The Big-3
01-13-2006, 02:56 AM
#1
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Just to the right of Hell
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The Big-3
Taken from CarReview.com
The Big-3 will replace audio capacitors for as little as $10 for the cheap wire and connectors and as expensive as $40 for the super thick competition grade wires and connectors.
I'll break it down for you, but I can tell you that I'm no authority in this subject.
For one thing, the cap is helping and hurting the output of the sub. While it does help keep the lights from dimming, it also limits the output voltage the amplifier can get. You can fix the problem with the lights dimming by doing a simple upgrade to your charging system (specifically the ground wires). Doing something called the "Big-3" to the box will substantially reduce the amount of dimming on the dash and headlights by giving an effecient charging circuit to the main parts of the box. I've run 2000W setups without using caps and didn't have a problem with dimming at all. The key is to free up the constriction between the alternator, battery, and engine block.
The three main wires are as follows:
1. Negative battery terminal to chassis ground
2. Negative battery terminal to engine ground
3. Positive battery terminal to alternator positive
The gauge you should run without upgrading the alternator is 4AWG but you can go as big as you like (more than 4AWG is just overkill unless you've upgraded your alternator). When upgrading the three main leads, don't replace them but rather add to the existing connections. Total cost of doing something like this with professional grade wire is about $20 with all the connectors needed to make it happen.
The cap is nothing more than a bandaid of a larger problem. Doing the Big-3 will fix the problem at minimal cost. Now, once you've completed the Big-3, you can upgrade the battery or alternator at your leisure. You can also leave the capacitor in place if you really want to, just keep in mind you are hindering the amplifier's potential by restricting the voltage. Most of the "show" caps will say they output a stable 14.1V but usually only sustain 12.7-13.1V.
Now for the bad part about caps. A 1F cap can not hold more than half a second of line filtering capacity. Yes it may sound like the bass notes are tighter at first, but you don't hear how sloppy they get unless you are playing some heavy continous bass tones. The quality of the lower notes degrade very fast after each bass note hit. Now, instead of only having the battery to charge, the alternator has two "batteries" to charge. A properly setup charging system will be able to sustain a constant voltage to the battery and all of the accessories available. If the lights were dimming before, you are shortening the life of the battery by forcing the currents to charge the cap constantly and lowering the voltage draw which charges the battery. You can get a gel cell battery like an Optima to fix that problem though, but that's an expensive fix and the problem of constricted grounds is still there even with the upgraded battery.
So then, instead of spending $20 to fix the dimming problem, you slapped a bandaid on it for $100 adding to a potential problem. The bandaid to the bandaid is yet another $100+ by using a gel cell battery but the problem still exists. You could then fix that problem by upgrading the alternator for about 200 or so, totalling the cost out to 400+ when it could have been taken care of with a small $20 fix. The guy who holds the patent on capacitors for car audio won't even use them and he said himself they were designed to make money, snake-oil if you will.
Try this, go over to a dedicated car audio forum and ask if a capacitor should be used to fix dash and headlight dimming. Pick from any of them. You'll hear both sides, but mostly the information I'm spouting will be coming from the camp with the most facts about a capacitors usage in car audio. Now, go to a retail store like best buy or circuit city and ask about the downfalls of capacitors. You will probably get laughed at or get dumb looks. If you go to a dedicated car audio shop and speak with the installers (the ones who dedicate their lives in this stuff, not just the drones) you will hear the whys and whynots of buying a cap. The better install shops will offer one if you want to buy it, but tell you the proper usage and other options over the install of a cap (such as the Big-3).
I've got more information on caps, but like I said, I'm no authority in this subject. I've only seen the results of cap usage and how to improve upon the idea without using caps.
Later when I have a bit more time, I will provide pictures for this technical thread. Feel free to post any findings regarding the Big-3 and how it has effected your personal setup.
