gp125racer

All,

So we rented an xb over the weekend. Its a really nice car. We just cant decide between the xb and the Honda Element.

Weve put about 400 miles on the car in 2 days. Fits the family well, but seems a bit on the smallish side coming from a minivan.

One of our favorite things about the xb is how 'sporty' it feels on the road. Reminds me of my old mazda miata ... seriously.

On our ride last night, we turned down a road that wed never been down before and low and behold it was all eroded gravel The car did suprisingly well at about 20mph, but i wouldnt want to take it any faster than that as it was rattling pretty good. When we went to turn around, as I backed up I scraped up against a metal road marker (good thing I bought that insurance). Keep in mind I was moving aprox. 2 or 3 mph, as i was on the brakes coming to the point in which I intended to stop. I didnt even feel the bump, but my wife did, I just heard the scratch.

Once we got back into civilization I stopped so we coould look at the damage which I assumed would be very very minor as Im used to our dodge caravan handling such minor incidents EXTREMELY WELL. Much to my suprise the the lower bumper had a small chunk taken out of it, and DEEP scratches just above it. Now the damage was over a very small area but Im very suprised at the amount of damage incurred by such a minor incident. Makes me think that I dont wanna even take it to parking lot in fear of getting massive door dings.

How does the xb hold up to your daily punishment? Im not thinking reliability here, its a toyota, I dont question that at all. Im looking for what kind of damage the shopping cart did to your car, rocks hitting the hood etc etc. Were looking for something I can drive daily for the next 5ish years with my family and sometimes dog(s) in the car. I drive about 125 miles a day.

Sorry for the long winded post its much longer than I intended.

-=gp125racer=-

jct

rocks can crack the windshild thats a downer right there...

ggguy77

"I assumed would be very very minor as Im used to our dodge caravan handling such minor incidents EXTREMELY WELL"

If you have a lot of "minor incidents" I might suggest a truck instead of a Scion.



I don't wanna see you hurt another Scion.

salteen

that's some funny stuff

The xBs suck when it comes to small incidents...I know because I demolished my driver side skirt after scraping a curb (didn't even feel it) but I did a number on it and had to replace it because they wanted near 400 bucks to fix it at a body shop.

ggguy77

Oh yeah, and if you still have a guilty concience for damaging a Scion, you can get your penance by donating to the Scionlife Toy Drive

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=143341

evosky

yeah little incidents really do scratch and scrape up your body panels. it's a downside that we can't get away from. also as mentioned above, the windshield is very vulnerable to cracking from rocks and pebbles. umm .... oh yeah, paint is easily scratched from everything. make sure you wax a decent amount, i'd say at bare minimum of once every 2 or 3 months (i wash & wax at least every 3 or 4 weeks). if you're driving 125 miles a day, be ready to be very careful while driving.
cheers.

hotbox05

plastic ,it ain't that strong. NORMAL

rdclark

Just keep in mind that while the Element may look big, it's payload rating is more than 100 pounds less than the xB. It's possible to put four adult humans into an Element and exceed the load capacity, even without luggage. (675lb/4=168lb per person.)

And the fuel economy is awful. Between the much higher initial cost and the pitiful gas mileage, the Element is a much more expensive car to own.

As a minivan owner, I can understand a family finding the xB too small for an only car. We used to have a Caravan (worst... car... ever) and anything would be an improvement, but we've had two Mazda minivans that are both outstandingly reliable and fun to drive.

Have you looked at the Mazda5? I'd take that over an Element in a heartbeat; for about the same money and fuel economy you get six seats, a quieter and better-handling car, and a better level of standard equipment.

Not having a bunch of kids at home any more, though, I wouldn't trade my xB for anything. But you have to remember what it is: mechanically, it's a Yaris/Echo, an economy platform designed for low cost and bulletproof reliability. It's a city car. The plastic exterior trim on the outside is there for styling, not to protect anything.

RichC

bB2NER

What is your point. It sounds like a bunch of whining and drivel. From the way you treated that poor xB rental I can see you don't deserve an xB. The poor thing would be trashed in less than 6 months. Please buy the Element and save the last few xB's for people that will take care and love them for what they are and not for what you would expect out of it. In other words : You are Not a Scion kind of Person. There is another one of you close to where I live and that poor BCP xB almost makes me cry everytime I see the new carnage caused by her.

gp125racer

Agreed plastic is flimsy, and it breaking is NORMAL, just too bad that I feel my minivan is sturdier then the XB.

