TokyoRaver

Wow.. I am really freakin glad I saw this post. I live in Daytona Beach, FL.. and I already ordered a black xB from Daytona Toyota/Scion. The Documentation Fee here is $599!! But I looked at Roundtree's site, and it appears they don't have a documentation fee?

A couple of questions.. If I already ordered the xB from DB Scion (it's due to be here any day now), and signed the order form, is it too late for me to back out and get my xB through Roundtree? a 2 1/2 hour drive to pick up the ride is DEFINITELY worth $600! Also, how much of a hassle will it be to get my deposit ($500) from Daytona Scion?

OR.. would it be possible to negotiate on Daytona's Documentation fee, even though I already placed the order.. tell them I will go somewhere else unless they lower that fee a LOT?

This is my first time buying a car.. my last car was given to me by my grandfather when he passed away.

rcstprez

For what it is worth..I 'ordered' mine through Rountree, and did not even have to leave a deposit. Deposits are refundable. I tried talking my local dealers out of the fee, and they wouldn't budge. So, I made the drive. I was buying a xB, and obviously the local guy didn't want to make the deal..

I say go get your deposit back (they will sell the one you are waiting on, no problem), and call: Kris Summerlin @ Rountree. She'll be honest with you, and let you know what kind of time frame is involved. It took her exactly 2 weeks from the day I told her what I wanted to the day I was driving it home. Tell her Matt B sent you (no I dont get kick back..I just told her I would send people her way, and I want to show that I am doing that). Good luck

Matt B

TokyoRaver

I went back to Daytona Beach Scion to ask what was up with the fee... the guy I dealt with before wasn't there today, so I asked for another scion rep. Some guy walked up, and I asked him (very politely) about taking the $600 fee off. He told me to sit down while he asked another dealer there. He send some other guy over, and this guy was definitely their "bad cop" dealer. He said very rudely and loudly that he cannot take the fee off. When I told him, "OK, then I need my deposit back" he started going crazy. He told me he can't give me the refund, I have to come back tomorrow and get the refund from the guy I originally dealt with. Then he starts telling other people (very loudly), "I can't believe this guy is reopening negotiations!!" He treated me like some scumbag, like I was doing something totally against business ethics. But isn't hiding some FU#$KING $600 fee in a supposedly non-negotiable car bad business ethics??! To hell with Daytona Beach Scion... when I go back there tomorrow I am not leaving until I get my deposit back, and I am definitely getting this guys name, so I can complain to his bosses bosses boss.
Word of mouth is the best form of advertising, and I guarantee that DB Scion will be getting MUCH bad publicity for this crap.

whatever... thanks a ton for the info.. i'm definitely hitting up Rountree Scion.

hey Matt.. what you do in Jax? I go up there a weekend a month for my Reserve duty..

rcstprez

http://www.rcst.com

MattB

TheDanger

Congrats on the new xB...im about to buy mine soon but after reading this I might change my dealership choice...So Kieth Pierson was trying to charge you $700?? Also if you want more details on how to meet up with more Scions pm we are having a meet this Friday.

George

"Shouldn't" doesn't go very far in the real world. When I was looking for my xB, I asked two dealers' salesmen point-blank if they had a documentation fee. They hemmed and hawed and tried to change the subject. The Germans weren't as tenacious with the Enigma code as these salesmen were with keeping their documentation fees hidden! The only posting of charges I saw in any Scion showroom was the window stickers which obviously didn't mention any fees.

It seems that the nature of "pure pricing" is quite flexible. Scion would surely like everyone to think that the same price is charged to all customers!

If it isn't, I'd like to know what other effect it has! Any time the state has to cap a fee, it's a sure indication that the fees were being abused prior to the state regulation.

That statement is so silly I'm surprised you made it. Virtually every car deal is different and there's no basis for a lawsuit simply because they differ. If you charged a fee because of the ethnicity of the customer, you might have a point, but that isn't the case here.

Oddly enough, many lenders don't charge closing fees these days and feature this prominently in their advertising! They figured out that customers don't like it.