Originally Posted by CarReview.com
As many of you know, upgrading the "Big 3" wires in your engine compartment can lower the overall resistance of your entire electrical system. The effects of the lower resistance are typically:
1) Reduced dimming and smaller voltage drops
2) More stable voltage and better current flow
3) Less strain on your vehicle's charging system
So for those of you looking for a cheap and easy way to upgrade your system and help out your electrical system without adding a high output alternator or an aftermarket battery, this is the modification for you. If you have heavy dimming or are getting large voltage drops during loud bass hits, but you don't have the money to spend on a high output alternator or a battery, upgrading your vehicle's "Big 3" will usually help to reduce and sometimes even eliminate the problems. So without further ado, the "Big 3" wires are:
1) Battery negative to chassis
2) Alternator to battery positive
3) Chassis to engine
Now, I suppose it would help if I explained what each of these wires does, and to do that I would like to paraphrase an explanation by IMTfox from a while ago: Think of your vehicle's charging system as two different circuits, one consisting of your amplifier and your battery, and the other consisting of your alternator and your battery. The current in your electrical system flows from your positive battery terminal to your amp, from your amp's ground to the chassis, and then from the chassis back to the negative battery terminal. But how does it get to the positive terminal in the first place? That's where the alternator comes in. Current in the second circuit flows from your alternator's positive post to the battery's positive terminal, then from the battery's negative terminal to the chassis, and from the chassis back to the block, which happens to be the grounding point for your alternator.
So, from your battery, you have the power wire going to the power terminal on your amplifier and then your amplifier is grounded to the chassis of the vehicle. From here the current needs a way to get back to the negative battery terminal, and that way is through the first of the "Big 3," the battery negative to chassis wire. Upgrading this wire will "upgrade" the circuit between your battery and your amp by giving the current a larger path to flow through to get back to the battery.
Now, think of your alternator as the battery and your battery as the amp. From the positive post on your alternator, you have the second of the "Big 3," the alternator to battery positive wire supplying "power" to your battery. From there the battery, just like your amp, is grounded to the chassis through the wire mentioned in the previous paragraph. Again, the current needs a way to get from the chassis back to the alternator's "negative terminal" and that way is through the last of the "Big 3," the chassis to engine wire. Since your alternator is most likely mounted to your engine block using a metal or conductive mounting bracket, you can simply add your new wire from the chassis to one of the mounting posts for the alternator. Upgrading these two wires will "upgrade" the circuit between your alternator and your battery, again giving the current a larger path to flow through.
----------------------------------------------
Now that you understand exactly what the "Big 3" do, it's time to upgrade them to a larger gauge wire. You can use regular power wire from installing your car audio equipment, ring terminals, and crimping equipment just the same as you would for any other install. Let's start with the first of the "Big 3," the battery negative to chassis wire:
1) Disconnect your battery's negative terminal and get the stock wiring out of the way. You might have to cut it and crimp a new ring terminal onto it. I found it helpful to use aftermarket battery terminals with multiple ports on them also.
2) Scrape away the paint and drill the hole for your connection of the larger wire, or connect it to the stock grounding point. Either way you do it, make sure it is bare chassis metal, not covered by paint, and that the connection is as tight and secure as possible:
3) Secure the new wire to the chassis and reconnect the vehicle's stock chassis ground, but DON'T reconnect the vehicle's negative battery terminal yet! You may find it helpful to cover the negative battery terminal with a cloth or other non-conductive material and just lay the terminal on it until you're ready to reconnect it later.
Moving on to the next of the "Big 3," let's upgrade the alternator to battery positive wire:
4) Locate the vehicle's alternator and look for a terminal post connected to it. The post shouldn't be hard to find. It should have only one wire connected to it, and it should lead to the positive terminal on the battery, possibly through the fuse box.
5) Disconnect the stock alternator to battery positive wire from the positive post and connect it to the post again with the new wire added.
