How Much, and My Experience.
05-07-2007, 12:58 AM
#1
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 646
How Much, and My Experience.
Hey guys,
I havent been on the boards as much lately as i used to be, but im back with some new info, and furthermore... questions.
For those of you who dont know, I am currently running the Greddy kit on my car. My setup consists of the following:
Greddy 14g Turbo (internally gated at 5lbs) and Manifold
2" Intercooler piping
Turbonetics Raptor BOV (recirculating)
Greddy intercooler upgrade
Greddy airinx intake upgrade
tC injectors/ seats
MAF before tubro
Autometer pro-comp short band air/ fuel
Autometer pro-comp boost
...and NO EMANAGE
Ok.
Before i get extremely flamed for not running e-manage, i am NOT promoting this. This is MY setup for a trial/ error bassis and i am hoping that we can all help each other here.
I have been running this setup as-is for roughly 2500 miles now with quite a bit of success. I am still rocking the stock clutch which has yet to slip, and i have brought the car to two (2) track sessions so far.
My interpretation of stoich, rich, and lean ARE in fact provided by my short band. Some people will sit here and argue with me until there blue in the face that the gauge meens nothing...BUT if you are PINNED in either direction, the gauge will give you a solid range. For instance, around town under light loads, then the assumption that the gauge is useless is correct because it will simply dance around and provide a light show, BUT under conditions of extremely rich or extremely lean, the car gauge will correctly display an exceptable guidline. Example: if you hook up a short band air/ fuel gauge and you use a Toyota scan-tool to richen up the injectors (performing a duty cycle) the gauge will read solidly in the green presenting a rich condition. When each injector leans out, the gauge will drop drastically and in some cases even off the charts.
Running a wide-band IS and ALWAYS WILL BE better. I am not here to argue, but i dont want people attacking me for using a short band as a rough guideline, because at the end of the day its simply that;....a rough guideline. I will be able to provide the rest of you with actual air/ fuel numbers by the end of the week when the car is dyno'd.
With the STOCK injectors in the car, i ran 16.2 @ 83mph.
When i ran the car with the stock injectors and no fuel management i ran into the following problem. When i would bring up the revs on heavy throttle (whether from a roll or a stop), the car would start making boost right around 2800rpm BUT it would run EXTREMELY lean until about 4000rpm at which point the car would just begin to dump fuel like crazy and pull like no tomorow. This would happen regardless of gear, but only under WOT. If i was running 75-80% throttle and building partial boost, the car would run fairly stoich until that 4k point, and once again dump fuel. Obviously this was presenting a problem as its not good for the engine and/ or performance. I believe it is a matter of the car switching between open/ closed loop.
I tried what some of the tC guys have seen work which is to unplug the primary 02 sensor to lock it out of the loop, but to no avail. I was simply stuck with a CEL and no change in perfomrnace. The same scenario continued.
After adding the tC injectors, the issue was illiminated. I now have a very smooth powerband, and there is no more hesitation. The car always runs rich when i jump on the throttle, and it stays that way throughout the rpms. I have yet to go back to the track with this setup, but i am literally expecting to be in the lower portion of the 15's (the thing feels AWSOME now).
There is one downside to the injectors though....
Unlike the stock trim, if i push the car REALLY hard a few times in a row, i will ocassionally through a CEL for code P0172 (running too rich)
For ME, this is not an issue, as i pull the EFI fuse in between each run to prevent fuel trimming and retarded timing, but for the general public i can see where this would be an issue. Again, this is with NO fuel management, so it may be something easily corrected by some fine tuning.
Regardless of the injectors I used, I have yet to ping/ knock or detonate. The little motor is handling 5lbs consistantly with no issues.
heres my question for all of you...
What is the MOST amount of boost people have run without throwing a rod or breaking any other vital component.
...this afternoon we played around with a Mechanical boost controler a little bit and turned the boost up to 10lbs.
The car ran AWSOME!
