headdead

What follows is my original post outlining clutch failure on the Xb:

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject: Xb premature clutch failure

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The wife picked up a new 2005 Xb 5-speed last month here in the Detroit suburbs. She seemed pretty pleased with it (although I have a moderatly long list of coomplaints I may post if I decide it's constructive rather than bithy...) Anyway, last Friday she was left stranded on the Southfield Freeway when her clutch/transmission began smoking, lost power, and would not shift into 1st after she pulled over.

It was towed to the selling dealer, who immediatly questioned my wife's driving abilities, trying to distance Toyota from any warranty liability.

The car has 1480 miles on it (that's fourteen HUNDRED eighty)

As it stands now, they made me authorize $475 to diagnose the problem. As of this afternoon they deny warranty coverage claiming the clutch is a normal wear item analagous to brake pads. Tomorrow, after the $475 tear-down, they will formally decide if it's a warranty repair or if I get to pay. They estimate 3 weeks to get parts...

BTW, my wife is a car enthusiast (I drive the Aztek) but she's outgrown her boy racer days. She's smart (Phd UofM engineering) and she knows how to drive a stick (look at what else she drives) Previous cars included VW beetle, Toyota 5 speed pick-up,, and the best car ever made, the original 1983 VW GTI. The Jetta and 911 are both 5-speeds. None have ever needed so much as a clutch adjustment,

I'm not looking for sympathy or criticism (and yes, I know my spelling suks) but I would like to know if anyone has had what I consider premature clutch failure . I'd also appreciate any help/advice in dealing with Toyota's warranty people.
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THansenite

That sucks. I don't see how they can say it is "normal wear and tear" after under 1500 miles. That falls under "premature failure" in my opinion. Even if you didn't use the clutch pedal at all, a manual transmission would last over 1500 miles in a new vehicle. Good luck with getting the box running again.

headdead

Here's the followup:
In a nutshell, Suburban Toyota in Troy, MI treated my wife very poorly. They blamed her for the failure, insulted her driving abilities and denied any responibility.
The regional customer service rep was even worse, seldom returning phone calls and simply reiterating the company line of "normal wear." They never explained, or even tried to explain, how they could determine the failure was from driver input/error and not a defect with the clutch.
The bill came to $1594 because the clutch pressure plate, throwout bearing, flywheel and rear main seal were all damaged when the clutch failed. Since it would be stupid to install the same clutch that failed after 1400 miles, I had them install a TRD clutch, for which I paid retail. Toyota provided a rental car (as per the warranty) but told her she would have to pay for it. The car was in the shop about 3 weeks.
I paid the bill.

My wife contacted a national dispute resolution center (see your Toyota owners manual for details) and outined the problem in a short letter. I told her not to get her hopes up, but surprise, surprise, the mediator decided the case in our favor.

Toyota was ordered to refund the entire cost of the repair (including rental charges) because they were unable to show that the failure was not the result of bad material or workmanship.

If you believe, honestly, that Toyota is responsible and should stand behind their warranty, don't settle for the dealer's or regional service rep's decision. A polite, accurate letter to the mediator may work for you as well.

It's really sad that Toyota forced us to endure 2 months of bitter confrontation in order to get a fair resolution. I will obviously never buy another Toyota product again.

IaMVinhamese

yeah the key word is POLITE and it sucks to hear you wont ever get a toyota again. all it takes is one screw up and anyone will lose customers. toyota never gave my parents or me any problems.

chumba

obviously theres two sides to this story. but from what you posted it seams this dealership should be reported to nation toyota. Im a former dealership employee not toyota but know how to treat customers when it comes to new vehicles and warrenty reapairs. SHops hate doing warrenty it costs the dealership money and the technicians do nothing but _____ baout it b/c they are on flate rate and warrentty pays significantly less then custermor pay. This soudns as if the dealership just didnt want to deal with you and prefered to make you pay.. It could have been the whole initial female customer issue.. sad as it sounds this still exists out here in the industry.. Ive left several jobs due to unfair employee treatment. Now as for my scion.. Anytime i had a problem when my car was under 5k they serveiced and diagnoses under warrenty.. that included even normal wear and tear items like my wiper blads which broke under 1k. I had 2 free alignments and a new clutch hydrolic system put in. the clutch hydrolic faliar was partialy my fault as i lowered it down ona jack stand doing a rotate i told them this and they were able to work with me on it.. i ended up paying only 25% parts.

superjeer

I'm glad you got justice. If I were you, I'd never buy Toyota again either. Dealers/service are almost all the same, but the regional service rep's suprises me, but not really.