6) Run the wire either through your fuse box if applicable or through a fuse. The fuse should be sized to match the max ampacity of your wire, not the output capability of your alternator. As you can see I just went through the fuse box, so my upgrade is probably not making as much of a difference as it could if it were fused externally, but my alternator is capable of withstanding the draws anyway so I'm not particularly worried about it. If I ever begin to see a problem w/ current draws, I will probably fuse the wire externally with a 300A or so fuse...
7) From the fuse, connect the wire to the positive terminal on your battery, again, leaving the stock wiring connected when you're done. The picture below shows the alternator to battery positive wire run from the alternator through my fuse box to the positive battery terminal.
---
Last, let's move to the chassis to engine wire: (Again, because your alternator is grounded to the block, all you need to do is find a bolt somewhere on the block and connect it to the chassis. The alternator's mounting bracket is usually a good place to find these bolts).
8) Again, either drill a new hole or connect this wire to the stock chassis ground. From the chassis ground, run the wire back to one of the mounting posts for the alternator (or to a bolt on the engine block).
9) That's it! You're done. Reconnect the vehicle's negative battery terminal and check out the difference! Below is a shot of the "Big 3" upgraded in my car. The other wire you see coming out of the battery's positive terminal is obviously my amp's power wire.
----------------------------------------------
Helpful hints:
1) Leave the stock wiring attached after you're done. Don't replace the stock wiring, add onto it. Current will take the path of least resistance anyway, so replacing the stock wire will only make more work for yourself.
2) When fusing your alternator to battery positive wire, fuse it toward the battery end of the wire. As IMTfox points out later in this thread, the battery will explode if it's overloaded, while the alternator will only burn out its regulator which won't cause much damage except to the alternator itself. Exploding batteries are no fun!
3) When crimping large gauge terminals for 1/0awg and sometimes even 4awg, a vice works well. Crimp one side of the terminal at a time, creating an overlapping edge. Put the boot around this and then wrap it in electrical tape if you want. the most secure connections will occur in this way.
4) Lastly, prepare all your materials and tools BEFORE you are ready to upgrade. Know what you are doing before you start so you can be done as quick as possible. The majority of vehicles have computers that will reset after the battery is disconnected for a long time and they can cause older vehicles to do strange things if they reset.
Hopefully this clears up most of the questions you had about why we upgrade the "Big 3" and how it helps to stop dimming and other electrical problems.
1) Reduced dimming and smaller voltage drops
2) More stable voltage and better current flow
3) Less strain on your vehicle's charging system
So for those of you looking for a cheap and easy way to upgrade your system and help out your electrical system without adding a high output alternator or an aftermarket battery, this is the modification for you. If you have heavy dimming or are getting large voltage drops during loud bass hits, but you don't have the money to spend on a high output alternator or a battery, upgrading your vehicle's "Big 3" will usually help to reduce and sometimes even eliminate the problems. So without further ado, the "Big 3" wires are:
1) Battery negative to chassis
2) Alternator to battery positive
3) Chassis to engine
Now, I suppose it would help if I explained what each of these wires does, and to do that I would like to paraphrase an explanation by IMTfox from a while ago: Think of your vehicle's charging system as two different circuits, one consisting of your amplifier and your battery, and the other consisting of your alternator and your battery. The current in your electrical system flows from your positive battery terminal to your amp, from your amp's ground to the chassis, and then from the chassis back to the negative battery terminal. But how does it get to the positive terminal in the first place? That's where the alternator comes in. Current in the second circuit flows from your alternator's positive post to the battery's positive terminal, then from the battery's negative terminal to the chassis, and from the chassis back to the block, which happens to be the grounding point for your alternator.
So, from your battery, you have the power wire going to the power terminal on your amplifier and then your amplifier is grounded to the chassis of the vehicle. From here the current needs a way to get back to the negative battery terminal, and that way is through the first of the "Big 3," the battery negative to chassis wire. Upgrading this wire will "upgrade" the circuit between your battery and your amp by giving the current a larger path to flow through to get back to the battery.