The thing was pulling so hard, and i raced my friends rx8 from a 25mph roll and pulled on him by 1.5 lengths. (this rx8 has intake/ exhaust, and my friend driving it owns 4 Supras, two of which run high 9's in the quarter. He currently is in the process of helping me build my car, a few memebers on here can attest to his skills and knowledge base)
...in conclusion to this rambling, i am not promoting running an essentially "untuned" car, but more than less attempting to use some general knowledge and mechanical factors to my advantage. Please list your own personal experiences and what you know as far as limitations of these motors. I am not looking for he said-she said. Im looking for real life info.
I think we have all overlooked the potential of the stock ECU, and how it could potentially ASSIST in the quest for power.
as i mentione before, i will re-run the car wendsday, and hopefully be on the dyno by friday. I will post all the relivant information as it surfaces to assist evryone with there builds.
I havent been on the boards as much lately as i used to be, but im back with some new info, and furthermore... questions.
For those of you who dont know, I am currently running the Greddy kit on my car. My setup consists of the following:
Greddy 14g Turbo (internally gated at 5lbs) and Manifold
2" Intercooler piping
Turbonetics Raptor BOV (recirculating)
Greddy intercooler upgrade
Greddy airinx intake upgrade
tC injectors/ seats
MAF before tubro
Autometer pro-comp short band air/ fuel
Autometer pro-comp boost
...and NO EMANAGE
Ok.
Before i get extremely flamed for not running e-manage, i am NOT promoting this. This is MY setup for a trial/ error bassis and i am hoping that we can all help each other here.
I have been running this setup as-is for roughly 2500 miles now with quite a bit of success. I am still rocking the stock clutch which has yet to slip, and i have brought the car to two (2) track sessions so far.
My interpretation of stoich, rich, and lean ARE in fact provided by my short band. Some people will sit here and argue with me until there blue in the face that the gauge meens nothing...BUT if you are PINNED in either direction, the gauge will give you a solid range. For instance, around town under light loads, then the assumption that the gauge is useless is correct because it will simply dance around and provide a light show, BUT under conditions of extremely rich or extremely lean, the car gauge will correctly display an exceptable guidline. Example: if you hook up a short band air/ fuel gauge and you use a Toyota scan-tool to richen up the injectors (performing a duty cycle) the gauge will read solidly in the green presenting a rich condition. When each injector leans out, the gauge will drop drastically and in some cases even off the charts.
Running a wide-band IS and ALWAYS WILL BE better. I am not here to argue, but i dont want people attacking me for using a short band as a rough guideline, because at the end of the day its simply that;....a rough guideline. I will be able to provide the rest of you with actual air/ fuel numbers by the end of the week when the car is dyno'd.
With the STOCK injectors in the car, i ran 16.2 @ 83mph.
When i ran the car with the stock injectors and no fuel management i ran into the following problem. When i would bring up the revs on heavy throttle (whether from a roll or a stop), the car would start making boost right around 2800rpm BUT it would run EXTREMELY lean until about 4000rpm at which point the car would just begin to dump fuel like crazy and pull like no tomorow. This would happen regardless of gear, but only under WOT. If i was running 75-80% throttle and building partial boost, the car would run fairly stoich until that 4k point, and once again dump fuel. Obviously this was presenting a problem as its not good for the engine and/ or performance. I believe it is a matter of the car switching between open/ closed loop.
I tried what some of the tC guys have seen work which is to unplug the primary 02 sensor to lock it out of the loop, but to no avail. I was simply stuck with a CEL and no change in perfomrnace. The same scenario continued.
After adding the tC injectors, the issue was illiminated. I now have a very smooth powerband, and there is no more hesitation. The car always runs rich when i jump on the throttle, and it stays that way throughout the rpms. I have yet to go back to the track with this setup, but i am literally expecting to be in the lower portion of the 15's (the thing feels AWSOME now).
There is one downside to the injectors though....
