View Poll Results: What are you running.
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For Xb's with Air Ride!
11-30-2005, 05:37 PM
#42
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Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 766
Originally Posted by crayonBOX
i read alot of this thread, and then got lost in some bickering ( i think; no pointing fingers though, good points all around)
back to the original question, and then ill follow up with everyone else:
i run an easystreet all around:
8 valve
10switch/4 switch (interchangable)
viair 380c w/a 5gal.
and synflex hosing (1/2", 3/8" valves)
i park my car side to side occasionaly, and have done so at shows, infact i've 'danced' my car fb/s/s at shows w/ luckily no problem.
i agree w/brianxb, ive noticed a difference in how the doors close when lifted/dropped/on angle. other than that though, no real issues ive noticed.
maybe the dampening of the 9way struts up front make me feel like im bouncing when i slow/decelerate like a big rig (similar air ride reaction i guess) i have them set at the least dampening right now, it allows for a smooth up and down.
other topics hit on:
side to side air transfer: ive noticed, (i run dual needle gauges) with my 8 valve setup, on a corner, psi may raise in a side by 10psi or more (freeway onramps) if youdidnt have a "block" between the bags, the air would transfer, maybe not enough to cause issue, but imagine (for those who have side to side) on an onramp curving to the right, dumping air from the driver's side, (improper banking)
again, if you're used to it, no problem.
someone said something to the effect of, "having the valves would serve as a block so no air would transfer" - not true. if you have enough load in one side, the air will transfter back to the tank (if the bag pressure overcomes the tank pressure) and that side will go lower. All valves have a tendancy to leak a little.
sciondrgn - hit me up with that nitrogen information, i might endeavor to do some high psi work (maybe not nitrogen high, but ill pm you)
one thing's for sure, it's better to have 8 valves and not use em, than have 4 and want to do an adjustment that you cant unless you had 8.
i made a 4 switch box that controls independent per wheel, and it's semi useful. but my daily switches are front/rear/all.
im open to q's if need b.
~tesh
www.fotki.com/scionnighthd
www.fotki.com/jugnu03
www.fotki.com/crayonboxin
back to the original question, and then ill follow up with everyone else:
i run an easystreet all around:
8 valve
10switch/4 switch (interchangable)
viair 380c w/a 5gal.
and synflex hosing (1/2", 3/8" valves)
i park my car side to side occasionaly, and have done so at shows, infact i've 'danced' my car fb/s/s at shows w/ luckily no problem.
i agree w/brianxb, ive noticed a difference in how the doors close when lifted/dropped/on angle. other than that though, no real issues ive noticed.
maybe the dampening of the 9way struts up front make me feel like im bouncing when i slow/decelerate like a big rig (similar air ride reaction i guess) i have them set at the least dampening right now, it allows for a smooth up and down.
other topics hit on:
side to side air transfer: ive noticed, (i run dual needle gauges) with my 8 valve setup, on a corner, psi may raise in a side by 10psi or more (freeway onramps) if youdidnt have a "block" between the bags, the air would transfer, maybe not enough to cause issue, but imagine (for those who have side to side) on an onramp curving to the right, dumping air from the driver's side, (improper banking)
again, if you're used to it, no problem.
someone said something to the effect of, "having the valves would serve as a block so no air would transfer" - not true. if you have enough load in one side, the air will transfter back to the tank (if the bag pressure overcomes the tank pressure) and that side will go lower. All valves have a tendancy to leak a little.
sciondrgn - hit me up with that nitrogen information, i might endeavor to do some high psi work (maybe not nitrogen high, but ill pm you)
one thing's for sure, it's better to have 8 valves and not use em, than have 4 and want to do an adjustment that you cant unless you had 8.
i made a 4 switch box that controls independent per wheel, and it's semi useful. but my daily switches are front/rear/all.
im open to q's if need b.
~tesh
www.fotki.com/scionnighthd
www.fotki.com/jugnu03
www.fotki.com/crayonboxin
Thanks crayon. Excellent post. I am still going to keep my 8 valves and just deal with the body issues as they come along.
