.

dsmx17

^this guy saved me so much typing and time correcting the rest of this thread, im happy to see atleast one more person on this board, that understands the fundamentals of turbocharged and supercharged applications, and can elequintly explain in detail to the more, misinformed members.

to sum up, thanks for letting me check this board for inaccuracies on a less frequent basis.

BoogieQ

I don't claim to know everything but I do know when something isn't right. This board is made of many young members working on a car that is not very old at all and are trying to figure things out. I think it's great if people guess at options and ideas, but when you pass it off as "THIS IS HOW IT IS!!" and your not even close... it hurts the board.

I'll do you all one better......

How bout an air to air intercooler plate for an Eaton M90 Roots Supercharger?




This is made by FIT in Australia for our Holden counterparts that run GM 3800 V6 Supercharged engines. You plum the pipes out to a front mount Air-to-Air intercooler and back into the lower intake. If someone was good at sandcasting aluminum, something like this could easily be made for the scion as well. It's all plumbing.

Link to FIT's information page:


http://v6supercharged.com.au/coolerplate.asp

EasysBox

thats an awesome alternative to the sandwich style air to water intercooler for the L67. i didn't know one was made. thanks for posting that, now i'm gonna look into getting one for my GP.

BoogieQ

With the exchange rate, it probably will cost you more than using a water to air IC from ZZP. While it requires more maintenance, the W2A I/C will offer you larger gains. Besides, that A2A setup from FIT is for RWD and I don't know how well it will fit under the GP's hood.

I mean if you want to run one that would be AWESOME and I would love to see it. I think the W2A is a better choice, that's all.

What do you run? Our L67 swapped GT has done 12.9@108....... with a roots supercharger..... and an intercooler! ;)

BoogieQ

.... actually after looking at the images a bit better I am almost sure it would fit under the GP hood. The pipes would have to be run a bit different (obviously) but it should fit. You WOULD have to delete the EGR system though.

EasysBox

it should fit fine under the hood, i was reading up on it and it was actually designed to be shorter than say the zzp intercooler. they were talking about how the commodor hood wouldnt clear a air to water ic. looking at the pics, it would take custom piping, but it should work, unfortunatly i ran a currency converter and it came out to about 1100 us. ouch, for just an adapter plate. the charge temp drop they posted was better than the zzp, but for the money, yeah, it would be cool though. im actually gonna end up selling my GP to my bro, i would rather have a 2 door... ive already blocked off the egr and removed the cat ;) but yeah, so my go fast car is gone and i am stuck with my wifes xB, talk about a difference in performance, but ill be throwing on the GReddy S/C i have sitting in the garage when i go home in april. best thing about it is that its an eaton blower, i wonder if i can get a zzp ic core and adapt it.... hmmmm....

BoogieQ

I'm sure you could adapt it, but the footprint of the M90 compared to the M45 (greddy) is quite substantial. My guess is that the core for the IC would be too big to fit in that area especially with the super short snout of the greddy.

Yeah, we have a xB and our L67 GT... fun combo! The xb is slow though and I abandoned my M62 install on the xB.

EasysBox

im sure it would be more of a pain than anything, i did think of trying to fab an adapter plate similar to that for the holden so i could run an air to air, it actually shouldnt be too hard in theory...

Cinderblock

man i like it when people know what their talkin about so i can learn. thanks so much man. i would just ask me dad cuz he's a wiz, but hed tell me to "just stop workin on F*ckin ricer" cuz i have a 60 ranchero and he'd rather i do this sorta stuff to it, though im gonna just a lil more pricey to lol

trojan5996

My garage had developed a Rotrex based supercharger kit for the JDM model boosting 0.95bar. Had been on the road testing for about 6 mths.

Heard they're goin to bring it over to US for testing as well. Watch for more updates for any dyno results.

mijos87

bring it back! any updates on this from anyone?

vettereddie

Nope. Theoretically, a chiller block could be added as a plate between the blower outlet and the cast intake manifold on the Greddy and Blitz. it would need to be air to water like on the CTS-V, Mustang Cobra, etc see pics below:

Top side of the Cadillac CTS-V blower, with gasket that mates to an air-to-water intercooler:


Intercooler that sits on top of the blower, feeding between the throttle body and blower.