THansenite

Glad everything worked out. Don't let one bad apple ruin the bunch though.

Blackbelt

I thought that even "wear" items were covered for 12/12.

Metro273

I work for a Nissan dealership and we have an issue with the '03 and some early '04 clutches on the 350Z going out early, before 15K miles and we warranty it...
Why shouldn't Toyota...

wibblywobbly

That is total BS and I don't blame you for never buying another Toyota product again. For whatever reason the dealer was out to screw you. They must have just been audited by Toyota or something because under normal circumstances they would have replaced the clutch and then billed it back to Toyota.
Warranty work is a game. Dealers routinely over-bill the manufacturer for warranty work and the manufacturer is always trying to clamp down on the dealers for doing unnecessary work. You probably had the misfortune of your car breaking at the wrong time of month.

DavesX

I'll bet you and I are the only xB-911 owners in the state, I have an 87. I think you were treated poorly but the end result was in your favor. I had to have an alignment at LaFontaine after the first week, while I sat in the waiting room I watched the service writer just TOTALLY rip people off on car repair. They were replacing things that should last 100,000 miles or more on vehicles with only 40,000 miles. I spoke up and told these customers to take their cars somewhere else because they were getting totally rippped off, which they did. I just couldn't belive what they were doing. I hate these kind of dealers and they should be shot.

hotbox05

congrats on getting it fixed for free. but it will happen again. it's not a defect it's a poorly thought out clutch package

they used the parts from an echo.

a 300 or so pound lighter vehicle , with less aggressive gears and hardly ever modded.

put the same clutch in the heavier , more aggressively geared xB and bam, failure.


the pressure plate is the culprit....

i'm getting my SPEC stage 2+ put in tomorrow.

my clutch was slipping upon hard accell at 5k miles. and now at 35k is almost dead.

oh and you weren't treated poorly. that is standard practice when people want clutches replaced by a dealer.

in 99% of cars it is the driver. and when a clutch is worn down it looks as tho it was abused. as well as most techs can't differentiate the reasons the clutch is dead from looking at it.

vintage42

Where did you get that new clutch, what did it cost, who is going to put it in, and what wil they charge?

I am thinking of changing my MT xB which is due here next week, from MT to AT.

hotbox05

ha ha haha , if only. dealers and manufacturers would go broke.

hotbox05

My buddy owns a shop so... I got the clutch for 340 shipped , regular price is about 415 shipped

install is 275 , most other shops have quoted me at 350-400


he bought it straight from SPEC

it will not be worth the time and energy involved for anyone to swap from manual to automatic. trade it in on a new one. worst case you'll owe a few hundred dollars more. cheaper , quicker , easier.

vintage42

What is SPEC? I would swap cars, not transmissons. The dealer says my xB is still somewhere between the West Coast and KY.

hotbox05

once the car comes in just say you'd rather have another car. they will work for you , you may have to wait but you will get what you want. it's their job.


spec is an aftermarket clutch company. the clutch I ordered is a race clutch.

here is their site.

http://specclutch.com/

p2filz

ive been seeing this alot, toyota seems to be goin cheap with the manual trannies i may start to sway toward honda if ths continues, seeing as honda has made engines and trannies very well and have never really had problems with their clutches! i hope they fix it soon cuz i do like toyota more than honda, but honda is appetizing at this point seeing as the civic was rated car of the year for all versions!

bB2NER

That would be a wise move my friend. Heck the money you save on not having to replace the first clutch will pay for the auto.
At first I really wanted a stick and now I realize I made a good choice with the auto.

hotbox05

the mt is much more responsive and faster . if that matters to ya.