A lady ran out in front of me the other day from a red light so now I have a wrecked xb
Still waiting on insurance to come throgh so i can get that fixed and there gonna go ahead and realign my doors to while there fixing the body damage
Also Ive got some more tubing and some fittings coming in today along with some Speed Reducers for my valves. Im gonna try to slow down the dump some to see if that will help. Right now its crazy fast
Im running
ES front
FBI + SS bags in rear
GC Extreme 1/2 valves and Line
2 Viar 450's running 175 psi Pressure Switch
One of those Pre-Wired 10 Switch boxes for now
11-30-2005, 08:37 PM
#43
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,066
Originally Posted by crayonBOX
i read alot of this thread, and then got lost in some bickering ( i think; no pointing fingers though, good points all around)
back to the original question, and then ill follow up with everyone else:
i run an easystreet all around:
8 valve
10switch/4 switch (interchangable)
viair 380c w/a 5gal.
and synflex hosing (1/2", 3/8" valves)
i park my car side to side occasionaly, and have done so at shows, infact i've 'danced' my car fb/s/s at shows w/ luckily no problem.
i agree w/brianxb, ive noticed a difference in how the doors close when lifted/dropped/on angle. other than that though, no real issues ive noticed.
maybe the dampening of the 9way struts up front make me feel like im bouncing when i slow/decelerate like a big rig (similar air ride reaction i guess) i have them set at the least dampening right now, it allows for a smooth up and down.
other topics hit on:
side to side air transfer: ive noticed, (i run dual needle gauges) with my 8 valve setup, on a corner, psi may raise in a side by 10psi or more (freeway onramps) if youdidnt have a "block" between the bags, the air would transfer, maybe not enough to cause issue, but imagine (for those who have side to side) on an onramp curving to the right, dumping air from the driver's side, (improper banking)
again, if you're used to it, no problem.
someone said something to the effect of, "having the valves would serve as a block so no air would transfer" - not true. if you have enough load in one side, the air will transfter back to the tank (if the bag pressure overcomes the tank pressure) and that side will go lower. All valves have a tendancy to leak a little.
sciondrgn - hit me up with that nitrogen information, i might endeavor to do some high psi work (maybe not nitrogen high, but ill pm you)
one thing's for sure, it's better to have 8 valves and not use em, than have 4 and want to do an adjustment that you cant unless you had 8.
i made a 4 switch box that controls independent per wheel, and it's semi useful. but my daily switches are front/rear/all.
im open to q's if need b.
back to the original question, and then ill follow up with everyone else:
i run an easystreet all around:
8 valve
10switch/4 switch (interchangable)
viair 380c w/a 5gal.
and synflex hosing (1/2", 3/8" valves)
i park my car side to side occasionaly, and have done so at shows, infact i've 'danced' my car fb/s/s at shows w/ luckily no problem.
i agree w/brianxb, ive noticed a difference in how the doors close when lifted/dropped/on angle. other than that though, no real issues ive noticed.
maybe the dampening of the 9way struts up front make me feel like im bouncing when i slow/decelerate like a big rig (similar air ride reaction i guess) i have them set at the least dampening right now, it allows for a smooth up and down.
other topics hit on:
side to side air transfer: ive noticed, (i run dual needle gauges) with my 8 valve setup, on a corner, psi may raise in a side by 10psi or more (freeway onramps) if youdidnt have a "block" between the bags, the air would transfer, maybe not enough to cause issue, but imagine (for those who have side to side) on an onramp curving to the right, dumping air from the driver's side, (improper banking)
again, if you're used to it, no problem.
someone said something to the effect of, "having the valves would serve as a block so no air would transfer" - not true. if you have enough load in one side, the air will transfter back to the tank (if the bag pressure overcomes the tank pressure) and that side will go lower. All valves have a tendancy to leak a little.
sciondrgn - hit me up with that nitrogen information, i might endeavor to do some high psi work (maybe not nitrogen high, but ill pm you)
one thing's for sure, it's better to have 8 valves and not use em, than have 4 and want to do an adjustment that you cant unless you had 8.
i made a 4 switch box that controls independent per wheel, and it's semi useful. but my daily switches are front/rear/all.
im open to q's if need b.
