Maybe I am missing something, but...

Why spend all the extra time, effort and money of installing the fifth injector when you can just install a new fuel rail and larger injectors as suggested above?

 

such a horrible mechanical efficiency should have gotten a Lysholm from a VW

 

If you just put larger injectors in there the vehicle will run VERY rich at an idle and set a check engine light.

This 5th injector mod allows the car to remain stock when not under boost. the 5th would only kick in when needed.

 

Trust me, if I had the money I would go Lysholm. Lysholm blower is $1500, used M62 is $200-300.

 

"such a horrible mechanical efficiency should have gotten a Lysholm from a VW "

*sigh*, please enlighten us... do you have some actual data on why it is so 'horrible'?

I can take critic's comments, but please, if your going to just smash the idea with one sentance, have the heart to back it up.

As said, WAY cheaper for a used M62. And incase everyone has forgotten, the current kits on the market use the brother to the m62, the m45... so that would mean they are useless also. Sweet.

I don't know about the 5th injector. I know it will help, but, I would like to have a link to some more reading on it if you have a chance ctruss. Thanks!

 

there will al ways be nay sayers , keep going. if you are having fun with this project thats all that matters. personally i hope it works out. I am all for cheep yet well engineered projects and it sounds like you are doing your home work. good luck and keep us all posted.

 

the horsepower required to turn the M62 at enough RPM to create say.. 10 PSI.. is gonna be about 30% higher than a properly sized lysholm.

does that explain efficiency to you? the SC is too big for such a small motor (like running around with a huge turbo... only in this case, the 1.5 doesnt make enough power to warrant such a large blower, where in the case of a turbo, you'd never put out enough exhaust gas to turn a large turbine.

here's your data.
M62


sorry for the crappy size.. also, this is a third generation M62, so if you have an older unit, (which you do, i'm guessing, with a price like that) expect efficiencies to suck even worse.

looks like about 35HP is used at 10 psi and full speed.... just about what it's gonna try and MAKE on the car.

here's a properly sized Lysholm (whipple, Blitz)



even at 2:1 pressure ratio (14.7PSI) and 12000 RPM, the lysholm/blitz/whipple/kennebell (all twin screw designs) only requires 28KW (21HP) to turn...

i'm not trying to rain on your parade, but you really might end up with an even slower 1nzfe...

 

All of that very interesting info aside... The concern for me with a fifth injector before the blower, is that there is a small risk of exploding the blower.
Theoreticly
If you add fuel to the air going into the blower where compression is made that sounds a bit like what a cylinder of an engine is. imagine if that compressed mixture of air and gas were somehow ignited ::BOOM::
probably would never happen, but it could maybe

 

Tomago,

Thanks for backing up your post. One thing you are forgetting in the equasions is that being a larger blower, it does not need to spin as fast to FLOW the same amount of air as a smaller blower. I did the calculations and 6psi will require in the range of 200 CFM if I recall (i'll double check my figures when I get home), on the 1.5L 1nz-fe. Being that my target for now IS 6psi, I would have to limit the blower to around 7500RPM. Looking at the charts, this lands us at around 9-10HP required, not anywhere close to 35.

Also remember that the 7500RPM is PEAK. You have a ratio of pulley size of the crank to the blower and as you spin the engine faster, thus so does the blower. It is a rising rate and yes would require 10ish HP at peak througput (6000 rpm @ 6psi) but will be less at lower RPM speeds where less CFM is required to supply the 6psi.

Now, I seriously am not a science major. I have general theory to back me and real world experience with blowers. I am in NO way saying an older generation M62 is better than a Lysolm or Brand X blower... I am simply saying it is VERY cheap to find these things in comparison to new ones and that the power requirement to spin it is not as high as you believe it to be.

Besides, who says I won't turn up the boost later? Why start with a tiny blower only to run out of GO?? ;)

By all means point out something I missed but I do not believe it is near as drastic as you have pointed out. In any event, it's going to happen.. my new working M62 is in the mail and will be here soon.

Machine work will begin in the next two weeks $$ permitting with it *hopefully* completed by very early May.

Again, don't take this as an attack, I sure as heck do not know everything.

 

To the comment regarding exploding blowers.. fear not.. the temperature required to ignight fuel is near 500degrees.. outlet temps will be under 200 degrees. Highest I have personally encountered was a tinge below 300.

The compression doesn't accually occur in the rotors themselves, it occurs by packing more air into the outlet side and intake manifold than the engine can physically consume. now, if you set off a spark hot enough to fire off that mixture, then yes you would have problems, but the compression that takes place is not enough to set off the fuel by itself.

Hope this helps.

 

i guess all we can say is...

lets wait and see..

just hope this isn't a "cheap now, expensive later" approach to boost..

 

The blower is sound, it's mounting will be sound. If anything the outlet temps will be a bit higher than a better blower and it may not give as much HP pound for pound.

The way I figure it this blower is capable of delivering a rather large amount of air while still remaining somewhat efficient. I have used this blower before in my 92' SSEi and it is rock solid.

I'll be totally honest and say my research says it will work fine, but it's entirely possible it will suck more than blow LOL. One thing is for sure though, it will not be a hodge poge and will be built well to avoid problems in the future. It's cheap because the blower is cheap. Thus we are talking ~$600 for the kit instead of $1600-2000.

 

yes i agree, the blower is the huge $$ factor, but after that, make sure and build it up right ;) (not that you wouldn't)

have you looked at mega squirt for fuel management?

 

Trust me, if I had the money the Lysholm blower would me my choice because it is the moct effecient blower. To top that off, Bahn-Brenner sells about 20 different sized pulleys for it so you can fine tune the boost.

 

It really is too bad that Whipple is so ridiculously expensive with everything that they do. You can buy all the different basic components separately from them, but the prices are crazy!

They are located in Fresno, and I have been to their shop once. I also had a friend who bought one of the first PT Cruisers in California when they were originally released. His was the PT used to prototype their supercharger kit. And what did he get for it? Nothing, nada, zip, zilch, zero! No comp'd supercharger. No price break on the supercharger. Nothing. They just removed the supercharger when they were done and that was it. Well, I guess a thank you isn't nothing.

Regardless of all that, I still drool every time I see a Whipple equipped vehicle. It is unfortunate that even if they ever did come out with a kit it would cost 1/3 the value of our cars!

 

whipple buys the SC from Lysholm industries..

 

... That was until recently, Whipple is now either sourcing them elsewhere or has begun to produce them themselves. Lysolm bricked big time with supply issues over the years and recently hosed whipple when they were going to be supplying the blowers for the next cobra on the current gen mustang.

Regardless.. yes, I intend to build this up well with aluminum to keep the weight down. My wife is an Underbody Weld Engineer with Toyota and has knowledge of structural integrity and materials that blows my mind. She won't let me run something that isn't solid

"have you looked at mega squirt for fuel management?" No, what are some details about it? Link?

I would like more information on this car's MAF and the kind of tables it has.. last thing I want to do is run out of the tables that meter the air coming in!!

 

.... Well at least that is what I heard.... I know the new 'AX' line of blowers isn't lysolm.

 

www.megasquirt.info

 

Interesting............