Now, think of your alternator as the battery and your battery as the amp. From the positive post on your alternator, you have the second of the "Big 3," the alternator to battery positive wire supplying "power" to your battery. From there the battery, just like your amp, is grounded to the chassis through the wire mentioned in the previous paragraph. Again, the current needs a way to get from the chassis back to the alternator's "negative terminal" and that way is through the last of the "Big 3," the chassis to engine wire. Since your alternator is most likely mounted to your engine block using a metal or conductive mounting bracket, you can simply add your new wire from the chassis to one of the mounting posts for the alternator. Upgrading these two wires will "upgrade" the circuit between your alternator and your battery, again giving the current a larger path to flow through.
----------------------------------------------
Now that you understand exactly what the "Big 3" do, it's time to upgrade them to a larger gauge wire. You can use regular power wire from installing your car audio equipment, ring terminals, and crimping equipment just the same as you would for any other install. Let's start with the first of the "Big 3," the battery negative to chassis wire:
1) Disconnect your battery's negative terminal and get the stock wiring out of the way. You might have to cut it and crimp a new ring terminal onto it. I found it helpful to use aftermarket battery terminals with multiple ports on them also.
2) Scrape away the paint and drill the hole for your connection of the larger wire, or connect it to the stock grounding point. Either way you do it, make sure it is bare chassis metal, not covered by paint, and that the connection is as tight and secure as possible:
3) Secure the new wire to the chassis and reconnect the vehicle's stock chassis ground, but DON'T reconnect the vehicle's negative battery terminal yet! You may find it helpful to cover the negative battery terminal with a cloth or other non-conductive material and just lay the terminal on it until you're ready to reconnect it later.
Moving on to the next of the "Big 3," let's upgrade the alternator to battery positive wire:
4) Locate the vehicle's alternator and look for a terminal post connected to it. The post shouldn't be hard to find. It should have only one wire connected to it, and it should lead to the positive terminal on the battery, possibly through the fuse box.
5) Disconnect the stock alternator to battery positive wire from the positive post and connect it to the post again with the new wire added.
6) Run the wire either through your fuse box if applicable or through a fuse. The fuse should be sized to match the max ampacity of your wire, not the output capability of your alternator. As you can see I just went through the fuse box, so my upgrade is probably not making as much of a difference as it could if it were fused externally, but my alternator is capable of withstanding the draws anyway so I'm not particularly worried about it. If I ever begin to see a problem w/ current draws, I will probably fuse the wire externally with a 300A or so fuse...
7) From the fuse, connect the wire to the positive terminal on your battery, again, leaving the stock wiring connected when you're done. The picture below shows the alternator to battery positive wire run from the alternator through my fuse box to the positive battery terminal.
---
Last, let's move to the chassis to engine wire: (Again, because your alternator is grounded to the block, all you need to do is find a bolt somewhere on the block and connect it to the chassis. The alternator's mounting bracket is usually a good place to find these bolts).
8) Again, either drill a new hole or connect this wire to the stock chassis ground. From the chassis ground, run the wire back to one of the mounting posts for the alternator (or to a bolt on the engine block).
9) That's it! You're done. Reconnect the vehicle's negative battery terminal and check out the difference! Below is a shot of the "Big 3" upgraded in my car. The other wire you see coming out of the battery's positive terminal is obviously my amp's power wire.
----------------------------------------------
Helpful hints:
1) Leave the stock wiring attached after you're done. Don't replace the stock wiring, add onto it. Current will take the path of least resistance anyway, so replacing the stock wire will only make more work for yourself.
2) When fusing your alternator to battery positive wire, fuse it toward the battery end of the wire. As IMTfox points out later in this thread, the battery will explode if it's overloaded, while the alternator will only burn out its regulator which won't cause much damage except to the alternator itself. Exploding batteries are no fun!
