High output alternator for battery drain
11-12-2008, 08:45 PM
#1
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High output alternator for battery drain
Does anyone make one to fit an xB? The system I'm running isn't especially high powered (500W sub amp, 300W mid, 20W display and 75W computer) but has a constant drain over time.
My problem is that I have a Mac mini computer installed, and it is wired up to go into standby when the car is off. This causes a small current draw (4-6W) but it is constant while the car is not running. I have it like this so the computer won't have to reboot every time I get in the car. Having to refind the song you're listening to in an iTunes library of 60 Gb can get annoying if it reboots every time. This is coupled with a short commute, about 15 minutes, so the draw time far exceeds the charge time, ending up killing my battery after about 3 weeks.
To counter this, I'm charging the battery every weekend on a 2 amp trickle charger. Anyone know of a higher output alternator that could keep the batery full without the need for external recharge. It is also a stock battery. I could replace it with a higher capacity one, but that would just push out the time between external recharge needed and would still drain it down eventually.
My problem is that I have a Mac mini computer installed, and it is wired up to go into standby when the car is off. This causes a small current draw (4-6W) but it is constant while the car is not running. I have it like this so the computer won't have to reboot every time I get in the car. Having to refind the song you're listening to in an iTunes library of 60 Gb can get annoying if it reboots every time. This is coupled with a short commute, about 15 minutes, so the draw time far exceeds the charge time, ending up killing my battery after about 3 weeks.
To counter this, I'm charging the battery every weekend on a 2 amp trickle charger. Anyone know of a higher output alternator that could keep the batery full without the need for external recharge. It is also a stock battery. I could replace it with a higher capacity one, but that would just push out the time between external recharge needed and would still drain it down eventually.
11-12-2008, 09:12 PM
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Cap won't solve the problem. The capacitor needs to charge like everything else, and once the computer discharges it the battery will be drawn down again. I need a faster charge system for the vehicle. Either that, or I'll have to continue treating it like a plug-in hybrid. Maybe it would be easier to install a charge system onboard and mount an outlet on the bumper.
11-12-2008, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sykodelic
imo use a capacitor
A larger battery would help you out by expanding the amount of current that your system has to draw from. Unfortunately, it isn't going to completely resolve your issue because you're still drawing current without a replenishing charge.
Have you looked into a better intelligent power supply for your minimac car PC? There are some that monitor the voltage of the charging system and will power down the PC when the system starts to drop below 11V. 11V should still be sufficient to start the car.
If you're really looking for a HO alternator, you probably ought to give American Power a call.
http://www.americanpowerinc.com/
These guys will make an alternator that will more than suit your needs.
11-13-2008, 05:46 PM
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The only thing an HO alternator will do for you in this scenario is to charge your dead battery faster than a stock alternator would.
The best solution here would be to add a second battery for the system. You'd want to use a solenoid, wired so that the 2 batteries are only paralleled when the car is running. When the key is off, only the second battery would be connected to the system, so you won't drain the car's battery, but they'll both charge when it's running. People have been using such setups for years, for this exact purpose, so it's a proven solution for your issue.
The best solution here would be to add a second battery for the system. You'd want to use a solenoid, wired so that the 2 batteries are only paralleled when the car is running. When the key is off, only the second battery would be connected to the system, so you won't drain the car's battery, but they'll both charge when it's running. People have been using such setups for years, for this exact purpose, so it's a proven solution for your issue.
11-16-2008, 02:51 AM
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i'd get an Iraggi alternator... 90amp idle, 200amp max.
PM me for his contact. his alternators are rebuilt stock alternators to my knowledge so they are no all that big compared to others and are VERY reliable.
PM me for his contact. his alternators are rebuilt stock alternators to my knowledge so they are no all that big compared to others and are VERY reliable.
11-17-2008, 12:23 AM
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Winter, nice. I've got a spare alternator too if they need a core, came with my second engine 
Yeah, I'm seriously thinking about the second battery thing as well. My father in law brought that up since he is a building contractor and has had multiple work trucks wired with secondary power for tools, etc either off of generator or a second battery and an A/C inverter. It's going to come down to whatever's cheapest. The spare battery would need to go under the passenger seat, there's no room anywhere else.
My PC power supply DOES have an auto-shutdown feature for under voltage, but it may be programmable via jumper and I may have it set down too low. The battery doesn't go dead-dead, I can still unlock the car, have interior lighting and the clock doesn't get reset. It just doesn't have the juice to start up.
