electrical experts and stereo/NAV guru's help needed.
08-03-2005, 08:09 PM
#1
Senior Member
SL Member
Team ScioNRG
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Burke, VA
Posts: 1,326
electrical experts and stereo/NAV guru's help needed.
I've run into a rather perplexing problem here and need some fresh input.
I have a problem with my Eclipse AVN 5435. I get the "check speed pulse" message on the Nav screen. In addition to that, I never get voice guidance, just the "please proceed to the higlighted route, and guidance will begin" at the start of where I'm going, and "you have arrived at your destination" at the end. I never hear any turn by turn information. I know this is typical of the speed sense wire not being connected. I know that the unit is installed correctly. I've double and triple checked the wires and connections
So I took the unit to an anuthorized dealer. Eclipse sent out a brand new unit, but that did not fix the issue either.
The speed sense wire is connected to the Purple wire in the ECU. As I said before, I'm sure it is the correct wire. The authorized dealer is telling me that perhaps the speed sense wire is bad.
So my questions are:
Has anyone conencted a multimeter to the speedsense wire? What kind of return should I be looking for? Just voltage on/off under accell/deaccel? Or something else entirely? If anyone has a NAV system that is working, regardless of brand, and is willing to check that wire with a multimeter, I would be very appreciative.
Lastly, does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions of where to troubleshoot? I'm thinking perhaps maybe the wiring harness is bad. I doubt it's the GPS antenna, as the vehicles position on the map does update, and the GPS functions themselves seem to work, just not the voice guidance. I'm wondering if it's possible/likely that the harness and or diode/resister on the speed wire are somehow bad, and that is preventing the speed sense wire from reporting the information correctly..
Thoughts, help? I'm out of ideas.
Thanks in advance!
Toast
I have a problem with my Eclipse AVN 5435. I get the "check speed pulse" message on the Nav screen. In addition to that, I never get voice guidance, just the "please proceed to the higlighted route, and guidance will begin" at the start of where I'm going, and "you have arrived at your destination" at the end. I never hear any turn by turn information. I know this is typical of the speed sense wire not being connected. I know that the unit is installed correctly. I've double and triple checked the wires and connections
So I took the unit to an anuthorized dealer. Eclipse sent out a brand new unit, but that did not fix the issue either.
The speed sense wire is connected to the Purple wire in the ECU. As I said before, I'm sure it is the correct wire. The authorized dealer is telling me that perhaps the speed sense wire is bad.
So my questions are:
Has anyone conencted a multimeter to the speedsense wire? What kind of return should I be looking for? Just voltage on/off under accell/deaccel? Or something else entirely? If anyone has a NAV system that is working, regardless of brand, and is willing to check that wire with a multimeter, I would be very appreciative.
Lastly, does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions of where to troubleshoot? I'm thinking perhaps maybe the wiring harness is bad. I doubt it's the GPS antenna, as the vehicles position on the map does update, and the GPS functions themselves seem to work, just not the voice guidance. I'm wondering if it's possible/likely that the harness and or diode/resister on the speed wire are somehow bad, and that is preventing the speed sense wire from reporting the information correctly..
Thoughts, help? I'm out of ideas.
Thanks in advance!
Toast
08-03-2005, 10:04 PM
#3
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 9,731
That signal is a square wave that varies in frequency with the speed of the vehicle. The wavelenth shortens as speed increases. The tach signal works the same way. So on a normal multimeter you will not get any idea of what is going on. But, if your multimeter has a frequency meter or duty cycle meter you should be able to read it. If that signal were bad, you would most likely notice it in your speedo as well.
Where to check is the trick. You may check with Eclipse to make sure that is the signal they are looking for, but I am pretty certain it would be. Also, are there any other signals that the Eclipse ties into related to motion? Such as the park brake? I know some bypass the park brake circuit so that the monitor works while in motion, so that could also trigger it to think you are not moving. I will let you know if I think of anything else that could help.
Where to check is the trick. You may check with Eclipse to make sure that is the signal they are looking for, but I am pretty certain it would be. Also, are there any other signals that the Eclipse ties into related to motion? Such as the park brake? I know some bypass the park brake circuit so that the monitor works while in motion, so that could also trigger it to think you are not moving. I will let you know if I think of anything else that could help.
08-03-2005, 10:08 PM
#4
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 9,731
Here is the definition of those signals from a tC manual. I had already looked that up for an interface I am trying to build. Sorry so large, but it gets difficult to read if it is smaller.