3) When crimping large gauge terminals for 1/0awg and sometimes even 4awg, a vice works well. Crimp one side of the terminal at a time, creating an overlapping edge. Put the boot around this and then wrap it in electrical tape if you want. the most secure connections will occur in this way.
4) Lastly, prepare all your materials and tools BEFORE you are ready to upgrade. Know what you are doing before you start so you can be done as quick as possible. The majority of vehicles have computers that will reset after the battery is disconnected for a long time and they can cause older vehicles to do strange things if they reset.
Hopefully this clears up most of the questions you had about why we upgrade the "Big 3" and how it helps to stop dimming and other electrical problems.
I'll break it down for you, but I can tell you that I'm no authority in this subject.
For one thing, the cap is helping and hurting the output of the sub. While it does help keep the lights from dimming, it also limits the output voltage the amplifier can get. You can fix the problem with the lights dimming by doing a simple upgrade to your charging system (specifically the ground wires). Doing something called the "Big-3" to the box will substantially reduce the amount of dimming on the dash and headlights by giving an effecient charging circuit to the main parts of the box. I've run 2000W setups without using caps and didn't have a problem with dimming at all. The key is to free up the constriction between the alternator, battery, and engine block.
The three main wires are as follows:
1. Negative battery terminal to chassis ground
2. Negative battery terminal to engine ground
3. Positive battery terminal to alternator positive
The gauge you should run without upgrading the alternator is 4AWG but you can go as big as you like (more than 4AWG is just overkill unless you've upgraded your alternator). When upgrading the three main leads, don't replace them but rather add to the existing connections. Total cost of doing something like this with professional grade wire is about $20 with all the connectors needed to make it happen.
The cap is nothing more than a bandaid of a larger problem. Doing the Big-3 will fix the problem at minimal cost. Now, once you've completed the Big-3, you can upgrade the battery or alternator at your leisure. You can also leave the capacitor in place if you really want to, just keep in mind you are hindering the amplifier's potential by restricting the voltage. Most of the "show" caps will say they output a stable 14.1V but usually only sustain 12.7-13.1V.
Now for the bad part about caps. A 1F cap can not hold more than half a second of line filtering capacity. Yes it may sound like the bass notes are tighter at first, but you don't hear how sloppy they get unless you are playing some heavy continous bass tones. The quality of the lower notes degrade very fast after each bass note hit. Now, instead of only having the battery to charge, the alternator has two "batteries" to charge. A properly setup charging system will be able to sustain a constant voltage to the battery and all of the accessories available. If the lights were dimming before, you are shortening the life of the battery by forcing the currents to charge the cap constantly and lowering the voltage draw which charges the battery. You can get a gel cell battery like an Optima to fix that problem though, but that's an expensive fix and the problem of constricted grounds is still there even with the upgraded battery.
So then, instead of spending $20 to fix the dimming problem, you slapped a bandaid on it for $100 adding to a potential problem. The bandaid to the bandaid is yet another $100+ by using a gel cell battery but the problem still exists. You could then fix that problem by upgrading the alternator for about 200 or so, totalling the cost out to 400+ when it could have been taken care of with a small $20 fix. The guy who holds the patent on capacitors for car audio won't even use them and he said himself they were designed to make money, snake-oil if you will.
Try this, go over to a dedicated car audio forum and ask if a capacitor should be used to fix dash and headlight dimming. Pick from any of them. You'll hear both sides, but mostly the information I'm spouting will be coming from the camp with the most facts about a capacitors usage in car audio. Now, go to a retail store like best buy or circuit city and ask about the downfalls of capacitors. You will probably get laughed at or get dumb looks. If you go to a dedicated car audio shop and speak with the installers (the ones who dedicate their lives in this stuff, not just the drones) you will hear the whys and whynots of buying a cap. The better install shops will offer one if you want to buy it, but tell you the proper usage and other options over the install of a cap (such as the Big-3).
