Sittin_Pretti_Box

How bout you guys try air ride on a car/truck with a 454 in it. and tell me how the torque doesn't snap anything.

Honestly guys, a broken line or blown bag, won't make you lose control of your car and die. You know what would happen? Whatever side it was on, it would just leak down and thats about it. No worse than a flat tire.

Hotbox05. i don't mean you are the ignorant one.

All in all, air isn't as bad or unsafe as you all think. so instead of some fighting game, i think this would be better as a opened and closed discussion since its turning into a brawl.

hamads

i do believe that bags are pretty much for show..but i dont think much people have intentions of auto-X with their xB. I used to have coilovers on my civic just b/c lowering springs arent adjustable..when i bagged my s10 i was introduced to bags and im glad to have it for the past 3 yrs. yes bags do have cons but IMO, i'd rather have it than coilovers b/c you dont have to get under ur car or anythign of that sort to adjust your ride height (im only talking about ride height now, not dampening)

crazy_kat_matt

what the hell. when did this topic change, and when did I BECOME THE PERSON THAT CREATED IT?!

crazy_kat_matt

what the hell. when did this topic change, and when did I BECOME THE PERSON THAT CREATED IT?! i did NOT authorize this lol

crazy_kat_matt

my dad has the praxis air ride suspension for his wrx. it is meant for SCCA. gradual, adjustable height, and it adjusts to turning. now that is decent. but im glad i have a bunch of people taht stand behind me on coilovers.

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...BA1&perfCode=P


that is what my dad has on his car

RTon20s

The fact still remains, failures in air suspension are due to ignorance and inability. Not due to the system it's self. Following the lines of logic here, I would never trust a coil spring again. I mean who knows when that steel will just decide to revert back to it's original straight form?! I could end up with a steel rod through my neck!

The claims made on this site would be like reading a story about someone with no training who steals a plane and crashes it. Then turning around and saying planes aren't safe for travel because that one crashed. Air bags and other forms of pneumatic suspension are as reliable and trustworthy as any other system out there. As long as the systems are engineered, designed, and installed properly. Not to mention they offer a greater degree of adjustability and tune-ability than just about any other system out there.

hotbox05

when have you ever seen a steel spring turn into a rod in someones neck? never,,,,
what about air lift struts , and rear bags , and whether it's installed right or not. bags can mess up...
let alone if theres road debris that goes under yer car then snag a bag bam. cant snag a coilover spring.....


you install a coilover setup wrong you wont go down in one corner at speed. worst case is your a little bit lowere on one side. or if you're a complete retard at installs you have a blown shock or a nut comes loose. but that's gross install negligence.

and every car or vehicle i've driven or ridden in that was on air was uncomfortable and a bit sketchy..... not saying all are. but every one ive been in was.

debris

whooooooooo cares.....coilovers nice for racing ..bags great for show...buy one or the other what ever your need., and as it looks a majority of us cant afford eather.so stop fighting which one is better.

hotbox05

oh brian. ha ha ha .

RTon20s

Properly engineered, designed, and installed. I never made any claim as to the engineering or design of the Air Lift equipment. A properly engineered system will be virtually worry free.

Well we better go warn those 3 million plus truck drivers out there that they are driving death traps. It's a wonder we have food on our table and clothes on our back considering one of the nation's most vital infrastructures is relying on such dangerous equipment.

Anything bad enough to take out an air spring will most certainly do damage regardless of what components you are using. Are the rubber compounds more susceptible to damage than a piece of wound steel rod? Most certainly. Can they take the abuse expected in every day use on America's highways? Absolutely.


The same holds true for an air bag installation. You can not blame a system for "gross install negligence" as you put it. Plainly put, if you aren't competent enough to install a suspension system, ANY SUSPENSION SYSTEM, don't put your life and others at risk. As stated before a properly engineered, designed and installed pneumatic suspension system is as reliable as anything else out on the road.

Then you haven't been in a vehicle that has been bagged properly. Or you have been in one where the driver is not knowledgeable enough to tune their air system. The biggest problems with "air bags" is that to many people take too many short cuts in order to have an adjustable suspension. When correctly designed and engineered system is installed properly it will ride better, and handle as well if not better than anything else on the road.

And remember... there is a key word in every statement that I have made regarding pneumatic suspension. That word is "system." A pneumatic suspension system is more than the some of its parts. All of the components chosen for a system must work together. From correct air spring selection (load rating) to correct shock or strut selection (dampening). And even then it must be properly tuned. Things like mounting locations, shock angles, alignment pressure/height all have to be considered. A good pneumatic suspension is a lot more than throwing a couple balloons under your car and filling them up with a helium tank.

RTon20s

Ahhh... come on. It's all in fun. And even though it may seem like we are at each others throat, we really aren't. I wouldn't even call it fighting. More like a debate. And a friendly one at that. At least I haven't been getting upset. I hope no one else has.

We are all Scion owners, and I hope that something as small as a disagreement over which suspension one person prefers wouldn't cause a divide.