Unlike the stock trim, if i push the car REALLY hard a few times in a row, i will ocassionally through a CEL for code P0172 (running too rich)
For ME, this is not an issue, as i pull the EFI fuse in between each run to prevent fuel trimming and retarded timing, but for the general public i can see where this would be an issue. Again, this is with NO fuel management, so it may be something easily corrected by some fine tuning.
Regardless of the injectors I used, I have yet to ping/ knock or detonate. The little motor is handling 5lbs consistantly with no issues.
heres my question for all of you...
What is the MOST amount of boost people have run without throwing a rod or breaking any other vital component.
...this afternoon we played around with a Mechanical boost controler a little bit and turned the boost up to 10lbs.
The car ran AWSOME!
The thing was pulling so hard, and i raced my friends rx8 from a 25mph roll and pulled on him by 1.5 lengths. (this rx8 has intake/ exhaust, and my friend driving it owns 4 Supras, two of which run high 9's in the quarter. He currently is in the process of helping me build my car, a few memebers on here can attest to his skills and knowledge base)
...in conclusion to this rambling, i am not promoting running an essentially "untuned" car, but more than less attempting to use some general knowledge and mechanical factors to my advantage. Please list your own personal experiences and what you know as far as limitations of these motors. I am not looking for he said-she said. Im looking for real life info.
I think we have all overlooked the potential of the stock ECU, and how it could potentially ASSIST in the quest for power.
as i mentione before, i will re-run the car wendsday, and hopefully be on the dyno by friday. I will post all the relivant information as it surfaces to assist evryone with there builds.
05-07-2007, 02:48 AM
#2
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 172
Wow man, some real great info.
I have a question. What happens if you dont pull the EFI fuse? Why do you need to do this?
And under normal, day to day driving, how often do you have to pull it?
Sorry for the ultra-noob question, but im learning!
I have a question. What happens if you dont pull the EFI fuse? Why do you need to do this?
And under normal, day to day driving, how often do you have to pull it?
Sorry for the ultra-noob question, but im learning!
05-07-2007, 09:50 AM
#3
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 646
Ok.
Under normal driving conditions, you shouldnt really see yourself pulling the fuse at all. The only time i have to pull the fuse is if i HAMMER on the car repeatedly for extended periods of time (2 or 3 races back to back).
The reason for pulling the EFI fuse is to simply reset the check engine light, but to also alter the fuel maps.
When the car runs, it logs data from the primary/ secondary 02 sensor, as well as from the MAF sensor. It then procedes to take this info and make adjustments to the fuel maps/ ignition tables to reach a setting of 14.7-15.1 (LEAN for a boosted motor).
By pulling the fuse, you can reset these alterations which the computer has manipulated, and have a somewhat more clean slate to run off of.
hope that explains.
Under normal driving conditions, you shouldnt really see yourself pulling the fuse at all. The only time i have to pull the fuse is if i HAMMER on the car repeatedly for extended periods of time (2 or 3 races back to back).
The reason for pulling the EFI fuse is to simply reset the check engine light, but to also alter the fuel maps.
When the car runs, it logs data from the primary/ secondary 02 sensor, as well as from the MAF sensor. It then procedes to take this info and make adjustments to the fuel maps/ ignition tables to reach a setting of 14.7-15.1 (LEAN for a boosted motor).
By pulling the fuse, you can reset these alterations which the computer has manipulated, and have a somewhat more clean slate to run off of.
hope that explains.
05-07-2007, 02:40 PM
#5
Former Sponsor
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 2,380
Re: How Much, and My Experience.
Originally Posted by bfurches
Hey guys,
I havent been on the boards as much lately as i used to be, but im back with some new info, and furthermore... questions.
For those of you who dont know, I am currently running the Greddy kit on my car. My setup consists of the following:
Greddy 14g Turbo (internally gated at 5lbs) and Manifold
2" Intercooler piping
Turbonetics Raptor BOV (recirculating)
Greddy intercooler upgrade
Greddy airinx intake upgrade
tC injectors/ seats
MAF before tubro
Autometer pro-comp short band air/ fuel
Autometer pro-comp boost
...and NO EMANAGE
Ok.