08-03-2005, 10:25 PM
#5
Senior Member
SL Member
Team ScioNRG
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Burke, VA
Posts: 1,326
Originally Posted by engifineer
That signal is a square wave that varies in frequency with the speed of the vehicle. The wavelenth shortens as speed increases. The tach signal works the same way. So on a normal multimeter you will not get any idea of what is going on. But, if your multimeter has a frequency meter or duty cycle meter you should be able to read it. If that signal were bad, you would most likely notice it in your speedo as well.
Where to check is the trick. You may check with Eclipse to make sure that is the signal they are looking for, but I am pretty certain it would be. Also, are there any other signals that the Eclipse ties into related to motion? Such as the park brake? I know some bypass the park brake circuit so that the monitor works while in motion, so that could also trigger it to think you are not moving. I will let you know if I think of anything else that could help.
Where to check is the trick. You may check with Eclipse to make sure that is the signal they are looking for, but I am pretty certain it would be. Also, are there any other signals that the Eclipse ties into related to motion? Such as the park brake? I know some bypass the park brake circuit so that the monitor works while in motion, so that could also trigger it to think you are not moving. I will let you know if I think of anything else that could help.
I talked to someone else that has the eclipse, according to them, their parking brake is grounded, and voice guidance still works. Guess I'll pick up a good multimeter, and see what the results are.
08-03-2005, 10:57 PM
#6
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 9,731
Originally Posted by toastbox
Originally Posted by engifineer
That signal is a square wave that varies in frequency with the speed of the vehicle. The wavelenth shortens as speed increases. The tach signal works the same way. So on a normal multimeter you will not get any idea of what is going on. But, if your multimeter has a frequency meter or duty cycle meter you should be able to read it. If that signal were bad, you would most likely notice it in your speedo as well.
Where to check is the trick. You may check with Eclipse to make sure that is the signal they are looking for, but I am pretty certain it would be. Also, are there any other signals that the Eclipse ties into related to motion? Such as the park brake? I know some bypass the park brake circuit so that the monitor works while in motion, so that could also trigger it to think you are not moving. I will let you know if I think of anything else that could help.
Where to check is the trick. You may check with Eclipse to make sure that is the signal they are looking for, but I am pretty certain it would be. Also, are there any other signals that the Eclipse ties into related to motion? Such as the park brake? I know some bypass the park brake circuit so that the monitor works while in motion, so that could also trigger it to think you are not moving. I will let you know if I think of anything else that could help.
I talked to someone else that has the eclipse, according to them, their parking brake is grounded, and voice guidance still works. Guess I'll pick up a good multimeter, and see what the results are.
08-09-2005, 03:08 AM
#7
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 253
I'm glad I found this thread again. I did an install of an Eclipse OEM AVN30D which is basically the same unit. I had the same exact problem.
We initially installed it with the parking brake wire grounded. The turn by turn did not work. So I thought maybe it was the parking brake wire because I remembered reading this post. So we ungrounded it and grounded it only when we needed to enter in the destination. Still no workie!
Finally, I decided to find the VSS wire and tapped into it. BINGO, works perfectly!
So I can say with certainty that it's your VSS wire because it was the same symptom as you had and the only thing I changed was hooking up the VSS wire. Now I remember there was this plastic chunk at the end of the wire that had a sticker on it and it said it will not function correctly if you cut that plastic chunk off. It's tempting to do it because the wire is so long but make sure you didn't cut it off.
You'll want to check your tap into the VSS wire. See this post below for an alternate VSS location in the dash of the tC.
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...t=speed+sensor
Good luck!
We initially installed it with the parking brake wire grounded. The turn by turn did not work. So I thought maybe it was the parking brake wire because I remembered reading this post. So we ungrounded it and grounded it only when we needed to enter in the destination. Still no workie!
Finally, I decided to find the VSS wire and tapped into it. BINGO, works perfectly!
So I can say with certainty that it's your VSS wire because it was the same symptom as you had and the only thing I changed was hooking up the VSS wire. Now I remember there was this plastic chunk at the end of the wire that had a sticker on it and it said it will not function correctly if you cut that plastic chunk off. It's tempting to do it because the wire is so long but make sure you didn't cut it off.
You'll want to check your tap into the VSS wire. See this post below for an alternate VSS location in the dash of the tC.
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...t=speed+sensor
Good luck!
08-09-2005, 03:14 AM
#8
Senior Member
SL Member
Team ScioNRG
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Burke, VA
Posts: 1,326
Originally Posted by Malibu Rapper
I'm glad I found this thread again. I did an install of an Eclipse OEM AVN30D which is basically the same unit. I had the same exact problem.
We initially installed it with the parking brake wire grounded. The turn by turn did not work. So I thought maybe it was the parking brake wire because I remembered reading this post. So we ungrounded it and grounded it only when we needed to enter in the destination. Still no workie!