Yeah, I'm seriously thinking about the second battery thing as well. My father in law brought that up since he is a building contractor and has had multiple work trucks wired with secondary power for tools, etc either off of generator or a second battery and an A/C inverter. It's going to come down to whatever's cheapest. The spare battery would need to go under the passenger seat, there's no room anywhere else.
My PC power supply DOES have an auto-shutdown feature for under voltage, but it may be programmable via jumper and I may have it set down too low. The battery doesn't go dead-dead, I can still unlock the car, have interior lighting and the clock doesn't get reset. It just doesn't have the juice to start up.
11-17-2008, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by vettereddie
Winter, nice. I've got a spare alternator too if they need a core, came with my second engine The idea for the HO alternator is that currently with my short drive to work there is not enough time to recharge what was lost from the car sitting with the Mac in sleep. If the alternator could charge faster, it could actually top off the battery on the drive and it wouldn't slowly get drained, i.e. it reduces charge time.
I'm seriously thinking about the second battery thing as well. My father in law brought that up since he is a building contractor and has had multiple work trucks wired with secondary power for tools, etc either off of generator or a second battery and an A/C inverter. It's going to come down to whatever's cheapest. The spare battery would need to go under the passenger seat, there's no room anywhere else.
My PC power supply DOES have an auto-shutdown feature for under voltage, but it may be programmable via jumper and I may have it set down too low. The battery doesn't go dead-dead, I can still unlock the car, have interior lighting and the clock doesn't get reset. It just doesn't have the juice to start up.
The idea for the HO alternator is that currently with my short drive to work there is not enough time to recharge what was lost from the car sitting with the Mac in sleep. If the alternator could charge faster, it could actually top off the battery on the drive and it wouldn't slowly get drained, i.e. it reduces charge time.I'm seriously thinking about the second battery thing as well. My father in law brought that up since he is a building contractor and has had multiple work trucks wired with secondary power for tools, etc either off of generator or a second battery and an A/C inverter. It's going to come down to whatever's cheapest. The spare battery would need to go under the passenger seat, there's no room anywhere else.
My PC power supply DOES have an auto-shutdown feature for under voltage, but it may be programmable via jumper and I may have it set down too low. The battery doesn't go dead-dead, I can still unlock the car, have interior lighting and the clock doesn't get reset. It just doesn't have the juice to start up.
11-17-2008, 01:33 AM
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i've been working on an alternative fuels project on top of a new engine setup which may end up making it so that i will need two alternators.
for the amount of current draw you are / are going to be pulling, you'll need some extra juice.
when it comes to audio, you deal with what's known as the cresting factor in music. this is where the system will be pulling ALOT of power at some points and hardly any at all on others. thats where a capacitor or extra battery come in to play when your lights start dimming. when they dim, that's signs of extreme cresting points in your system's current draw, for example, heavy bass.
you're not only going to deal with heavy bass, but also a PC power supply which depending on what you're doing with it, will always be pulling the same current draw if the use is continuous such as ECU monitoring and such. if it's anything like that, i highly doubt you'll be pulling it's full power output at anytime unless you are doing some VERY demanding applications like gaming.
as for the rest of the system. because it's a good amount of continuous pulling electronics, it would be wise to use an upgrade alternator. 800watt audio output isn't a problem, i would use a Kinetik Audio HC600 for a power stiffener rather then a capacitor. it's a dry cell battery that's equal too roughly 100 fared caps wired all together. but if you're going for an extra 500+watt of continuous currant draw, you WILL need an upgrade alternator.
you're situation is a bit iffy on both sides but i would get the alternator ahead of time before it comes down to a situation of you wanting more but don't have the alternator to power it yet kind of thing...
and like i mentioned, i recommend an iraggi alternator, it's reliable as hell but it'll cost yeah roughly $400 plus shipping, no including the wiring you may need to do.
for the amount of current draw you are / are going to be pulling, you'll need some extra juice.
when it comes to audio, you deal with what's known as the cresting factor in music. this is where the system will be pulling ALOT of power at some points and hardly any at all on others. thats where a capacitor or extra battery come in to play when your lights start dimming. when they dim, that's signs of extreme cresting points in your system's current draw, for example, heavy bass.
you're not only going to deal with heavy bass, but also a PC power supply which depending on what you're doing with it, will always be pulling the same current draw if the use is continuous such as ECU monitoring and such. if it's anything like that, i highly doubt you'll be pulling it's full power output at anytime unless you are doing some VERY demanding applications like gaming.