Before i get extremely flamed for not running e-manage, i am NOT promoting this. This is MY setup for a trial/ error bassis and i am hoping that we can all help each other here.
I have been running this setup as-is for roughly 2500 miles now with quite a bit of success. I am still rocking the stock clutch which has yet to slip, and i have brought the car to two (2) track sessions so far.
My interpretation of stoich, rich, and lean ARE in fact provided by my short band. Some people will sit here and argue with me until there blue in the face that the gauge meens nothing...BUT if you are PINNED in either direction, the gauge will give you a solid range. For instance, around town under light loads, then the assumption that the gauge is useless is correct because it will simply dance around and provide a light show, BUT under conditions of extremely rich or extremely lean, the car gauge will correctly display an exceptable guidline. Example: if you hook up a short band air/ fuel gauge and you use a Toyota scan-tool to richen up the injectors (performing a duty cycle) the gauge will read solidly in the green presenting a rich condition. When each injector leans out, the gauge will drop drastically and in some cases even off the charts.
Running a wide-band IS and ALWAYS WILL BE better. I am not here to argue, but i dont want people attacking me for using a short band as a rough guideline, because at the end of the day its simply that;....a rough guideline. I will be able to provide the rest of you with actual air/ fuel numbers by the end of the week when the car is dyno'd.
With the STOCK injectors in the car, i ran 16.2 @ 83mph.
When i ran the car with the stock injectors and no fuel management i ran into the following problem. When i would bring up the revs on heavy throttle (whether from a roll or a stop), the car would start making boost right around 2800rpm BUT it would run EXTREMELY lean until about 4000rpm at which point the car would just begin to dump fuel like crazy and pull like no tomorow. This would happen regardless of gear, but only under WOT. If i was running 75-80% throttle and building partial boost, the car would run fairly stoich until that 4k point, and once again dump fuel. Obviously this was presenting a problem as its not good for the engine and/ or performance. I believe it is a matter of the car switching between open/ closed loop.
I tried what some of the tC guys have seen work which is to unplug the primary 02 sensor to lock it out of the loop, but to no avail. I was simply stuck with a CEL and no change in perfomrnace. The same scenario continued.
After adding the tC injectors, the issue was illiminated. I now have a very smooth powerband, and there is no more hesitation. The car always runs rich when i jump on the throttle, and it stays that way throughout the rpms. I have yet to go back to the track with this setup, but i am literally expecting to be in the lower portion of the 15's (the thing feels AWSOME now).
There is one downside to the injectors though....
Unlike the stock trim, if i push the car REALLY hard a few times in a row, i will ocassionally through a CEL for code P0172 (running too rich)
For ME, this is not an issue, as i pull the EFI fuse in between each run to prevent fuel trimming and retarded timing, but for the general public i can see where this would be an issue. Again, this is with NO fuel management, so it may be something easily corrected by some fine tuning.
Regardless of the injectors I used, I have yet to ping/ knock or detonate. The little motor is handling 5lbs consistantly with no issues.
heres my question for all of you...
What is the MOST amount of boost people have run without throwing a rod or breaking any other vital component.
...this afternoon we played around with a Mechanical boost controler a little bit and turned the boost up to 10lbs.
The car ran AWSOME!
The thing was pulling so hard, and i raced my friends rx8 from a 25mph roll and pulled on him by 1.5 lengths. (this rx8 has intake/ exhaust, and my friend driving it owns 4 Supras, two of which run high 9's in the quarter. He currently is in the process of helping me build my car, a few memebers on here can attest to his skills and knowledge base)
...in conclusion to this rambling, i am not promoting running an essentially "untuned" car, but more than less attempting to use some general knowledge and mechanical factors to my advantage. Please list your own personal experiences and what you know as far as limitations of these motors. I am not looking for he said-she said. Im looking for real life info.