Finally, I decided to find the VSS wire and tapped into it. BINGO, works perfectly!
So I can say with certainty that it's your VSS wire because it was the same symptom as you had and the only thing I changed was hooking up the VSS wire. Now I remember there was this plastic chunk at the end of the wire that had a sticker on it and it said it will not function correctly if you cut that plastic chunk off. It's tempting to do it because the wire is so long but make sure you didn't cut it off.
You'll want to check your tap into the VSS wire. See this post below for an alternate VSS location in the dash of the tC.
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...t=speed+sensor
Good luck!
We initially installed it with the parking brake wire grounded. The turn by turn did not work. So I thought maybe it was the parking brake wire because I remembered reading this post. So we ungrounded it and grounded it only when we needed to enter in the destination. Still no workie!
Finally, I decided to find the VSS wire and tapped into it. BINGO, works perfectly!
So I can say with certainty that it's your VSS wire because it was the same symptom as you had and the only thing I changed was hooking up the VSS wire. Now I remember there was this plastic chunk at the end of the wire that had a sticker on it and it said it will not function correctly if you cut that plastic chunk off. It's tempting to do it because the wire is so long but make sure you didn't cut it off.
You'll want to check your tap into the VSS wire. See this post below for an alternate VSS location in the dash of the tC.
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...t=speed+sensor
Good luck!
I'm down to either the wire harness on the Eclipse is bad, the VSS wire on the car is wacked, or I have a blown fuse some place.
I'm gonna check the fuses first, even though I least expect that to be the issue. I'll check the VSS wire with a multimeter next, and if that checks out okay, I can only assume that there is something wrong with the Eclipse wire harness.
08-09-2005, 03:30 AM
#9
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 253
Try a continuity test on the VSS harness from end to end. You'll have to get your multimeter leads in the right place if that chunky thing holds a diode which I think it does. It should be the positive lead on the chunk end of the wire and then the negative lead to the plastic harness that plugs into the radio.
When you say you're using a T-Tap I assume you're using the type of tap that uses 2 parts. A plastic tap that goes into the VSS wire. Then there is a crimp on spade that goes onto the radio's harness. You plug the spade into the tap and that makes the connection. So there are 2 places to go wrong right there. Taps are fairly notorious for being unreliable and not tapping into wires (hopefully you are using the right sized tap for that gauge of wire). Then the crimp on spade, I've accidentally crimped it onto the wire insulation before.
A faulty VSS wire on the car is the last thing I'd suspect. It's a possiblity, but the taps and the harness (with diode) are suspect at this point. You've replaced your radio so it's probably not it.
When you say you're using a T-Tap I assume you're using the type of tap that uses 2 parts. A plastic tap that goes into the VSS wire. Then there is a crimp on spade that goes onto the radio's harness. You plug the spade into the tap and that makes the connection. So there are 2 places to go wrong right there. Taps are fairly notorious for being unreliable and not tapping into wires (hopefully you are using the right sized tap for that gauge of wire). Then the crimp on spade, I've accidentally crimped it onto the wire insulation before.
A faulty VSS wire on the car is the last thing I'd suspect. It's a possiblity, but the taps and the harness (with diode) are suspect at this point. You've replaced your radio so it's probably not it.
08-09-2005, 03:41 AM
#10
Senior Member
SL Member
Team ScioNRG
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Burke, VA
Posts: 1,326
Originally Posted by Malibu Rapper
Try a continuity test on the VSS harness from end to end. You'll have to get your multimeter leads in the right place if that chunky thing holds a diode which I think it does. It should be the positive lead on the chunk end of the wire and then the negative lead to the plastic harness that plugs into the radio.
When you say you're using a T-Tap I assume you're using the type of tap that uses 2 parts. A plastic tap that goes into the VSS wire. Then there is a crimp on spade that goes onto the radio's harness. You plug the spade into the tap and that makes the connection. So there are 2 places to go wrong right there. Taps are fairly notorious for being unreliable and not tapping into wires (hopefully you are using the right sized tap for that gauge of wire). Then the crimp on spade, I've accidentally crimped it onto the wire insulation before.
A faulty VSS wire on the car is the last thing I'd suspect. It's a possiblity, but the taps and the harness (with diode) are suspect at this point. You've replaced your radio so it's probably not it.
When you say you're using a T-Tap I assume you're using the type of tap that uses 2 parts. A plastic tap that goes into the VSS wire. Then there is a crimp on spade that goes onto the radio's harness. You plug the spade into the tap and that makes the connection. So there are 2 places to go wrong right there. Taps are fairly notorious for being unreliable and not tapping into wires (hopefully you are using the right sized tap for that gauge of wire). Then the crimp on spade, I've accidentally crimped it onto the wire insulation before.