as for the rest of the system. because it's a good amount of continuous pulling electronics, it would be wise to use an upgrade alternator. 800watt audio output isn't a problem, i would use a Kinetik Audio HC600 for a power stiffener rather then a capacitor. it's a dry cell battery that's equal too roughly 100 fared caps wired all together. but if you're going for an extra 500+watt of continuous currant draw, you WILL need an upgrade alternator.
you're situation is a bit iffy on both sides but i would get the alternator ahead of time before it comes down to a situation of you wanting more but don't have the alternator to power it yet kind of thing...
and like i mentioned, i recommend an iraggi alternator, it's reliable as hell but it'll cost yeah roughly $400 plus shipping, no including the wiring you may need to do.
11-17-2008, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Winter
when it comes to audio, you deal with what's known as the cresting factor in music. this is where the system will be pulling ALOT of power at some points and hardly any at all on others. thats where a capacitor or extra battery come in to play when your lights start dimming. when they dim, that's signs of extreme cresting points in your system's current draw, for example, heavy bass.
11-17-2008, 08:38 PM
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True, but my assumption is that my charge cycle acts as so:
Car is on, can charge X watts during the drive to / from work daily.
Car is off, and draws Y watts over the time when the car is off over 24 hours.
Right now, I think Y > X, so over time the battery loses a charge. This assumes that the battery is not fully recharged during driving times.
If I can get X < Y via a larger alternator, then the battery should fully recharge during driving periods and won't go dead. Adding a second battery will simply prolong the time before the system goes dead, or if independant from the starting circuit will completely shut down the computer more frequently.
If my assumption is false, and the battery is being fully charged during driving periods, then I need to instead increase total storage capacity and the second battery should take care of it. Anyone know how to test battery capacity? A voltage reading will NOT do the trick.
Car is on, can charge X watts during the drive to / from work daily.
Car is off, and draws Y watts over the time when the car is off over 24 hours.
Right now, I think Y > X, so over time the battery loses a charge. This assumes that the battery is not fully recharged during driving times.
If I can get X < Y via a larger alternator, then the battery should fully recharge during driving periods and won't go dead. Adding a second battery will simply prolong the time before the system goes dead, or if independant from the starting circuit will completely shut down the computer more frequently.
If my assumption is false, and the battery is being fully charged during driving periods, then I need to instead increase total storage capacity and the second battery should take care of it. Anyone know how to test battery capacity? A voltage reading will NOT do the trick.
11-18-2008, 12:02 AM
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if it's fast charge you want, hit up Kinetik Audio again for their dry cells. they can be fully charged while still under load with 15-20 minutes of drive time. you can also just upgrade to a larger battery size.
also, to take care of some of these issues ASAP, put a complete kill switch for everything, or have it laced to your accessories setup on your ignition and you want have to worry about over night / down time discharge.
also, to take care of some of these issues ASAP, put a complete kill switch for everything, or have it laced to your accessories setup on your ignition and you want have to worry about over night / down time discharge.
12-11-2008, 07:13 PM
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save yourself time, money, and stress.
Kinetik HC800 is enough power. If you want to get a Kinetik for under the hood get a HC1400 and that is all ya need. I am going to have a total of 2000w just to my subs and i only getting a HC1400 and a HC800. your stock alternater is 90A btw.
Kinetik HC800 is enough power. If you want to get a Kinetik for under the hood get a HC1400 and that is all ya need. I am going to have a total of 2000w just to my subs and i only getting a HC1400 and a HC800. your stock alternater is 90A btw.
12-13-2008, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Skitzo_xa
save yourself time, money, and stress.
Kinetik HC800 is enough power. If you want to get a Kinetik for under the hood get a HC1400 and that is all ya need. I am going to have a total of 2000w just to my subs and i only getting a HC1400 and a HC800. your stock alternater is 90A btw.
Kinetik HC800 is enough power. If you want to get a Kinetik for under the hood get a HC1400 and that is all ya need. I am going to have a total of 2000w just to my subs and i only getting a HC1400 and a HC800. your stock alternater is 90A btw.