I think we have all overlooked the potential of the stock ECU, and how it could potentially ASSIST in the quest for power.
as i mentione before, i will re-run the car wendsday, and hopefully be on the dyno by friday. I will post all the relivant information as it surfaces to assist evryone with there builds.
I havent been on the boards as much lately as i used to be, but im back with some new info, and furthermore... questions.
For those of you who dont know, I am currently running the Greddy kit on my car. My setup consists of the following:
Greddy 14g Turbo (internally gated at 5lbs) and Manifold
2" Intercooler piping
Turbonetics Raptor BOV (recirculating)
Greddy intercooler upgrade
Greddy airinx intake upgrade
tC injectors/ seats
MAF before tubro
Autometer pro-comp short band air/ fuel
Autometer pro-comp boost
...and NO EMANAGE
Ok.
Before i get extremely flamed for not running e-manage, i am NOT promoting this. This is MY setup for a trial/ error bassis and i am hoping that we can all help each other here.
I have been running this setup as-is for roughly 2500 miles now with quite a bit of success. I am still rocking the stock clutch which has yet to slip, and i have brought the car to two (2) track sessions so far.
My interpretation of stoich, rich, and lean ARE in fact provided by my short band. Some people will sit here and argue with me until there blue in the face that the gauge meens nothing...BUT if you are PINNED in either direction, the gauge will give you a solid range. For instance, around town under light loads, then the assumption that the gauge is useless is correct because it will simply dance around and provide a light show, BUT under conditions of extremely rich or extremely lean, the car gauge will correctly display an exceptable guidline. Example: if you hook up a short band air/ fuel gauge and you use a Toyota scan-tool to richen up the injectors (performing a duty cycle) the gauge will read solidly in the green presenting a rich condition. When each injector leans out, the gauge will drop drastically and in some cases even off the charts.
Running a wide-band IS and ALWAYS WILL BE better. I am not here to argue, but i dont want people attacking me for using a short band as a rough guideline, because at the end of the day its simply that;....a rough guideline. I will be able to provide the rest of you with actual air/ fuel numbers by the end of the week when the car is dyno'd.
With the STOCK injectors in the car, i ran 16.2 @ 83mph.
When i ran the car with the stock injectors and no fuel management i ran into the following problem. When i would bring up the revs on heavy throttle (whether from a roll or a stop), the car would start making boost right around 2800rpm BUT it would run EXTREMELY lean until about 4000rpm at which point the car would just begin to dump fuel like crazy and pull like no tomorow. This would happen regardless of gear, but only under WOT. If i was running 75-80% throttle and building partial boost, the car would run fairly stoich until that 4k point, and once again dump fuel. Obviously this was presenting a problem as its not good for the engine and/ or performance. I believe it is a matter of the car switching between open/ closed loop.
I tried what some of the tC guys have seen work which is to unplug the primary 02 sensor to lock it out of the loop, but to no avail. I was simply stuck with a CEL and no change in perfomrnace. The same scenario continued.
After adding the tC injectors, the issue was illiminated. I now have a very smooth powerband, and there is no more hesitation. The car always runs rich when i jump on the throttle, and it stays that way throughout the rpms. I have yet to go back to the track with this setup, but i am literally expecting to be in the lower portion of the 15's (the thing feels AWSOME now).
There is one downside to the injectors though....
Unlike the stock trim, if i push the car REALLY hard a few times in a row, i will ocassionally through a CEL for code P0172 (running too rich)
For ME, this is not an issue, as i pull the EFI fuse in between each run to prevent fuel trimming and retarded timing, but for the general public i can see where this would be an issue. Again, this is with NO fuel management, so it may be something easily corrected by some fine tuning.
Regardless of the injectors I used, I have yet to ping/ knock or detonate. The little motor is handling 5lbs consistantly with no issues.
heres my question for all of you...
What is the MOST amount of boost people have run without throwing a rod or breaking any other vital component.
