DarkBoxJr

Slotting and drilling your own rotors is the worst idea ever. Not only will this cause hot spots during hard braking, it will severely compromise the structural integrity of the rotors. And unless your pads produce large amounts of gas during braking, slotting and drilling is useless.

LeeD

I would agree with Squirrel here totally.

Especially with regarding the real life usage of Wilwood brakes. In the tracking community it's known that Wilwood brakes are the absolute cheapest way you can go for a brake upgrade. Not only that, but they require a lot more maintance and care.

Now, I've never owned one (and I haven't read the rest of this thread either so it may have already been mentioned), but if I'm not mistaken, they have no dust boots for the caliper pistons, so the pistons can easily get dirty and jam if not kept clean at all times. I personally would never install a Wilwood kit for my xA RS 1.0 or for any family member or immediate family member if they don't want to open up the calipers and rebuild them frequently.

Regarding the question of adding MORE rear brake. I would recommend against it. Changing braking ratio front to rear is a touchy thing if you're doing a custom job and you have no bias bar. If you have a bias bar, then crap, more power to you, but you'll find your going to be adjusting the bar for more front brake bias.

Ever driven a go-kart with only rear brakes? Feel what it does when you just ever so lightly tap the brakes while going into a turn? Feel the tail want to spin you around? That's what's going to happen to you if you increase the size of the rear brakes w/o adjusting the front rear ratio with a bias bar.

LeeD

btw, unless you've got a more 50/50 weight distributed car, it's risky to increase the rear break hp. The more front weight weighted the car, the more risky.

LeeD

I agree with DarkBoxJr here.

lonewolfxb

LeeD makes alot of sense in his posts, I would not mess with the rear brakes. You will have to adjust your bias if you start on the rears. If you don't know whats up you are screwed! Just my 02 tho.

1_Sick_XB

Dont mess with either.

just get good pads and lines and leave it stock.

your car isnt fast enough or heavy enough to need anything beyond stock.

windowtint

Lord these "they're good enough" discussions get old. Why is it so far beyond most everyones comprehnsion that most of these guys who are doing things like rear disc conversions, big brake upgrades, etc etc AREN'T DOING IT FOR THE SLAM-YOUR-FACE-ON-THE-WINDSHIELD STOPPING POWER???

It's 90% (OR MORE!) all for LOOKS. Someone goes and gets x-drilled rotors from eBay --- who really beleives it was all for the performance? Takes a real detective to figure that one out. Nice job Det. Monk.

All the 'con' arguements ARE valid (and correct)... but goddamnit!!! Who in the hell is being convinced? The choir? They already know. The rest... they don't care.

The b's and a's are relatively ugly, slow, underpowered... Off the floor, these things are all about show and no go.

hotbox05

don't start stuff bro , yer thinkin stock boxes and most arent stock

1_Sick_XB

stock / modded looks who cares jsut as slow.

homeboy is right these box's look hawt.. and thats it.. besides carry my newborn back and forth.

wildwoods aren't needed for looks.

paint the stockers and buy some crap crossdrilled's and have your looks.

LeeD

Funny you say that. I find that 90%+ do it for performance and I have to frequently sit and repeat pages from my Physics 101 book to convince otherwise. I can even still remember one thread on another forum where one guy was dead solid sure that crossdrilling will help for streat applications. It went on for like 7 or more pages and got extremely ugly...

Some people are very subborn, so I no longer like pushing issues. It becomes a wast of time when you find people that are just iriversable brain washed. You just gotta let it go, and let them be happy in their own world.

Maybe your b, but I think my a is sweet. ;) After I got it, for almost 2-3 months, not a week went by that I didn't get a compliment from a complete stranger. Yes, they are slow... But that hasn't stopped lots of people from talking about 1/4 mile times and other performance related topics. I happily take my to the race track and have been very happy with it's performance. If you've ever been to the race track, you'd know that horsepower isn't everything.

But I agree. Nothing wrong with just doing stuff for show. I just try and point out the risks. Anybody can do what every they choose after that..

DarkBoxJr

It's this kind of attitude that keeps aftermarket companies from really going all out on the xA/B. How much do you think the automotive industry would have advanced over the past hundred years if everyone thought "good enough is good enough?" I'm sure at one point most people were like "Modify a Civic for power? But why, they're economical grocery getters." I know that there are a few people on this board that actually know what they're doing with their cars and I hope they back me up on the fact that the parts are already available. If I want a good 20hp boost, I can buy the parts myself. I worked on a Volvo for six years before I got my xB, with barely ANY aftermarket parts available, and the parts that were available were in limited quantities and at a hefty price. I mean, why would anyone modify a Volvo? It's a family sedan. Sure, when I was finished I had a good 190hp, 230+ lb-ft "family sedan," and I DREAMED of the reliability of a Toyota. I was running 12.5 psi, my exhaust consisted of nothing but a downpipe, I stripped the interior, and I'm confident that I had one of the fastest Volvos in my area, this side of an 850R. I wished I could just go out and buy an exhaust manifold for $250, or an intake for $150, but I had to make almost everything myself. I don't think most people here realize just how easy they have it when it comes to modifications, and if you want to keep your box at 108hp, fine, but don't bring the attitude that it has to stay that way.

1_Sick_XB

i hear that.
i got a 300zx and i have to make everything. but after all that i managed 587hp outa 14psi. awaiting my 30psi run after i get my wideband and egt.