90amp max which is at max rpm capability.
second, his system is based on a continuous draw setup where as an audio setup like yours is not. you deal with the cresting factor of music making your power draw uneven and inconsistent. for him, many of the items he named off are continuous consistent power draw items.
for example, you may have a 2,000watt sub setup but the likely hood of you actually throwing 2,000watt them within any point of their life span is going to be incredibly rare due to the cresting factor of music. on average you will only be pulling around 30-60% the amount that you may think they are. the more bass type music like drum&bass, fast techno and heavy metal you play, the more you are drawing due to the type of music it is.
for him, if he were to have 2,000watt of continuous power draw, that would be a considerably huge power demand using all that power for 100% of the time. an upgrade battery will not fix this, upgrading your battery is like adding a butt load of capacitors to your system, that's all it's really good for.
also, it's not wise to use any of the Kinetik batteries in place of the stock battery. if you are going to replace the stock battery, replace it with a gel cell like Optima. Kinetik's batteries are dry cell batteries and will discharge their energy VERY quickly. so if you have anything being powered while the vehicle is turned off, you WILL come to a dead battery in a matter of hours where as the gel cell will keep a similar charge to that of the factory wet cell.
wet cell - decent cold crank and hourly output with extreme reliability for lasting a long time without issue. slow charge, slow discharge with decent charge reliability.
gel cell - higher cold crank than wet cell and higher hourly output with high to early extreme reliability for lasting a long time without issue. fast charge, medium to slow discharge with great charging reliability. most gel cells are fully sealed and can be mounted in any position.
dry cell - very high cold crank over all and very high hourly output with medium reliability for long term power draw or as main battery. VERY fast charge rate, fast discharge rate with great charging reliability. these act as super capacitors being a mix of powerful capacitors and gel cell batteries. they use a very tightly packed dry acid form cell packs for their power. because of this, they have quick and powerful response but disburse their energy very quickly at high volumes. good for voltage buffering and power drain buffering or auxiliary use. dry cell allows these type of batteries to be mounted in any position. these type of batteries are bad for overly cranking an engine... for example having troubles starting the car from running out of fuel or what have you that requires you to crank the starter more then 3 times for longer then 4-5 seconds, battery will drain VERY quickly.
12-13-2008, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Sciond
I am gonna use a motorcycle battery....and hopefully save my alternator....I run about 750w true rms
12-13-2008, 05:46 AM
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Winter,
Can you explain the Ah rating on batteries. Is this the rating that gives you the reserve capacity of the battyer (wet, gel or dry? Also can you go into more detail wityou said that with the Kinetics "you WILL come to a dead battery in a matter of hours"? If you go based off the Ah specs is what you said still true?
Can you explain the Ah rating on batteries. Is this the rating that gives you the reserve capacity of the battyer (wet, gel or dry? Also can you go into more detail wityou said that with the Kinetics "you WILL come to a dead battery in a matter of hours"? If you go based off the Ah specs is what you said still true?
12-13-2008, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Winter
also, it's not wise to use any of the Kinetik batteries in place of the stock battery. if you are going to replace the stock battery, replace it with a gel cell like Optima. Kinetik's batteries are dry cell batteries and will discharge their energy VERY quickly. so if you have anything being powered while the vehicle is turned off, you WILL come to a dead battery in a matter of hours where as the gel cell will keep a similar charge to that of the factory wet cell.
Kinetik HC1400
Ah 60
AMPS 1500 Continious!!!
Optima Redtop
Ah 60
CCA 720
CA 910
STRAIGHT FROM KINETIK
"-Mixing Different Battery Technologies
Kinetik Power Cells are compatible with most standard 12 volt charging systems and battery technologies. We do however advise using Kinetik Power Cells exclusively throughout the vehicle for maximum voltage, performance and longevity of aftermarket electronics as well as the Power cells. This will minimize self discharging of the power storage devices in the vehicle while not in use also. Kinetik Power Cells have a very low self discharge rate much lower than that of a standard ‘wet cell’ car battery. When different types of power storage devices (batteries or Power Cells) are used in parallel in an electrical system, current will have a tendency to flow between storage devices unnecessarily resulting in heat build up and loss of power where it is needed most. When Kinetik Power Cells are used throughout the install, current will flow directly from the Power Cells to the load in a balanced manner minimizing ‘fighting’ between unlike storage devices."
When weere Optima batteries used in a SPL car to make 180.5db?
Optima is $160-$180 depending where u go, a HC1400 is $200-350
I think i will always pay the extra money for a battery that will last me way longer.
I sell both Optima and Kinetik and I will tell someone to buy a Kinetik everytime. I know from exerience and all my customers and friends know what i what, If your gonna dick around and buy 50 thousand batterys in your lifetime then get the Optima, if you want a battery that will out live you then get a Kinetik.
Using a Optima is like you wearing diapers, using a Kinetik is like never making in your pants again!