...this afternoon we played around with a Mechanical boost controler a little bit and turned the boost up to 10lbs.
The car ran AWSOME!
The thing was pulling so hard, and i raced my friends rx8 from a 25mph roll and pulled on him by 1.5 lengths. (this rx8 has intake/ exhaust, and my friend driving it owns 4 Supras, two of which run high 9's in the quarter. He currently is in the process of helping me build my car, a few memebers on here can attest to his skills and knowledge base)
...in conclusion to this rambling, i am not promoting running an essentially "untuned" car, but more than less attempting to use some general knowledge and mechanical factors to my advantage. Please list your own personal experiences and what you know as far as limitations of these motors. I am not looking for he said-she said. Im looking for real life info.
I think we have all overlooked the potential of the stock ECU, and how it could potentially ASSIST in the quest for power.
as i mentione before, i will re-run the car wendsday, and hopefully be on the dyno by friday. I will post all the relivant information as it surfaces to assist evryone with there builds.
Alright, I dont know how much insight I can provide here but I will do what I can. As for a narrow band. They are only accurate under WOT. At that point, if you are lean, its going to be too late. One of the FIRST things you should ever purchase when doing a forced induction car is a wideband. They have gotten down there in pricing and is a vital monitoring device, ESPECIALLY in a car with NO fuel management. But anyways, Im sure you knew all that
When I ran my ORIGINAL turbo setup, I didnt have any fuel managment either. I was also running the stock injectors. I would get a studder under WOT conditions while building boost. As soon as I hit full boost, it would clear out and pull hard. My a/f's were always 13:1-13.8 which isnt bad. I NEVER threw a CEL for being too lean or too rich. My CEL always came from a evap leak due to the hole drilled in the sending unit for the return line.
As for how much boost, I ran 10psi consistently and would occasionaly spike up to 12-14psi on hard highway pulls. I have 60K on that same motor right now and its still in the car. Never had a problem. Since that turbo setup, it has also had a supercharger on it, with no problems.....
05-07-2007, 02:59 PM
#6
Senior Member
Team No Limitz
SL Member
Team ScioNRG
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Smithtown Scion (NY)
Posts: 3,789
+1...Ive ran my box with no management on stock block up to about 13psi spikes(6 psi daily and 10 psi with a turboxs MBC). I also had a return line setup, but ran celica injectors, perrin fuel rail and a 255 lp/h walbro GS 341. NO problems whatsoever besides for the stutter that Stu speaks about and I pulled the EFI fuses to change the fuel trims as well. At one point I was using a Camcon right when they first came out...I was on a pre order for a few months and I can say that the car ran the same whether the Camcon was on or off...biggest waste of $375 IMO. I sold the box running in good shape and found out that 6 months down the road the guy blew the rings on the pistons from holding out a standstill burnout. I agree with Stu, you should probly pony up and just get yourself a wideband this way if it starts to lean out dangerously you can just back off throttle quick and save your motor.
05-07-2007, 04:32 PM
#7
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,125
bfurches: I think your doing an excellent job on tuning your car, buying the necessary parts when you need them and not over doing things and wasting your money. Like everyone else has said and im sure you know, buy the wide-band because by the time the short band lets you know your lean, its TOO late.
Simplyscion: Your sure do seem to know alot about boosting our cars, where did you buy the fuel pump?? Do you think its necessary?? Did you really run 10psi without snapping a rod?? Did you ever dyno the car??
I thought our engines only held up to 8psi at the most, with 12psi spikes. As soon as i my turbo kit arrives im running 5 psi and then 7psi, i just dont want to risk blowing my engine.
Here is my setup:
Turbo Toyotas Kit
Celica GTS Injectors
Perrin Fuel Rail
Spec Stage 2 Clutch
All the gauges and electronics necessary, except for the EManage.
Will this work??? Im pretty sure it will i just want it o work well enough to the point that i don't have to change my engine EVER!! I know you have told me before that the camcon is worthless, but thats what im using for now. Will my car run fine or should i buy the fuel pump??