If you have a properly installed 8 valves air management system there is NO WAY you are seeing air transfer. NO WAY. What you are seeing is the compression of the outside bag when you corner. When the bag is compressed it creates a smaller area for the air inside of the bag to fill. Assuming that the volume of air is constant (which it is) the smaller space would mean higher pressure. This is the pressure difference you are seeing when you turn.
The fact is, you would probably see LESS pressure difference with a 4 valve system. This is a BAD thing. What is happening is exactly what I have been trying to describe all along. The volume of air is following the path of least resistance. The volume of air is fixed.
As additional pressure is exerted on the outside air bag, the bag is compressed. When the bag is compressed the air would be forced to a higher pressure. However, because you have allowed the air someplace else to go, it does. At the same time the outside is seeing more load, the inside bag see less. The bag gets stretched and the pressure should drop. But because you have an open path between the two bags, the air finds it's own happy medium. Air moves from the bag that NEEDS more pressure (outside) to the bag that SHOULD NOT get more pressure (inside)!
The other comments you made were related to valves leaking. This is also NOT TRUE. A quality valve installed and maintained properly will not leak. And as far as your comment about pressure differential causing leaks? This is also untrue. If it were the valves would be absolutely pointless! What do you think keeps the pressurized air in your tank from filling your air bags? The only time you would see air transfer from the bag to the tank is if you energized a fill valve who's airbag had more pressure than the supply side of the valve. The chances of this happening on a properly installed and properly working pneumatic system are slim to none.
The thought that the valves we use for air suspension are unreliable is laughable. The use of these valves for automotive suspension is such a small percentage of the manufacturer's market it is ridiculous. The original application for the valves we use is industrial. Namely processing plants and the like that require the precision and accuracy afforded by solenoid valves.
Lastly, just to try and keep you from thinking I am a total jerk I'll address the questions you probably have about compressed gas. Bottom line is that pressure is pressure. One gas does not really afford any more pressure than another. Now this isn't to say that one doesn't have benefit over another.
The most popular options are compressed air, CO2, Nitrogen and Helium. Of these my recommendation will almost always be Nitrogen for trucks. It is more consistent than air as it is not affected by weather and does not contain moisture. I would never even consider using CO2, even though many do.
And the only way I would go compressed air is if I was using a SCUBA type system. The SCUBA systems allow higher pressure in a smaller bottle. Great for cars without a lot of space for big bottles. But this also means buying a special, more expensive regulator.
Sorry if I offended anyone. But I am just trying to keep the facts straight.
11-30-2005, 08:44 PM
#44
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,066
Originally Posted by sciondrgn
Originally Posted by RTon20s
Originally Posted by sciondrgn
Bags Were mounted behind the wheels on the inside of the frame, connecting bars when lifted by the bags would push up from the axle lifting the frame
And Oneloww I wouldnt know about the s10forum I never joined
And Oneloww I wouldnt know about the s10forum I never joined
Did you have one trailing arm on each side that attached to your stock front leaf spring hanger? And the bags were mounted on that?
If so, that is called a 2 link and is probably one of the WORST suspension "designs" ever conceived by hack job "customizers." No offense to you or your truck.
Its a reverse Cantilever essentialy a reverse 4 link with a cantilever lifting for the frame. it was all custom built.
No offense RT but jus quit. seriously. Every post you make is hating on someone else's way of doing things and just about every other post you keep reminding us how long youve been dealing with air suspension.. I personally dont care. Ive made my points, im through bickering with someone who has to think there right all the time .
And I won't even start on the rear suspension you had on your truck. But next time you get a chance to talk to an actual engineer who deals with suspension design, ask him or her what they think about a reverse 4 link on a truck. I think you will find what they have to say interesting.
I am quickly starting to find that talking to people on SL is much like trying to talk to people on Street Source when it comes to suspension. No one ever wants to admit that their way may just be wrong. Or... *gasp* ...maybe even dangerous.