The "everybody's charging fees" argument is weak, because such fees are limited to only a couple of fields. If I buy a TV, computer, groceries, gasoline, jewelry, amateur radio gear, etc. the sellers don't try to up the price with fees after the price is negotiated. Why should certain auto dealers have to charge a fee and others not? To obtain more "Pure Profit", of course!

rcstprez

No, KPierson was $499, Coggin Avenues was $399. K.Pierson wouldn't budge, so I went to lake city. I have been to the meet once by Zaxby's. This friday is my truck club's monthly meeting, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to get there.

MattB

xbchance

Doc fee for me out here in LA was $45.
Despite anyone's opinions that fees are Cost of doing business, bottom line is it's just added in. They could add it to the price of the car and hide it but it's easier for me to brush it off as it's an ok, almost understandable 45. But $700? That's just gouging, pure and simple. :twisted:

George

Actually, they can't "just add it to the price of the car" as the advertised MSRP is not determined by the dealer. The fixed "pure" MSRP includes a reasonable profit for the dealer and the dealer's expenses are supposed to come out of that profit.

Toyota tried very hard to make sure that all customers are treated alike and the price of a popular new model wouldn't be inflated (like the PT Cruiser, Odyssey, etc.) but it is obvious that some dealers are evading this intent.

The only reason to charge junk fees is to raise the price after the price has been agreed on by the customer and dealer. This is deception and customers shouldn't stand for it.

Our local Honda dealer is a lot more honest about junk fees. They add a sticker to the window on Odysseys with the line item "Additional Dealer Profit". At least they tell the customer up front that they will be gouged!

George

JASciON

If you want to know the truth the dealer does set the price. Most just keep it at MSRP because why would you want to go over when the dealer down the street will have it at MSRP. But some dealers do have it over like(look at the accessory prices)http://carsonscion.com/html/carsonmenu.html and there are dealers near me that actually made some of their accessory prices lower. I've been through alot of Scion training and they will tell you. Selling Price=Posted Price or Menu Price
Meaning that the price the dealer sells it at can be whatever they want as long as it's posted in the dealership and on their price menu on their web site. And all the accessories that they offer are supposed to be posted on their web site and in their showroom. And i've seen alot of the web sites and alot of them don't show everything that they offer.

Scion05hatch

I am dealing with Chris Summerlin NOW. Rountree is 198 miles from my house. The 2 local dealers here have screwed around with me and I refuse to buy from them now. Chris has been very helpful thus far and said my xB will arrive at rountree Monday. I was required today to give a $1,000 deposit (I'm putting down more) but the card will not be charged until I arrive at the dealership for pick-up. I hope the service continues all the way through as it has so far. I've got to ask her if there is a better rate for me than the 6.95% with Toyota though. If not, no biggie. 5k is being transferred the first month to a 0% balance transfer rate on a credit card.

underESTIMATED

Bump.

I'm very glad that this thread has been posted, now I'm alot more familiar with how things worked out poorly for some, and in some cases worked out better for others.

Here in Ohio, a certain dealer charges $100. I have to call 45 miles away, and check what they are charging now. Thank to this post, now I'm curious.

:D


Great read/thread.

Dave

raiden1200

bB2NER

Prolly cause some dealers have higher overhead. Someone has to pay for those large luxurious buildings. Scions do not have a very high profit margine to begin with so some dealers are trying to make a quick buck and don't worry about future business from you. The ones with the lower dock fees are more interested in your future business.

GEO

A little of topic but I once had a dealer who tried to charge me a destination fee and the car was on the lot already.

bB2NER

Most domestic dealers have the destination charges right on the sticker. They vary by make and model. Usually the more expensive the vehicle the higher the destination/delivery fee is.

farscape7

My dealer wanted 35 for doc fees. i told them that since they never disclosed this fee i wasnt going to pay. They gave in. A small victory. But a victory is still sweet when you have them give in to you after they say "everybody pays this fee". Well, not anymore they don't.

George

Wow! 2-1/2 years dormant and the thread jumps back to life! Old threads never die!

pollock3s

Pure pricing?? What a joke. I had several (4) dealers pulling at my arms and feet trying to sell me the xB. I got out of of the dealer for $16,358 out the door pricing on my RS4. I think that was a good deal for me.

jamesgang

I typically do not trade cars. However, I was told - when shopping for my 05 xB - if I was to trade, the first dealer to 'cut a deal' would record the vin and all dealers would have to honor the quote (no more - no less). I didn't give it much thought as, again, my cars are typically wore out before replaced.