Besides, what looks like fighting to some, can be informative to others.

debris

true that

crazy_kat_matt

hey this is coming into a fun topic. i love that response at the top about the spring turning into a steel rod going into someones neck

hotbox05

whether air lift is engineered well or not it's widely sold and most peeps who arent in tune may buy em and bam....


as far as big rigs they sit alot higher than most bagged cars do.... and that's a fact. we are both reaching for the sky. lol....


to you anyone who isnt a pro installing an air bag system shouldnt be doing it. yet lets say someone who is really car savvy is installing a pneumatic system. lets say he unsuspectingly uses an inferior bracket to hold a line. the line comes loose and drags the ground. bam loss of air.....and yes i know you can install extra valves so this doesnt happen but not very many people do it. let alone the cost and extra work that is required...

or lets say someone loves to slam the schnit out of their bags and weakens the bag... so lets say they are driving hit one bag up and then it pops.. lets say they were going 40 or so. safe enough but still sketchy...

lets say the same weakened bag is at constant pressure at ride height...... going down a bumpy highway at say 90 mph. hit a huge bump and the pressure exerted onto / into the bag.... causes it to pop. lets say that it happened on a slow gradual curve at 90. blammo your hitting the wall . or if theres no wall your unlucky **** will hit another vehicle head on. and no that wasnt from improper install or faulty equipment...... just someone who thought they were using their bags properly/correctly. yet they weakened their system at an accelerated pace.

it can be safe but with alot more variables coming into play when using a pneumatic system i'll take my chances with a metal formerly coil spring through my neck.

crazy_kat_matt

basically what braddah hotbox05 is trying to say is, if you arent car savvy. STAY AWAY from them and let the pros work on them. see me, i dont trust anyone else working on a car but ME lol

hotbox05

i'm as close to a pro as you can get. almost all of the knowledge just no papers.

i'm just saying with air there is always a risk of a bag or a line blowing. with coilovers there's really no risk like that.

aireck

^^^ you run risks with anything that is aftermarket ..heck even sometimes with the oem stuff...lol!!

hotbox05

this is true. i'm just stating it's a higher risk. not liek death wish but a higher rick nonetheless. and the less experience you have with cars in general the higher the risk. let alone running air without knowing how to.

but system for system a pneumatic systems has a much larger chance of something going wrong than a coilover setup. whether it's from install , manufacturing , materials used. or hell just wear and tear.

as well as the maintanence as far as draining your tank , using a water seperator , checking valves for leaks , making sure you use dump filter as too keep sand and dirt and debris out of your valves so they dont leak. just alot more stuff going on. and each little component of an air system can cause a leak or a problem.


alltho i dislike air it can be great. but let me say this.....

if you even think you may have a hard time installing. and dont have a pro to go to and learn/help do not do it.

RTon20s

I am not here to defend Air Lift or any other specific companies product. Simply speaking in general terms about the reality of pneumatic suspensions.

Lower or higher, each can be an advantage or a disadvantage. It all depends on situation. Hazarding any guess as to what would happen is nothing more than speculation.

I absolutely do not think professionals are the only people that should do installs. And that is related to any type of product. The key to my thoughts is that if you feel a task is beyond your abilities, don't go at it alone. Seek guidance and assistance. If you still feel it is beyond your means, seek out a professional and pay the cost for peace of mind. And this goes for any type of installation. Whether it be suspension, engine, stereo, or any other kind of work.

This is again a case of misconception or ignorance. Just because some "loves to slam the schnit" out of their car, as you put it, does not mean you will have a "weakened" bag. As long as bags are used within their design limitation they will provide years and years of reliable service. Most likely longer than any of us will own our cars. Slamming a car to the ground will NOT pop a bag as long as it is kept within it's design limitations.

Again, this is a matter of keeping a bag within it's design specifications. Bags are designed with two different pressure loadings. One is constant pressure. This is the one most everyone is aware of. This is the maximum pressure at the bag in a constant state. Then there is the "burst" pressure. Now contrary to what some may think, burst pressure is not the pressure at which the bag will burst. Essentially it is the pressure the bag is designed to handle in the instance of a pressure spike. As an example, when you have the bag inflated and hit a horrendous bump. The pressure spikes momentarily, but soon settles back to the previous pressure as the suspension stabilizes. Burst pressure is also seen when the fill valves release air into the bags.

Unless you are exceeding the maximum constant design pressure, the chances of actually "popping" a bag because of a pressure spike is almost zero.

You are right, air bags can be safe, and there are a lot more variables. That is one of the trade offs. Just as with anything else. A standard coil spring is the least hassle of all the suspension options for the xB. It is also the least expensive, and offers the least amount of flexibility. Then you can move into a coil-over system. These cost more to install, and are more work to fine tune. More parts mean a greater number of parts that can fail. And finally you move into air bags. More parts, and more expensive than even the coil-over systems. But, you get the greatest amount of flexibility and tune-ability with this option.

It is all personal choice and personal preference. It is just sad to see that so many here have been soured to the thought of pneumatic suspension because of bad installs or poorly designed products. Pneumatic suspension can be just as reliable, and offers the greatest degree of tune-ability available.

RTon20s

Potential for problems, and actual problems are two completely different things. There are potentials for problems in avery single suspension system out there. A properly engineered and installed pneumatic suspension can be a trouble free suspension for years and years.

The fact remains, it boils down to preference and ability. Choose what you like, and have the ability, or money to have installed properly.