Monroe Shocks..
08-08-2006, 02:30 AM
#61
As I said earlier somewhere in one of the many threads on this, the SensaTracs have a variable damping factor.
In the center of their range (at rest at NORMAL ride height with the 5987s), the shocks have a much lower damping factor, and therefore are fairly easy to compress/expand for small quick movements.
As the shocks get farther away from their normal extension, the damping gets rapidly tighter, essentially mimicking the stiffness of the stock shocks.
If you have a lowered suspension, the ride height of your xB is no longer in the center of the 'normal' range of the SensaTracs, and you are defeating the engineering that went into the variable valving of the shock (the SensaTrac 'grooves').
So, the 5987s are ideal for an xB at OEM suspension height, but do not perform correctly if the vehicle has been lowered so that the shock is no longer 'centered' in it's operating range.
The shorter 5870s are not designed for this particular suspension, but are a good compromise shock for use when lowered - a 'mod' shock for a 'mod' suspension.
With a 1 1/2 - 2 inch drop, the shorter, heavier shock is a much closer match to the dynamics of the modified suspension, and will tend to match it's 'center' operating range to the suspension's better than the longer 5987 shock, which will alredy be in it's 'stiff' mode.
I hope that explanation helps explain why, especially with a variable damping shock, the shock only works right if the current ride height of the vehicle puts the shock in the middle of its 'soft' range while at rest.
In the center of their range (at rest at NORMAL ride height with the 5987s), the shocks have a much lower damping factor, and therefore are fairly easy to compress/expand for small quick movements.
As the shocks get farther away from their normal extension, the damping gets rapidly tighter, essentially mimicking the stiffness of the stock shocks.
If you have a lowered suspension, the ride height of your xB is no longer in the center of the 'normal' range of the SensaTracs, and you are defeating the engineering that went into the variable valving of the shock (the SensaTrac 'grooves').
So, the 5987s are ideal for an xB at OEM suspension height, but do not perform correctly if the vehicle has been lowered so that the shock is no longer 'centered' in it's operating range.
The shorter 5870s are not designed for this particular suspension, but are a good compromise shock for use when lowered - a 'mod' shock for a 'mod' suspension.
With a 1 1/2 - 2 inch drop, the shorter, heavier shock is a much closer match to the dynamics of the modified suspension, and will tend to match it's 'center' operating range to the suspension's better than the longer 5987 shock, which will alredy be in it's 'stiff' mode.
I hope that explanation helps explain why, especially with a variable damping shock, the shock only works right if the current ride height of the vehicle puts the shock in the middle of its 'soft' range while at rest.
08-08-2006, 04:05 AM
#62
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I just lowered mine wensday and I realized the front's were Tokico I didnt get a close look at the rears,but why would you change them for monroes? anyways I dont know if just the RS3's come with them or all xB's come with these shocks but so far I love the ride and I have eibach sportline's 2" drop Looks great
Eddie
Eddie
08-08-2006, 09:26 PM
#63
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Tomas ... thanks so much for the helpful information. I swear i studdied and reviewed over and over again as to which to get for the rear of a dropped box, and now i know. Its the 5870.
Now its back to the drawing board to get these and getem installed before my trip to Ohio in a couple of weeks. Thanks everyeone.
Now its back to the drawing board to get these and getem installed before my trip to Ohio in a couple of weeks. Thanks everyeone.
08-13-2006, 09:22 PM
#64
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 21
I've replaced my shocks and struts with monroes. I love the improved ride and handling. It's a little to low in the front with the tanbe dF210's and 19's but I don't mind it looks and handles great. I respect the people on this board and there knowledge my car has come a long way in the past year. Thank You all.
08-15-2006, 12:59 AM
#65
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Re: rear end clunk with monroes
Originally Posted by tonyg
I installed the Monroes all around with TRD springs. I had the rear end clunk too over some bumps. After checking with some engineers I found the cause is the shock is designed for full travel only to properly damp. With the lowered springs, it "thinks" it is hitting a bump all the time and firms up. The Monroes seem to be a fine and economical replacement for non-lowered cars, but not a good fit even with the slight drop the TRD's provides.
Also, you should be aware that the Monroe front strus have a lower spring mount than stock so you will have a slight rake in the car when installed.