Simplyscion: Your sure do seem to know alot about boosting our cars, where did you buy the fuel pump?? Do you think its necessary?? Did you really run 10psi without snapping a rod?? Did you ever dyno the car??
I thought our engines only held up to 8psi at the most, with 12psi spikes. As soon as i my turbo kit arrives im running 5 psi and then 7psi, i just dont want to risk blowing my engine.
Here is my setup:
Turbo Toyotas Kit
Celica GTS Injectors
Perrin Fuel Rail
Spec Stage 2 Clutch
All the gauges and electronics necessary, except for the EManage.
Will this work??? Im pretty sure it will i just want it o work well enough to the point that i don't have to change my engine EVER!! I know you have told me before that the camcon is worthless, but thats what im using for now. Will my car run fine or should i buy the fuel pump??
05-07-2007, 04:41 PM
#8
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 646
ok guys...
thanks for all the info so far. Stu, i still wanna meet up with you at some point since your not to far away.
My primary reason for not running a wideband is because i use the enw toyota tech-soft tool which actualy shows air/ fuel in grams per second (the reason i didnt post up this info is because people may have misinturpreted the numbers and flamed me non- stop)
you can use a simple equation to convert the data in the scan-tool to a general voltage style air/fuel reading.
quick update, i purchased a Turbonetics boost controler today as well as the plugs which are one step colder.
thanks for all the info so far. Stu, i still wanna meet up with you at some point since your not to far away.
My primary reason for not running a wideband is because i use the enw toyota tech-soft tool which actualy shows air/ fuel in grams per second (the reason i didnt post up this info is because people may have misinturpreted the numbers and flamed me non- stop)
you can use a simple equation to convert the data in the scan-tool to a general voltage style air/fuel reading.
quick update, i purchased a Turbonetics boost controler today as well as the plugs which are one step colder.
05-07-2007, 04:51 PM
#9
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 646
ehh, i guess i should go into a little more detail...
The boost controler is a Turbonetics manual piece (pn 10402-25)
plugs are NGK iridiums (pn BKR6EIX)
...and ehres my feelings on return fuel systems. I know our cars have the static regulator at 45-50psi, but at the same time, i dont really see a need to go much further than that amount of fuel on a 10lb car. I could be completely wrong, so feel free to correct me, but heres how i look at it.
comming off idle/ normal conditions, the car is pushing about 30-35psi.
now you start making boost, and for every 1lb, you need roughly 1psi of fuel (maybe .8 since our motors are so tiny).
even at 10lbs, worst case you would only need 45psi correct? so at what point does the return system help? I would think a 1:1 regulator would be enough correct?
We are working on swapping in a supra pump though...
is the regulator in the tank or part of the pump?
thanks
The boost controler is a Turbonetics manual piece (pn 10402-25)
plugs are NGK iridiums (pn BKR6EIX)
...and ehres my feelings on return fuel systems. I know our cars have the static regulator at 45-50psi, but at the same time, i dont really see a need to go much further than that amount of fuel on a 10lb car. I could be completely wrong, so feel free to correct me, but heres how i look at it.
comming off idle/ normal conditions, the car is pushing about 30-35psi.
now you start making boost, and for every 1lb, you need roughly 1psi of fuel (maybe .8 since our motors are so tiny).
even at 10lbs, worst case you would only need 45psi correct? so at what point does the return system help? I would think a 1:1 regulator would be enough correct?
We are working on swapping in a supra pump though...
is the regulator in the tank or part of the pump?
thanks
05-07-2007, 05:22 PM
#10
Former Sponsor
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 2,380
The regulator is in the tank, in a spot inside the sending unit assembly. Changing out the pump, as Vito and I did, will not do anything for you. I went with the Power Enterprise 160 and I believe Vito did the 190 or maybe a big walbro. Dont really remember. A supra pump is basically a walbro 255 I believe. But unless you can do something about that in tank regulator, you arent going to benefit. I actually jammed a screwdriver in mine and mushed the insides being able to get 55psi or so out of it at my gauge. But yes, a 1:1 regulator is all you would ever need.