Mods can be bought for my xb but it will never be a performer like other cars can be. yea you want to make it quicker to pull into traffic or beat a annoying honda on the road ok. but dont act like it can be one of the beastly cars that roam the streets. i love my scion for pimpin looks and family people mover. but wildwoods are too much. you can waste that $$ on plenty of other stuff.

this not enough:

stock parts with crossdrilled's and better pads.. cheaper and does the same job. go spend the rest of the moeny on some Power mods so your brakes can actually work.

quadoptix

my wilwoods saved my ___ from acouple accidents already that happened say 2 lanes over on the freeway and moved over into my lane. tahts all i gotta say...u guys have ur opnion n thats cool i got mine cause i wanted them. to me its all bout whhat the person wants..if someone else dont think its necessary thats totally fine. thats that persons opinion. i love my brakes. im done.

LeeD

So, what wilwood do you have that your so happy with that make so much of a stopping difference? Which wilwood caliper (they have a lot of different ones) Wilwood front, rear, both? rotor size before/after? Pad brand/type before/after? Fluid before/after?

I looked in your profile, but it doesn't say anything.

btw, the comments I make are facts, not opinion.

quadoptix

I have the 13.8" rotor setup w/ 6 piston front and 6 piston rear. the 13.8's are all the way around. Pad type is the onees that came w/ the wilwood setup i forgot which ones they are. Using same fluid as wilwood's instructions said its not necessary to change them.


as for all that i love my brake setup. its a very dramatic improvement over the stock setup. if you dont like wilwoods thts fine im not telling you to go out and buy them. u dont need to be an @$$hole bout it. I'm a very friendly person and can be talked to easily, just dont be a dick when u ask questions n what not

LeeD

Not sure who your point your anger at in your post, but nowhere in my posting on this thread was I pushing my opinion or being an a$$.

Wow, 13.8"'s are big. 6 Pistons front and rear are huge too. Never knew somebody even sold such big sizes for Scions. Changing fluid to some higher boiling point fluid like Redline is probably only nessisary for tracking, but since these cars are so light, and with a brake upgrade, you probably won't reach the temperatures needed to even worry about it. But, if once something like Redline is used, you'll find it's performance drops off after a few weeks or few months, so if you autox, I'd suggest flushing it more frequently than usual. I was only asking about the fluid out of curiosty.

Some things I want to pass along. You and others may already know this.
fact: you can increase stopping power simply by replacing pads. bigger pads and bigger rotors obvious improve even more.

fact: unless there is already a proportioning valve already inside the master cylinder to adjust the fluid ratio, running a setup similar to yours will make the car spin if there's aggresive braking while turning. Fine in a straight line, but turning...

fact: my friends, and myself have spun cars on the race track with even 4piston Stoptechs ~13.7 front, stock 2piston 11.5" rear. and also 6piston AP Racing ~13.7" front, stock 2piston 11.5" rear. These were also with cars with better weight ratios than an xB.

fact: I can get my xA RS1.0 to spin out while very aggressively trail braking in a turn on STOCK brakes.

fact: Almost all cars that run same sized brakes, front/rear, have almost 50/50 ratios are are usually mid-engine or rear engine.

Just passing along some info. Take it or leave it. You may already know, but I strongly suggest you use caution when aggressively braking in turns. I've raced and setup cars for years and have spun cars with much much less than what you have.

btw, how's your pedal feel. Need more pressure to stop the same amount? Squashy? Hard like a rock? Very very sensitive?

I may consider a front 6piston 13.8" setup on the front only if the price is right. Personally, I don't need it for tracking, but better braking makes for more safety if I or my fiance is driving.

Ashe_WCM

Hey leeD, how are you getting spinout?
I have only ever gotten a little Drift even with extremely aggressive trail braking on a stock suspension.
What type of rubber are you using?

quadoptix

well some of ur posts come off kinda rough, but all good i know u didnt mean it. as for the 13.8 they actually never made it for commercial sale. It was for sema vehicles they did and i happen to be able to land a set thru my friends car. It's actally 6 pistn front, 4 pistong rear. pedal pressure is actually less than what i had to push before for the same pressure...it reacts extremely fast..sometimes suprisingly. I'm use to driving w/ them. thanks for the word of caution, im not a newbie driver myself so all is understood when u tell people to be careful. I know a good set of pads and SS lines is all thats needed..thats what i use to do for my other friends cars that track..those setups are great. This brake setup i tried it and love it. I'm not gonna lie, i dont want to track my xB as thats not what its for. Im building it as a cruiser and show car, but i do drive fast myself and do a lot ofwy driving. I just like how they work and stop and i havent had a problem w/ the no dust boot thing and my car is a daily driver. The wilwoods never have gotten extremely hot from hard street driving, just warm compared to any other brakes ive ever ran u can cook an egg w/ the shell still on.

LeeD

(not to bring this too far off topic..)

When I did it, it was at the race track, not on the street. I don't feel comfortable enough on the street to drive like I do at the race track. Too scary. But I'm like you, I can only get a very minimal amount on the street. Stock tires by the way on a RS 1.0, which reminds me. I didn't technically spinout because I was severly correcting and the VSC was working. This weekend when I hit the track, I'll be driving with it disabled.

If you have VSC on your car, I found it's pretty difficult to spin out the car, so anybody doing aggresive rear brake upgrades actually should have a safer buffer zone with VSC..

Ashe_WCM

Well I was talking about the track actually, I don't drive anywhere near 100% on the street(closer to 75%), the Non-RS 1.0 xA doesn't have VSC so thats not so much of an issue.

Back on topic(sorta) I noticed today that the braided SS line they use for brakelines is same stuff I use on my Paintball marker