11-30-2005, 10:16 PM
#45
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 766
Originally Posted by RTon20s
Originally Posted by sciondrgn
Originally Posted by RTon20s
Originally Posted by sciondrgn
Bags Were mounted behind the wheels on the inside of the frame, connecting bars when lifted by the bags would push up from the axle lifting the frame
And Oneloww I wouldnt know about the s10forum I never joined
And Oneloww I wouldnt know about the s10forum I never joined
Did you have one trailing arm on each side that attached to your stock front leaf spring hanger? And the bags were mounted on that?
If so, that is called a 2 link and is probably one of the WORST suspension "designs" ever conceived by hack job "customizers." No offense to you or your truck.
Its a reverse Cantilever essentialy a reverse 4 link with a cantilever lifting for the frame. it was all custom built.
No offense RT but jus quit. seriously. Every post you make is hating on someone else's way of doing things and just about every other post you keep reminding us how long youve been dealing with air suspension.. I personally dont care. Ive made my points, im through bickering with someone who has to think there right all the time .
And I won't even start on the rear suspension you had on your truck. But next time you get a chance to talk to an actual engineer who deals with suspension design, ask him or her what they think about a reverse 4 link on a truck. I think you will find what they have to say interesting.
I am quickly starting to find that talking to people on SL is much like trying to talk to people on Street Source when it comes to suspension. No one ever wants to admit that their way may just be wrong. Or... *gasp* ...maybe even dangerous.
Sorry im not bickering with you anymore..
Simply put Right or Wrong the systems I have used on my truck has prooven itself with no troubles or issues so if its the wrong way then so be it.. Do you know how many type of rear s10 suspension there is? So whos to says whats right and wrong.. they all work and all have reprecussions and everyone with air ride is taking that chance of failure especially doing something custom versus a bolt on mod.
Opinions are one thing but please dont come on here saying my ways are wrong when apprently there not because it works and lays hard and drags hard as well and has been for 5-6 years now and the current owner still running strong to this day
11-30-2005, 11:37 PM
#46
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 184
Sorry im not bickering with you anymore..
Simply put Right or Wrong the systems I have used on my truck has prooven itself with no troubles or issues so if its the wrong way then so be it.. Do you know how many type of rear s10 suspension there is? So whos to says whats right and wrong.. they all work and all have reprecussions and everyone with air ride is taking that chance of failure especially doing something custom versus a bolt on mod.
Opinions are one thing but please dont come on here saying my ways are wrong when apprently there not because it works and lays hard and drags hard as well and has been for 5-6 years now and the current owner still running strong to this day
My f/b setup works perfectly for what i use it for. It corners hard (for an xb) handles smooth (for an xb) and keeps me safe. Sure, it would be nice to upgrade so i have more adjustablity, but for the little money it costs, i would prefer to fix my fenders, smooth the hatch, or do some other work on the xb.
Like I said earlier, If I need a car that handles Ill pull out my SM2 86 mr2 and play in that. Cause i mean, obviously, i have no idea what im doin with suspension since im running 4 valves.
11-30-2005, 11:45 PM
#47
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Location: Macon, GA
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Originally Posted by wombat
Sorry im not bickering with you anymore..
Simply put Right or Wrong the systems I have used on my truck has prooven itself with no troubles or issues so if its the wrong way then so be it.. Do you know how many type of rear s10 suspension there is? So whos to says whats right and wrong.. they all work and all have reprecussions and everyone with air ride is taking that chance of failure especially doing something custom versus a bolt on mod.
Opinions are one thing but please dont come on here saying my ways are wrong when apprently there not because it works and lays hard and drags hard as well and has been for 5-6 years now and the current owner still running strong to this day
My f/b setup works perfectly for what i use it for. It corners hard (for an xb) handles smooth (for an xb) and keeps me safe. Sure, it would be nice to upgrade so i have more adjustablity, but for the little money it costs, i would prefer to fix my fenders, smooth the hatch, or do some other work on the xb.
Like I said earlier, If I need a car that handles Ill pull out my SM2 86 mr2 and play in that. Cause i mean, obviously, i have no idea what im doin with suspension since im running 4 valves.
yeah im thinking of going to 4 valves so i can be ghetto with my install ya know 
11-30-2005, 11:49 PM
#48
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 184
I just want to keep 4valves for the "corners game!" It makes it that much more interesting when the air shifts from one side to the other and throws the xB off the road! Those guys on the outside won't know what hits them!