A faulty VSS wire on the car is the last thing I'd suspect. It's a possiblity, but the taps and the harness (with diode) are suspect at this point. You've replaced your radio so it's probably not it.
you are correct about the T taps, that is exactly what I am using. What would you recommend, in place of them, if anything? I should be able to test the t-taps by first testing the VSS wire with a multimeter in duty cycle mode, and then testing the speed wire on the elcipse behind the t-tap, correct? If I get a signal on the VSS wire, but not after the tap, that should tell me that either the tap is bad, or the Eclipse wire harness is bad, correct?
08-09-2005, 06:36 AM
#11
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 253
T-taps while unreliable are an installer's dream. The biggest mistake I usually find when people use them is using the wrong size tap for the gauge of the wire. The thicker gauge around 14-16 gauge you can use the blue ones. Dark red are some of the smallest ones. I'd have to look at the wire to get a sense of what color tap to use. It's hard to beat the convenience of a tap. The most reliable connection is a solder but it's tedious and time consuming. The problem with using a tap that is too large is that it will not correctly splice through the jacket on the wire. Too small and it will break some of the strands.
The first thing I would do is the continuity test on the eclipse harness. Easy test, just put your multi-meter into continuity test or resistance mode. Because of the diode, you'll have to make sure you have the right ends hooked up. This should verify the spade connection for the tap as well.
As for the tap on the VSS wire, I usually remove the tap and retap it. But when the tap is removed, you can see if it actually sliced through the jacket correctly and hopefully on both sides of the wire.
The first thing I would do is the continuity test on the eclipse harness. Easy test, just put your multi-meter into continuity test or resistance mode. Because of the diode, you'll have to make sure you have the right ends hooked up. This should verify the spade connection for the tap as well.
As for the tap on the VSS wire, I usually remove the tap and retap it. But when the tap is removed, you can see if it actually sliced through the jacket correctly and hopefully on both sides of the wire.
08-17-2005, 04:44 AM
#12
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 253
I just got back from the garage after fussing with my Viper remote start alarm installation for about 2 hours. I couldn't figure out why it kept shutting down. When I narrowed it down to the tach wire, I did an end to end test on the viper harness to my tapping spade. No voltage.
I pulled the plastic cover off of the spade connector and saw the strands on the wire touching the metal spade. Didn't look too bad. But then I measured it again and it was not conducting still. Well, I look closer at the spade and saw that the part where it was crimped was over the jacket of the wire. I used a pink connector which is a small one since the wire is small but the wire was small enough to slip into the sleeve of the spade. So I grab another pink spade and this time carefully crimped it onto the wire. I test for voltage and bingo, it works.
I've been doing installs for years and I still make rookie mistakes like this once in a long while. Just thought I'd update this thread with that tidbit of info to emphasize the importance of making the right connections.
I pulled the plastic cover off of the spade connector and saw the strands on the wire touching the metal spade. Didn't look too bad. But then I measured it again and it was not conducting still. Well, I look closer at the spade and saw that the part where it was crimped was over the jacket of the wire. I used a pink connector which is a small one since the wire is small but the wire was small enough to slip into the sleeve of the spade. So I grab another pink spade and this time carefully crimped it onto the wire. I test for voltage and bingo, it works.
I've been doing installs for years and I still make rookie mistakes like this once in a long while. Just thought I'd update this thread with that tidbit of info to emphasize the importance of making the right connections.
08-17-2005, 11:44 AM
#13
Senior Member
SL Member
Team ScioNRG
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Burke, VA
Posts: 1,326
I finally used a multimeter on the wire last night. I used the positive wire a the diode end, and the negative at the harness/plug end. I never got any kind of change in reading, so I swapped polarity. Same result. I then put the positive just in back of the diode (making sure I had good connectivity), and the neg at the harness end. I came up with short on that reading, but I'm wondering if it detected that due to the positive lead not being at an "end"?
Thoughts?
I'm gonna get some new t taps tonight, if that doesn't do it, I'm calling elcipse myself and getting a new wire harness for the eclipse, and I'll friggin solder a lead wire onto the Vss wire from the ECU. If that doesn't do it, I'm selling the damn thing.
Thoughts?
I'm gonna get some new t taps tonight, if that doesn't do it, I'm calling elcipse myself and getting a new wire harness for the eclipse, and I'll friggin solder a lead wire onto the Vss wire from the ECU. If that doesn't do it, I'm selling the damn thing.