Now with the new toyota scan tool, I understand that you can read all that info. But is it datalogged or do you drive around every day with the tool plugged in and watch it as you drive like you can with a wideband? I mean its great to datalog and go back and look at what you run when you are done. But it will suck when you plug it in to see how lean you got it to make the rod come out of the block if you know what Im saying... Cheap insurance, buy the AEM UEGO and be happy.. Its worth the peice of mind.
We will definitley have to meet up sometime, you arent very far from me at all I dont think. My xB is still out of comission right now as its going through some DRASTIC changes..
Now with the new toyota scan tool, I understand that you can read all that info. But is it datalogged or do you drive around every day with the tool plugged in and watch it as you drive like you can with a wideband? I mean its great to datalog and go back and look at what you run when you are done. But it will suck when you plug it in to see how lean you got it to make the rod come out of the block if you know what Im saying... Cheap insurance, buy the AEM UEGO and be happy.. Its worth the peice of mind.
We will definitley have to meet up sometime, you arent very far from me at all I dont think. My xB is still out of comission right now as its going through some DRASTIC changes..
05-08-2007, 11:27 AM
#15
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 646
ok well heres an update...
Yesterday we hooked up the Turbonetics mechanical controller.
For whatever reason, the regulator works BACKWARDS on the greddy turbo.
After hooking the thing up, i completely closed the valve (which should set the pressure to the internally gated 5lbs), took the thing for a ride, and watched the boost spike to 13lbs!
After bringing the car back to the shop, we tried switching the lines around, but to no avail. same issue occurred.
We found that by slowly opening the valve (which essentially would bleed off exhaust and create more boost) actually dropped our levels to the current setup of 8lbs which i reside at now.
...to say the least its weird. We even tried running a different boost source from the charge pipe instead of the turbo, and still no luck!
Im guessing that MAYBE its a bad valve? I am going to bring it to a local boost shop later and see what i can come up with, so sit tight!
Oh....and by the way, that extra 3lbs makes a HUGE difference.
all in favor of video say I.
Yesterday we hooked up the Turbonetics mechanical controller.
For whatever reason, the regulator works BACKWARDS on the greddy turbo.
After hooking the thing up, i completely closed the valve (which should set the pressure to the internally gated 5lbs), took the thing for a ride, and watched the boost spike to 13lbs!
After bringing the car back to the shop, we tried switching the lines around, but to no avail. same issue occurred.
We found that by slowly opening the valve (which essentially would bleed off exhaust and create more boost) actually dropped our levels to the current setup of 8lbs which i reside at now.
...to say the least its weird. We even tried running a different boost source from the charge pipe instead of the turbo, and still no luck!
Im guessing that MAYBE its a bad valve? I am going to bring it to a local boost shop later and see what i can come up with, so sit tight!
Oh....and by the way, that extra 3lbs makes a HUGE difference.
all in favor of video say I.
05-08-2007, 12:58 PM
#17
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 140
you crazy hommie.
i told you greddy turbos are posessed. And if you call greddy and tell them something along the lines of "its not working properly" - they will name a million and a half reasons/parts that are bad, but will never admit their faulty part
anyways, why dont u build up the engine and then boost the hell out of it. U going through all this, might as well build it up
i told you greddy turbos are posessed. And if you call greddy and tell them something along the lines of "its not working properly" - they will name a million and a half reasons/parts that are bad, but will never admit their faulty part
anyways, why dont u build up the engine and then boost the hell out of it. U going through all this, might as well build it up
05-08-2007, 01:46 PM
#20
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 646
yea, your telling me. I have no idea why it would operate backwards. And its not like the normal 1 click= roughly 1 lb....its more like 1 click equals, regulated boost, and back out the one click like 3/4 turn= 10lbs lol.