I've got more information on caps, but like I said, I'm no authority in this subject. I've only seen the results of cap usage and how to improve upon the idea without using caps.
Later when I have a bit more time, I will provide pictures for this technical thread. Feel free to post any findings regarding the Big-3 and how it has effected your personal setup.
01-13-2006, 05:10 AM
#3
Senior Member
SL Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Just to the right of Hell
Posts: 495
If you search for "car audio" and "big-3" on any search engine, you will find copious amounts of people posting the same questions over and over. You will also find some how-tos on the subject as well. You could buy a grounding kit off eBay but it would be cheaper to make your own once you know the mounts. I haven't done much to my box yet (not even the big-3) and will take some pics in the process of putting it all together. Unfortunately, it will have to wait until Spring break since I work two jobs and go to school half-time.
Oh yeah, I've done this mod on two other cars I owned and at least fifteen or more on others. It works like you wouldn't believe. Also, if you leave out any single lead of the big-3, you won't see much difference at all. It's when the big-3 is complete that the charging system is more effecient.
Oh yeah, I've done this mod on two other cars I owned and at least fifteen or more on others. It works like you wouldn't believe. Also, if you leave out any single lead of the big-3, you won't see much difference at all. It's when the big-3 is complete that the charging system is more effecient.
01-13-2006, 12:35 PM
#5
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Deland, Florida
Posts: 1,105
Scion uses I think 8ga. wire going to the alternator. if it is only a 3-5 foot run the wire can handle up to a 200 amp curret draw, way more that the facatory alternator could produce. IMO a waste of time. but it looks pretty under the hood and can't hurt anything so why not?
01-30-2006, 03:54 PM
#7
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Scikotics
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 490
This was taken from Carsound & Performance Forums, With Richard Clark as the Moderator.
Richard Clark is THE guy who brought large capacitors to general public awareness for use in car audio. This may help explain why there is so much confusion, misunderstanding and misinformation concerning large caps.
If you would like to read the complete thread, if can be found here:
http://www.carsound.com/UBB/ultimate...1;t=022965;p=1
Doing the big 3 may be a good idea, but it still won't do what a large, low ESR cap will. Adding a large cap with a low ESR after doing the big three will still be benificial. Just make sure it is a low ESR cap(<.001 or better) and you'll have the right cap for the job as they were originally intended.
Richard Clark is THE guy who brought large capacitors to general public awareness for use in car audio. This may help explain why there is so much confusion, misunderstanding and misinformation concerning large caps.
Richard Clark
Moderator
Member # 8
posted October 11, 2004 04:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by damacman:
Mr. Clark - sorry, I've been out of the car audio scene for some time now. When I was involved in the early 90s, it seemed as if you were a huge proponent of capacitors. Apparently, I've missed lots in this regard over the last 10 years. Anyhow, I'd be interested in your experience with this newer technology in capacitors. Why so eager to dismiss it as bunk?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
guys---------the physics of how caps work and how they could be beneficial hasn't changed--------what has changed is that 10 years ago caps were simple two terminal devices designed by electrical engineers for certain well understood specifications-------today "car audio" caps are complex, eye pleasing devices designed by "markineers"---------looks before function--------an example--------last week i recieved several caps from a large accesory company interested in marketing a "new" cap----------along with their prototype they sent a few of their competitors products so i could compare them--------sort of what we call benchmarking---------two of the caps were a couple of the "hybrid" type-------the packaging claims a combination of electrolitic and carbon type for the ultimate conbination-------these things had chrome cases similar to amplifiers, had colored plexi and built in distro blocks, real pieces of art!!!!