FModFTD

So do all new cars have knock sensors these days? I was impressed when I found out my new '95 Neon had it. I guess it's old technology now.

hayalex6

LOL!!

zeorai

I must be missing something here, but when the the ECU backs off it's usually running rich, which makes it really rather hard to ping. Most motors run slightly rich to protect the engine, Toyota's in general tend to run a bit richer, from my research, than the other manufacturers.

If you want to run 93, best we can get in CA is 91, I saw say go for it. But at $3+/gal that's pretty rough! I get 34 mpg on 87. I'm pretty happy with that.

Tomas

My '83 Jeep had 'em...

xActly

I wasn't even getting into AF ratio, though that will play a part...but you don't HAVE to be lean to ping. I've been tweaking the programming in my Mustang for months trying to alleviate ping, and I'm running on the rich side. My main issue is advanced timing.

Car companies have been steadily increasing compression & advancing timing (among other things) in an effort to squeeze more power out of less displacement. They've been very successful...

...but all of the old school gearhead rules still apply - if you advance your timing, run higher octane. If you run high compression, run higher octane.

I choose to run higher octane to prevent ping from happening in the first place instead of relying on my technologically advanced car to stop the ping by retarding timing & robbing power.

zeorai

True the manufacturers have been on the hunt for more power on the cheap, no boost, so yup advancing timing and bumping CR. Most engines I see that have a CR north of 9 usually require premium, so the 1nzfe requiring only 87 seemed odd.

At the same time, why'd Toyota go with 87? Well, it's a cheap econobox and yeah all cheap econoboxes run 87. I'd like to see how much the knock sensor is picking up...Well, I don't have practical experience in the matter, just theory, so I'd like to know more myself. Afterall I'd like to keep the xA in good form.

chucksu

It goes on more then just CR to determine fuel needs. It has to do with how big the cylinders are, how much fuel is put in, when the spark goes off etc... This is a some what bad example, but the kawasaki ninja 250R has a CR of 12:1 & runs fine on 87. So it is possible. I think it should be tested on a dyno to see if 89 would offer any gains over 87, or if the engine is really not knocking with the low octane.

jct

also thats why they have knock sensors

going slightly off topic

my work truck(92 chevy) "had" a knock sensor on it (its still there but the plug and wire just disappeared) it runs fine with out it but when i have a load on it 4000 lbs of water and when i step on it, it pings like crazy untill the cel comes on and after that it stops pinging how sweet is that

and thats on 87 octane too

xActly

Disconnect your knock sensor & let us know what you come up with.

comedykills

I would like to see Toyota jump back on the super car market with Nissan. When Toyota removed the Supra from their lots I think it was the worst thing they could have done. It would be awsome if Scion came out with a car to compete w/ the likes of the 350z and the z4 and all the other nice showroom performance cars. I would be the first in line for that one. I know its off topic but wouldnt it be sick like a slicked out xA convertable...... aw the sexxxxyness

Kurenai

Hmm, I'm an Altima fanboy so...yeah.

But the Altima has .5 liters on that thing=more weight. It's bigger than a camry=more weight. So I'd imagine it'd be close(Altima also has the best V6 around, but we all know that)

jwa276

yeah, one could argue nissan has had pretty much the best overall motors (for performance that is)... their brand is a lot more performance oriented in the first place at least nowadays. i would still say that toyota has them in reliability, but for people who wanna go... nissan is a great choice.

i would like to see what toyota could do if they tried to go for more performance down the line. they would lose some of their reliability ratings, but im sure sales would skyrocket among the gen-x'ers because everyone knows we love to drive fast!

-jon

punxnotdead

So....could there possibly be a class action lawsuit against Toyota for false advertisement? I bought an 05 and would like to get what I "paid" for.

Come on everybody,let's sue Toyota and get our 5 horsies back.

Tomas

Toyota used the same methods almost all the other manufacturers used - it was considered 'industry best practice' until the SAE changed the methods THEY required. No "cheating" or "false advertising" by Toyota in this - they were following the previous standard, along with most everyone else.

When the SAE tightened up their requirements, changes appeared in 'advertised' power, but those changes are in the 'special case' numbers that USED to be reported in advertising by using specially tuned engines running super fuels and no "accessories."

What the SAE is requiring now is that the engines be run with all their normal loads attached and with the tuning, fuel, and lubricants recommended in the manual.

This is ZERO changes to the engine, only changes in the rules they have been tested under for years.

No class action 'cause.'

punxnotdead

But isn't it true that only Toyota and Honda are now using this "new" method?

djct_watt

Yeah. . . I'm too lazy to search, but I know those numbers are off. . . the Altima is NOT within .3 seconds of a Camry. . . I've driven both, and looked at the stats. The only figure I know by heart is the Altima's, and it's not really a fair comparison stat either, but I DO know that the 3.5SE manual runs a 5.9 second 0-60. The Lexus LS430 barely does that, let alone the camry. Even in auto form, I highly highly doubt the Camry comes close. . . unless you compare the slowest time ever posted for an Altima with the fastest time for a Camry. Don't quote me on this, but I could have sworn that the Camry posts low 16's, and the Altima posts low 15's, and even into the 14's. That's a hefty difference.

emiller

Everybody has to use the "new" method. Any new or modified engine that you will retest uses the new method. The only reason you dont is if its an old unmodified engine or has no performance changes then you dont need to retest it. It just happens that Toyota and Honda hp rating dropped more than some others. The new Corvette Z06 got 5 more hp and the supercharged Northstar picked up about 30. A few of their cars also went down too.