After 300 miles of bouncy ride and rattles, I replaced the Monroes with Koni's all around. A world of difference. Guys, don't waste your money like I did. If your car is lowered buy shocks designed for the car, don't retrofit from the Echo. Remember the Echo is a much lighter car. It's not Monroes fault that the Echo shocks are not a good fit for our lowered box.
Also, you should be aware that the Monroe front strus have a lower spring mount than stock so you will have a slight rake in the car when installed.
After 300 miles of bouncy ride and rattles, I replaced the Monroes with Koni's all around. A world of difference. Guys, don't waste your money like I did. If your car is lowered buy shocks designed for the car, don't retrofit from the Echo. Remember the Echo is a much lighter car. It's not Monroes fault that the Echo shocks are not a good fit for our lowered box.
Originally Posted by TXboxdriver
i jumped on the SensaTrac bandwagon too
been running them in the rear only for about 3 months
mind you...my box has 54000+ miles on it now
original front struts with Tein S-techs
#5987's from Napa with Tein S-techs
the combination of the worn out fronts and squishy Napa's is much nicer on the highway......but slightly more roll
i have developed a slight clunking noise very occasionally from the rear suspenision
it only happens when the rear beam is articulated oddly or extremely (diagonal over large speed bump..)
ill eventually get the noise....but the highway ride is luxurious.....and still kinda sporty
these shocks and lotsa panel dampning is a nice ride indeed!!
been running them in the rear only for about 3 months
mind you...my box has 54000+ miles on it now
original front struts with Tein S-techs
#5987's from Napa with Tein S-techs
the combination of the worn out fronts and squishy Napa's is much nicer on the highway......but slightly more roll
i have developed a slight clunking noise very occasionally from the rear suspenision
it only happens when the rear beam is articulated oddly or extremely (diagonal over large speed bump..)
ill eventually get the noise....but the highway ride is luxurious.....and still kinda sporty
these shocks and lotsa panel dampning is a nice ride indeed!!
08-15-2006, 12:59 AM
#66
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Re: rear end clunk with monroes
Originally Posted by tonyg
I installed the Monroes all around with TRD springs. I had the rear end clunk too over some bumps. After checking with some engineers I found the cause is the shock is designed for full travel only to properly damp. With the lowered springs, it "thinks" it is hitting a bump all the time and firms up. The Monroes seem to be a fine and economical replacement for non-lowered cars, but not a good fit even with the slight drop the TRD's provides.
Also, you should be aware that the Monroe front strus have a lower spring mount than stock so you will have a slight rake in the car when installed.
After 300 miles of bouncy ride and rattles, I replaced the Monroes with Koni's all around. A world of difference. Guys, don't waste your money like I did. If your car is lowered buy shocks designed for the car, don't retrofit from the Echo. Remember the Echo is a much lighter car. It's not Monroes fault that the Echo shocks are not a good fit for our lowered box.
Also, you should be aware that the Monroe front strus have a lower spring mount than stock so you will have a slight rake in the car when installed.
After 300 miles of bouncy ride and rattles, I replaced the Monroes with Koni's all around. A world of difference. Guys, don't waste your money like I did. If your car is lowered buy shocks designed for the car, don't retrofit from the Echo. Remember the Echo is a much lighter car. It's not Monroes fault that the Echo shocks are not a good fit for our lowered box.
Originally Posted by TXboxdriver
i jumped on the SensaTrac bandwagon too
been running them in the rear only for about 3 months
mind you...my box has 54000+ miles on it now
original front struts with Tein S-techs
#5987's from Napa with Tein S-techs
the combination of the worn out fronts and squishy Napa's is much nicer on the highway......but slightly more roll
i have developed a slight clunking noise very occasionally from the rear suspenision
it only happens when the rear beam is articulated oddly or extremely (diagonal over large speed bump..)
ill eventually get the noise....but the highway ride is luxurious.....and still kinda sporty
these shocks and lotsa panel dampning is a nice ride indeed!!
been running them in the rear only for about 3 months
mind you...my box has 54000+ miles on it now
original front struts with Tein S-techs
#5987's from Napa with Tein S-techs
the combination of the worn out fronts and squishy Napa's is much nicer on the highway......but slightly more roll
i have developed a slight clunking noise very occasionally from the rear suspenision
it only happens when the rear beam is articulated oddly or extremely (diagonal over large speed bump..)
ill eventually get the noise....but the highway ride is luxurious.....and still kinda sporty
these shocks and lotsa panel dampning is a nice ride indeed!!