08-17-2005, 04:23 PM
#14
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 9,731
Originally Posted by toastbox
I finally used a multimeter on the wire last night. I used the positive wire a the diode end, and the negative at the harness/plug end. I never got any kind of change in reading, so I swapped polarity. Same result. I then put the positive just in back of the diode (making sure I had good connectivity), and the neg at the harness end. I came up with short on that reading, but I'm wondering if it detected that due to the positive lead not being at an "end"?
Thoughts?
I'm gonna get some new t taps tonight, if that doesn't do it, I'm calling elcipse myself and getting a new wire harness for the eclipse, and I'll friggin solder a lead wire onto the Vss wire from the ECU. If that doesn't do it, I'm selling the damn thing.
Thoughts?
I'm gonna get some new t taps tonight, if that doesn't do it, I'm calling elcipse myself and getting a new wire harness for the eclipse, and I'll friggin solder a lead wire onto the Vss wire from the ECU. If that doesn't do it, I'm selling the damn thing.
08-17-2005, 04:39 PM
#15
Senior Member
SL Member
Team ScioNRG
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Burke, VA
Posts: 1,326
Originally Posted by engifineer
Keep in mind that a straight continuity reading will not read good through a diode. You want to be set on the diode mode of the multimeter, which will display a voltage drop across it (most likely around .7V for a standard diode). So if your meter has a continuity only setting with a beeper, it will not go off when reading through the diode itself. Just one more thing to consider
[]y---------------------------------------x--[]---------[=]
[harness-plug] (y) (X) [diode] [T-tap spade]
Note that y was directly against the harness plug, and x was as close as I could get to the diode.
Lets try this...rather than worrying about the eclipse wire harness, I'm going to see if I can eliminate the spade/t-tap. Does anyone know what size wires are on a car stereo? I know the elcipse are the same size as the stock unit, but I don't know off hand what size that is. I want to make sure I have the correct size t-tap for that wire.
01-18-2006, 01:02 PM
#18
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 30
i just noticed one thing.. i plugged it in correctly because when I go into Info -> Settings, the Speed Pulse on the head unit display goes up with the speedometer. I drove for about 40 miles (an hour), and the thing still says Pulse Study: Studying. I heard it's only supposed to take 10 minutes.. Anyone have similar experiences?
01-18-2006, 01:13 PM
#19
Senior Member
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 9,731
^^ HEre is a bit more info that I pm'd you and thought I would share here as well. If you call Eclipse this may help them figure out why it cant sync correctly.
The VSS signal on the tC is a square wave that varies in frequency with vehicle speed. It is a 0 - 5V signal. It sounds like the unit is not seeing the signal within the range it is expecting. You may want to look through the doco for the head unit or call them to find out what it is expecting. I believe it should output at approximately 17HZ at 12mph(20 kmh). This may help them troubleshoot why you are having the issue. Let me know if you are still having issues and I can check later at home for the pin you need to connect to on the ECU. Hope this helps.
The VSS signal on the tC is a square wave that varies in frequency with vehicle speed. It is a 0 - 5V signal. It sounds like the unit is not seeing the signal within the range it is expecting. You may want to look through the doco for the head unit or call them to find out what it is expecting. I believe it should output at approximately 17HZ at 12mph(20 kmh). This may help them troubleshoot why you are having the issue. Let me know if you are still having issues and I can check later at home for the pin you need to connect to on the ECU. Hope this helps.
01-18-2006, 02:00 PM
#20
Senior Member
SL Member
Team ScioNRG
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Burke, VA
Posts: 1,326
^^ Hey Dave,
Thanks alot for the info.
One of the reason's I haven't spent too much time on this is that I'm starting to reach the limits of my knowledge in circuitry. I want to make sure I've done a proper test on the wire harness before I call Eclipse. It's been a while since I last checked that, so I want to re do it, and make sure I'm not missing anything. If I recall correctly, the last time I did it, I couldn't get any kind of reading on the harness at all.
I'm gonna be on vacation for the next week, but when I get back, if it's okay with you, I'll pm you for you number, maybe you can walk me through a couple of questions I have.
Thanks alot for the info.
One of the reason's I haven't spent too much time on this is that I'm starting to reach the limits of my knowledge in circuitry. I want to make sure I've done a proper test on the wire harness before I call Eclipse. It's been a while since I last checked that, so I want to re do it, and make sure I'm not missing anything. If I recall correctly, the last time I did it, I couldn't get any kind of reading on the harness at all.
I'm gonna be on vacation for the next week, but when I get back, if it's okay with you, I'll pm you for you number, maybe you can walk me through a couple of questions I have.