As for the element being able to carry less load, Id be willing to guess its because of the overall vehicle height difference. I dont think with the whole family and the dogs were any where near either of the vehicles weight limit tho.

The element has WAY more interior room tho, the cargo area compared to the scions ... welp you cant even compare the two. Tradeoff there is no fifth seat for my daughters friends. Gas mileage is worse (22- 27) agreed, but thats to be expected from a larger displacement engine and heavier vehicle.

Im really leaning towards the scion, but its rough knowing that the car I/we expect to drive daily is not as rugged as wed like it to be.

Jethro, thanks for the positive feedback. Who else is part of your elitist scion xb club, so I can make sure to block messages from them too

Thanks everyone for helping us make an informed decision.
-=gp125racer=-

ZOMGXB

ummmmmmm this guy has all sorts of accidents and you want him to get a BIGGER car? WE DRIVE CARDBOARD BOXES, MAN, ARE YOU TRYING TO GET US ALL KILLED?! sorry, gpracer, gguy77 meant to say you should buy a Mini Cooper...teehee

Ah, a better suggestion might be: if you're used to this sort of incident, maybe you should be letting the wife drive. ;)

Or the kids. Or the DOG!

No, seriously, in my experience, the toaster is and is not good at handling minor incidents. On the one hand, my sister backed into it - in the driveway - at about 3 miles an hour, and I'm currently shopping for a new front bumper. On the other hand, I had a piece of road debris fly up and slam into my headlight at 75 MPH, and all it did was some major scratching.

And then, of course, there's the new dance move: the Scion Shuffle. That's where you walk around your car every few weeks and snap all the parts back in - the rear bumper, those little things under the foglights (assuming they're still attached), and all that fun stuff.

I was on the fence between the Element and the xB, too, and I'm sure I made the right decision. The Element only LOOKS bigger - we have more headroom. Basically, all you get for your trouble (and thousands of dollars) is a bigger cargo bay. Mind you, that might be the dealbreaker for you - if you need to carry people AND cargo. You might want to trade your Labrador in for a Yorkie-Poo, however, because the Element can carry less weight. So you can carry cargo, provided all you're hauling around is styrafoam peanuts.

The mileage is horrendous, too, and when you factor in how FREAKISHLY MUCH you personally drive on a daily basis...I think the choice is clear.

Lastly, let's be realistic - if you're raising kids and a dog, any vehicle you purchase is going to look like total crap in three years. Even if the outside is impervious (and the Saturn Relay is the only vehicle that fits THAT bill), the inside is still going to be full of play-doh stains and milkshakes spilled into the speakers. So pick the more intelligently-designed, cheaper-to-maintain, more-reliable vehicle and don't worry about dings and scratches.

TRULY, however...I think your best bet is to NOT drive into fences. ;) And, in your case, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS get the renter's insurance!

bB2NER

Not an elitist club. An enthusiats club . You know, people who actually care about their vehicles and try to make them look BETTER or atleast maintain them.
The way you drive, you seriously need a tank not a fragile xB. Good luck with whatever you buy cause you're gonna need it.

13edge

You HAVE to expect the comments man. Hitting a road marker is NOT daily punishment! The box goes anywhere, and does anything... ask the dude from Alaska with the rally box.

I'd say get the box. I got a big Ford car with damn near 5 stars in all the crash test ratings. Only problem? Most SUVs have their bumpers a good 6-10 inches ABOVE where the damn car was rated (I actually feel safer with the ride height in the Scion) This ain't the 70's no more. Fender benders will hurt ya, in the wallet if not in the back, head, legs, etc.

Tomas

I've owned a lot of vehicles (29 at last count) and a good number of them have been very serious 4x4s - the sort that when run into by another vehicle, most of the repair work is buffing their paint off of my bumpers/winch/brushbars, etc.

The xB is a strong vehicle for it's size, but it's forté is protecting it's passengers, not itself.

Front and rear there actually are strong bumpers, but they are not visible - they have these light plastic covers over them, and those purely cosmetic covers are, well, "delicate." The xB, overall, does NOT stand up well to brush-busting, gravel-running, shopping carts, parking-by-ear, opening gates by pushing them, or even push starting your neighbor's Honda.