08-18-2006, 10:20 PM
#67
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OK .. got the 5870s installed, finally. Please learn from my mistake .... DO NOT USE THE FACTORY NUT ON THE MONROE SHOCK! I did this by mistake as i was tired and hot. I wasnt paying attention and installed the metric nut on the SAE thread. It went on well for the first half, then stripped. I had to cut the shock at the thread to get it out. Now i have a shock with half a thread, basically $33 of trash. I was lucky to find a store who had one left in stock. These are hard to come by here in South Jersey. I had one Napa store tell me that no stores nor their regional warehouse had them in stock. I did find a mom and pop store who got me one in a matter of hours. Took minutes to install. 14MM on top .. 18MM on bottom. Cordless impact wrench took off the bottom nuts real quick.
I installed both today. One was newer then the other. The newer doenst have a directional rubber washer on the bottom. The older one does. Neither have a metal insert to prevent squishing the bottom rubber washer. The tops are relatievly easy to get on. Real easy to install. With my Progress springs i didnt notice any segnificant gains on my daily route home, until i crossed a set of rail road tracks. My new shocks went right over them with out feeling a thing. Very nice. Although, now that the rear is softer, i rub a lot easier on my tires. I did have to remove one of my 3MM spacers, well see if that helps. I think i noticed a bit MORE body roll in the rear too, but im not sure as i only have 10 miles on the new shocks. Ill repost in a month or so.
Here is what im running suspension/wheel wise.
Progress Springs
Progress Rear Sway Bar
10 MM O.T.G. shims
BSA 259s 17x7 w/ 40MM offset.
215/45R17 Yokohama Avid H4S
I installed both today. One was newer then the other. The newer doenst have a directional rubber washer on the bottom. The older one does. Neither have a metal insert to prevent squishing the bottom rubber washer. The tops are relatievly easy to get on. Real easy to install. With my Progress springs i didnt notice any segnificant gains on my daily route home, until i crossed a set of rail road tracks. My new shocks went right over them with out feeling a thing. Very nice. Although, now that the rear is softer, i rub a lot easier on my tires. I did have to remove one of my 3MM spacers, well see if that helps. I think i noticed a bit MORE body roll in the rear too, but im not sure as i only have 10 miles on the new shocks. Ill repost in a month or so.
Here is what im running suspension/wheel wise.
Progress Springs
Progress Rear Sway Bar
10 MM O.T.G. shims
BSA 259s 17x7 w/ 40MM offset.
215/45R17 Yokohama Avid H4S
08-19-2006, 05:09 AM
#69
Yes. The roll through an extended corner will remain the same, only the transient response - roll during those quick little jerks side-to-side while running straight - will exhibit more body roll, because while the Monroes are in the 'sweet spot' of their travel they will allow the suspension to respond a little faster.
The amount of lean for any turn that extends more than about 5 seconds doesn't depend on the shocks.
The amount of lean for any turn that extends more than about 5 seconds doesn't depend on the shocks.
08-19-2006, 04:58 PM
#70
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THIS IS CBSIMONSEZ, NOT JENNAYlol
As i road up the Belt Parkway on LI i did notice that the humps and bumps were much softer. This was an addtional 75 miles on my newly installed shocks. Most of the jaw shattering teeth jaring hits were gone; i have taken this same route to my GFs for almost 2 years now, but the back end is a little more squishy. Overall, im on the fence about the Monroes. My stock KYBs and the Progress suspension made for one hell of a ride with little to no body roll no matter how slow or fast the turn was. Now, i do have more wiggle in the rear then i once did. It only makes sense, cause i wanted the rear to absorb shock easier then the stock suspension did.
I can see this being a nice set up for those who have a stiffer suspension with a higher spring rate. It should smooth it out some. Mine was already smooth, now it may be too smooth.
I have a week before i drive from NJ to Ohio and back, so ill report my findings then.