12-01-2005, 12:37 AM
#50
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 134
4 valves may not be "ghetto" but it is most definatley a 'cut corner'.
4 valves=$150
couple of extra fittings=$20
airline=$2
having a suspension that behaves close to stock under braking, cornering and evasive manuevers= PRICELESS.....
4 valves=$150
couple of extra fittings=$20
airline=$2
having a suspension that behaves close to stock under braking, cornering and evasive manuevers= PRICELESS.....
12-01-2005, 04:11 AM
#54
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you can have FBSS with only 4 valves! they would have to be 2way valves, but there would only be 4
if i was to redo my set up, i would use 4 2way valves! but thats just me!
I have 8 valves, and i leave mine sitting side-side pretty offten while i'm at work. my rear doors shut/open with no problems.
4 valves is just silly in my mind! when i raise the back end of my xb up (with the rear -up switch), the pass. side fills faster than the driver side! so if i only had 4 valves, I wouldn't be able to independitly adjust each corner, and i would be driving all lop sided in the rear! the air doesn't enter each bag at the same time so they fill a diffrent speeds. However, if i put 60psi in both rear bags, the air exits the bags at the same time, leaving them equal when i let...say....30psi out of them. I drive with 80psi in the front, and 30psi in the rear (incase anyone was wondering).
and on the air transfer topic... i have only had 8 valves on my ride, so i can't say yay or nay.
if i was to redo my set up, i would use 4 2way valves! but thats just me!
I have 8 valves, and i leave mine sitting side-side pretty offten while i'm at work. my rear doors shut/open with no problems.
4 valves is just silly in my mind! when i raise the back end of my xb up (with the rear -up switch), the pass. side fills faster than the driver side! so if i only had 4 valves, I wouldn't be able to independitly adjust each corner, and i would be driving all lop sided in the rear! the air doesn't enter each bag at the same time so they fill a diffrent speeds. However, if i put 60psi in both rear bags, the air exits the bags at the same time, leaving them equal when i let...say....30psi out of them. I drive with 80psi in the front, and 30psi in the rear (incase anyone was wondering).
and on the air transfer topic... i have only had 8 valves on my ride, so i can't say yay or nay.
12-01-2005, 04:16 AM
#55
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What I dont understand is why do people think a Reverse 4 link is unsafe or dangerous..
That myth was busted along time ago. Cando even sells a bolt on reverse 4 link for minis
You can easily get huge amounts of lift off this set up and maintain one awesome ride quality with it..
I mean for real just because some people cant get it to work years ago doesnt mean it has to be bad for everyone.
If the install is done right it will perform and continue to and my old s10 has proven that so dont tell me its the "wrong way to do it"
That myth was busted along time ago. Cando even sells a bolt on reverse 4 link for minis
You can easily get huge amounts of lift off this set up and maintain one awesome ride quality with it..
I mean for real just because some people cant get it to work years ago doesnt mean it has to be bad for everyone.
If the install is done right it will perform and continue to and my old s10 has proven that so dont tell me its the "wrong way to do it"
12-01-2005, 06:11 AM
#56
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sciondrgn - damn that sux that ur box is 'in the shop' but then again, there are some nice things that can come of it. as for speed reducers, 99cent brass plugs with inset allen keyholes work well when you drill them out (thats what i did for the longest time, though now i'll try something different...pics will be up soon)
rt20's, - you've had some good info, i dont take your feedback as jerkish, but it's a bit far to go as to say i dont know anything about this topic, we'd have to compare notes before you say something like that. as for "(What do you think keeps the pressurized air in your tank from filling your air bags? The only time you would see air transfer from the bag to the tank is if you energized a fill valve who's airbag had more pressure than the supply side of the valve.)" that you said, try draining your tank with your bags fully filled (use the drain/aux valve) if your bags go flat too, then your solenoids leak. (just a little, and under quite a bit of 'reverse' pressure. i may not use the terms you're used to; but i definately know what im talking about. ask anyone on the west coast that has talked to me personally, or even online.