----------NOW-------for those of you that understand the basics you should know that no matter how big a cap is if it is gonna help a system in any way it must have low impedance--------impedance of a cap is no different than a speaker-------- the impedance number is the lumped values of ESR and ESL---------anyone that doesn't understand this should find my long multipage cap thread of 4 years ago and study it--------ten years ago i set a couple "standards" that have been thrown around ever since------the first was "a farad per killowat" and the other was " a caps impedance (combination of esl/esr) should be less than a milliohm"-------if you have ever heard either of these statements they came from me first back in 1989----------now for 2004-------- of the 5 caps i tested only 2 would stand a chance to benefit a system-------the impedance of the 3 electrolitics (all 1 Farad) ranged from .0007 to .002---------and of the super "hybrid" units the 10 farad measured .004 and the superduper 35 farad measured .02--------later i will have Brian post the actual measurements and later i will explain how the relatively simple test works----------really i can't understand how an entire industry can be so duped into buying what is probably millions of dollars of blue sky--------it would seem that there would be at least one honest magazine that could place technical excellence over ad dollars but i guess not-----------i know the marketing guys hate me when i call BS on their nonsense so i'm willing to make a offer----------ANYBODY come show me how one of these pieces of junk can actually help the power demands of a 12v system and i promise to go to IRAQ and stand in the center of Baghdad and curse Allah..............RC
--------------------
A2000Rich
Moderator
Member # 8
posted October 11, 2004 04:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by damacman:
Mr. Clark - sorry, I've been out of the car audio scene for some time now. When I was involved in the early 90s, it seemed as if you were a huge proponent of capacitors. Apparently, I've missed lots in this regard over the last 10 years. Anyhow, I'd be interested in your experience with this newer technology in capacitors. Why so eager to dismiss it as bunk?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
guys---------the physics of how caps work and how they could be beneficial hasn't changed--------what has changed is that 10 years ago caps were simple two terminal devices designed by electrical engineers for certain well understood specifications-------today "car audio" caps are complex, eye pleasing devices designed by "markineers"---------looks before function--------an example--------last week i recieved several caps from a large accesory company interested in marketing a "new" cap----------along with their prototype they sent a few of their competitors products so i could compare them--------sort of what we call benchmarking---------two of the caps were a couple of the "hybrid" type-------the packaging claims a combination of electrolitic and carbon type for the ultimate conbination-------these things had chrome cases similar to amplifiers, had colored plexi and built in distro blocks, real pieces of art!!!!----------NOW-------for those of you that understand the basics you should know that no matter how big a cap is if it is gonna help a system in any way it must have low impedance--------impedance of a cap is no different than a speaker-------- the impedance number is the lumped values of ESR and ESL---------anyone that doesn't understand this should find my long multipage cap thread of 4 years ago and study it--------ten years ago i set a couple "standards" that have been thrown around ever since------the first was "a farad per killowat" and the other was " a caps impedance (combination of esl/esr) should be less than a milliohm"-------if you have ever heard either of these statements they came from me first back in 1989----------now for 2004-------- of the 5 caps i tested only 2 would stand a chance to benefit a system-------the impedance of the 3 electrolitics (all 1 Farad) ranged from .0007 to .002---------and of the super "hybrid" units the 10 farad measured .004 and the superduper 35 farad measured .02--------later i will have Brian post the actual measurements and later i will explain how the relatively simple test works----------really i can't understand how an entire industry can be so duped into buying what is probably millions of dollars of blue sky--------it would seem that there would be at least one honest magazine that could place technical excellence over ad dollars but i guess not-----------i know the marketing guys hate me when i call BS on their nonsense so i'm willing to make a offer----------ANYBODY come show me how one of these pieces of junk can actually help the power demands of a 12v system and i promise to go to IRAQ and stand in the center of Baghdad and curse Allah..............RC
--------------------
A2000Rich
http://www.carsound.com/UBB/ultimate...1;t=022965;p=1
Doing the big 3 may be a good idea, but it still won't do what a large, low ESR cap will. Adding a large cap with a low ESR after doing the big three will still be benificial. Just make sure it is a low ESR cap(<.001 or better) and you'll have the right cap for the job as they were originally intended.