As i road up the Belt Parkway on LI i did notice that the humps and bumps were much softer. This was an addtional 75 miles on my newly installed shocks. Most of the jaw shattering teeth jaring hits were gone; i have taken this same route to my GFs for almost 2 years now, but the back end is a little more squishy. Overall, im on the fence about the Monroes. My stock KYBs and the Progress suspension made for one hell of a ride with little to no body roll no matter how slow or fast the turn was. Now, i do have more wiggle in the rear then i once did. It only makes sense, cause i wanted the rear to absorb shock easier then the stock suspension did.
I can see this being a nice set up for those who have a stiffer suspension with a higher spring rate. It should smooth it out some. Mine was already smooth, now it may be too smooth.
I have a week before i drive from NJ to Ohio and back, so ill report my findings then.
08-20-2006, 12:56 AM
#73
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Originally Posted by silverevo05
? so for a stock suspension 5987 or 5870's?
will it (5987 or 5870) lower the fron .5 in with stoc springs?
anyone with 5870 on stock suspension (how does it ride?)
Thanks!!!!!!!!!
will it (5987 or 5870) lower the fron .5 in with stoc springs?
anyone with 5870 on stock suspension (how does it ride?)
Thanks!!!!!!!!!
08-20-2006, 02:30 AM
#75
Silverevo05, here's the info on the rear shocks:
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...779314#1779314
...and here's why you probably don't need front struts:
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...759392#1759392
...and finally, here's the info in why the replacement front struts (which, after all are meant for a 2002 Echo sedan, not an xB) will lower the front, only, about 1/2 inch if installed in place of the stock struts:
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...699270#1699270
(Yes, those are all links to earlier posts in this very thread... :D )
Tomas
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...779314#1779314
...and here's why you probably don't need front struts:
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...759392#1759392
...and finally, here's the info in why the replacement front struts (which, after all are meant for a 2002 Echo sedan, not an xB) will lower the front, only, about 1/2 inch if installed in place of the stock struts:
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...699270#1699270
(Yes, those are all links to earlier posts in this very thread... :D )
Tomas
08-22-2006, 07:51 PM
#76
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Well, after all this banter on these shocks I ordered a pair of the 5987's this AM. Local Discount supplier, 73.00 including sales tax. Hopefully will be in tomorrow early PM. I think I will do some fine measuring and see how everything shakes out before and after as far as ride height is concerned. I still have stock springs, 36K miles
Walt
Walt
08-22-2006, 11:59 PM
#77
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Originally Posted by Newtmaker
... I ordered a pair of the 5987's... will do some fine measuring and see how everything shakes out before and after as far as ride height is concerned. I still have stock springs...
08-23-2006, 01:31 AM
#78
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Originally Posted by vintage42
Originally Posted by Newtmaker
... I ordered a pair of the 5987's... will do some fine measuring and see how everything shakes out before and after as far as ride height is concerned. I still have stock springs...
Walt
08-23-2006, 05:20 PM
#79
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Installed the Monroes
They came in today and it took me 40 minutes to get them in. (Hey, I'm 64 and it's hard for me to crawl around under the car anymore 
I measured the height before at a convenient point and it was 8 inches exactly. After the install the measurement was the same. As I expected!
Ride is noticable different. I'm not sure yet if it is better yet. Some of you may remember me as the old fart who switched to 14 inch tires to get a better ride. With the somewhat soft 195-65 x 14 tires I have at 30 psi front and 28 rear, I was already pretty satisfied with the overall ride quality. Now I just have to get used to the way the new shocks react before I can pass a final judgement.
Walt
I measured the height before at a convenient point and it was 8 inches exactly. After the install the measurement was the same. As I expected!
Ride is noticable different. I'm not sure yet if it is better yet. Some of you may remember me as the old fart who switched to 14 inch tires to get a better ride. With the somewhat soft 195-65 x 14 tires I have at 30 psi front and 28 rear, I was already pretty satisfied with the overall ride quality. Now I just have to get used to the way the new shocks react before I can pass a final judgement.
Walt
08-23-2006, 10:34 PM
#80
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Re: Installed the Monroes
Originally Posted by Newtmaker
... Some of the earlier postings said that just changing the shocks made a difference in the ride height...
Originally Posted by Newtmaker
... I measured the height before at a convenient point and it was 8 inches exactly. After the install the measurement was the same. As I expected!...