the info is pretty good up here, not much to do with xb's anymore tho; but im learning some new info
rt20's, - you've had some good info, i dont take your feedback as jerkish, but it's a bit far to go as to say i dont know anything about this topic, we'd have to compare notes before you say something like that. as for "(What do you think keeps the pressurized air in your tank from filling your air bags? The only time you would see air transfer from the bag to the tank is if you energized a fill valve who's airbag had more pressure than the supply side of the valve.)" that you said, try draining your tank with your bags fully filled (use the drain/aux valve) if your bags go flat too, then your solenoids leak. (just a little, and under quite a bit of 'reverse' pressure. i may not use the terms you're used to; but i definately know what im talking about. ask anyone on the west coast that has talked to me personally, or even online.
the info is pretty good up here, not much to do with xb's anymore tho; but im learning some new info
12-01-2005, 03:50 PM
#57
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Join Date: May 2005
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Originally Posted by sciondrgn
What I dont understand is why do people think a Reverse 4 link is unsafe or dangerous..
That myth was busted along time ago. Cando even sells a bolt on reverse 4 link for minis
You can easily get huge amounts of lift off this set up and maintain one awesome ride quality with it..
I mean for real just because some people cant get it to work years ago doesnt mean it has to be bad for everyone.
If the install is done right it will perform and continue to and my old s10 has proven that so dont tell me its the "wrong way to do it"
That myth was busted along time ago. Cando even sells a bolt on reverse 4 link for minis
You can easily get huge amounts of lift off this set up and maintain one awesome ride quality with it..
I mean for real just because some people cant get it to work years ago doesnt mean it has to be bad for everyone.
If the install is done right it will perform and continue to and my old s10 has proven that so dont tell me its the "wrong way to do it"
12-01-2005, 03:58 PM
#58
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Macon, GA
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Originally Posted by hamads
Originally Posted by sciondrgn
What I dont understand is why do people think a Reverse 4 link is unsafe or dangerous..
That myth was busted along time ago. Cando even sells a bolt on reverse 4 link for minis
You can easily get huge amounts of lift off this set up and maintain one awesome ride quality with it..
I mean for real just because some people cant get it to work years ago doesnt mean it has to be bad for everyone.
If the install is done right it will perform and continue to and my old s10 has proven that so dont tell me its the "wrong way to do it"
That myth was busted along time ago. Cando even sells a bolt on reverse 4 link for minis
You can easily get huge amounts of lift off this set up and maintain one awesome ride quality with it..
I mean for real just because some people cant get it to work years ago doesnt mean it has to be bad for everyone.
If the install is done right it will perform and continue to and my old s10 has proven that so dont tell me its the "wrong way to do it"
I could easily get 10-12 inches of lift of that same exact set up.
As long as its done right. Its safe and last for a long time..
5-6 years to be exact...
12-01-2005, 04:22 PM
#59
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,066
Originally Posted by sciondrgn
Do you know how many type of rear s10 suspension there is? So whos to says whats right and wrong.
Originally Posted by sciondrgn
they all work and all have reprecussions and everyone with air ride is taking that chance of failure especially doing something custom versus a bolt on mod.
Originally Posted by sciondrgn
Opinions are one thing but please dont come on here saying my ways are wrong when apprently there not because it works and lays hard and drags hard as well and has been for 5-6 years now and the current owner still running strong to this day
12-01-2005, 04:28 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by RTon20s
Originally Posted by sciondrgn
Do you know how many type of rear s10 suspension there is? So whos to says whats right and wrong.
Originally Posted by sciondrgn
they all work and all have reprecussions and everyone with air ride is taking that chance of failure especially doing something custom versus a bolt on mod.
Originally Posted by sciondrgn
Opinions are one thing but please dont come on here saying my ways are wrong when apprently there not because it works and lays hard and drags hard as well and has been for 5-6 years now and the current owner still running strong to this day
Heres a question then instead of ranting on how Ive done my truck in the past why dont you actually put some useful information in there and explain how you would have done it? Not once have you said "the correct" way as you put it.
We all know that any form of modified suspension is going outside of the factory specs of a vehicle and we all take a chance regardless of which way its done