If you need the interior size and load capacity of a van, I'd recommend a van, not a hatch-back micro-car.

I also would not recommend the Element for a number of reasons, starting with the very minimal load capacity (nothing to do with the SPACE inside the vehicle, but with it's ability to carry WEIGHT). 675 pounds is not very much.

Another problem with the Element is the suicide doors and the attachment of the safety belts. If you have the kids in the back, and want to let them out on the non-traffic side (passenger side), SOMEONE has to open the front door so the rear will open. If there is a front seat passenger, they also need to remove their belts to open the doors. Even if you let them out on the driver's side, into traffic, you need to unfasten your belt, open the front, then the rear door. Poor design, poor engineering. Not "Family Friendly."

What would I recommend? A much heavier duty, more expensive vehicle than what you see here.

And yes, the exterior of these cars is delicate, but my daily driver that I bought nearly two years ago would not look out of place on a showroom floor. These are enthusiast's cars. We on this site are just the sort of very **** geeks who take superb care (and pride) in our vehicles. Jethro's comments weren't out of line, really, he was just the first to say it.

Hope you find a good van that suits your needs.

Take care,
Tomas

bB2NER

Thanks for having my back Tomas!
I meant what I said in a Scion Life kinda way.

rdclark

On the other hand, sturdy is as sturdy does. Our Caravan was in the shop constantly, and cost us a furtune to maintain. The xB projects to be as low-maintenance as a car can be, at least in terms of mechanical reliability.

The actual rated payload of the Element in previous model years was a pathetic 675 pounds, and many owners have confirmed that they are very disappointed that, while there's a lot of volume inside the car, it can't handle much weight. I notice that this year Honda has simply dropped the payload specification entirely; they are silent on the subject.

Which points out the fundamental issue here: the xB and the Element aren't really competing models. The xB is a subcompact station wagon. The Element is a crossover SUV. There's a reason the Element costs several thousand dollars more than the xB.

There's a tendency to compare the xB with the Element because of their boxy shapes, but in truth the Element competes with the CR/V, the RAV4, and other crossover SUVs. The xB competes with cars like the Fit, the Versa, and other subcompact 5-doors.

xB isn't an SUV, isn't designed to go off-road, isn't intended to carry heavy loads or tow trailers, and certainly isn't designed to bounce off signposts unscathed. People who are considering the xB should do so with a clear understanding of what the car is and is not.

My problem with the Element is that it *is* marketed as a versatile cargo hauler, and Honda's apparent attempt to hide its puny payload rating is very close to outright deception.

RichC

whatulookinat

You are getting a lot of good information here, although you may not see it that way sometimes! I have a xB('06) and a Odyssey Touring,('06) along with two kids and a big dog. The Odyssey's plastic everything scratches if you just look at it no matter how hard I try to keep it looking good. The xB has held up extremely well in comparison and I have very small parking dings on the back bumper that are hard to see and not much else after one year. Everyone in my family(including the dog) loves the box and we use both the box and Odyssey interchangably. I actually like driving the box better because as you say it is more of a "drivers car" than a lot of other vehicles on the road, including the Odyssey tank.

If you put a lot of miles on, then get one of these. They are awesome, quick around town and get fantastic mileage. With my iPod hooked up I could drive all day!

cherryBox

I assure you that not everyone on this site is as rude as this person. he just has nothing better to do.

I personally bought the scion as a project car, not as a daily driver, and it is a somewhat fragile car. In my mind there would be no distinction between an 'incident' and a 'minor incident' as far as this car goes.

rdclark

Me, I *did* buy my xB as a daily driver. I commute in it, and on weekends we more often drive it for shopping etc than we do the minivan. I'm not interested in customizing the car particularly. I bought it because it's so practical, frugal, and comfortable.

I certainly don't think there should be some sort of qualification test before you're allowed to buy an xB. You're buying a car, not adopting a baby.

My interest is in helping make sure people buy xB's who understand what they are, so they don't turn around and start badmouthing them because they're too slow, too weak, or too small, or can't wade rivers or climb rocky slopes. Anybody buying a car needs to have their eyes wide open.

RichC

gp125racer

and i guess its true.

I had the wife drive the car some more this morning, shes in love I think. Should i be jealous? LOL

I think well be going down this evening or tomorrow and getting ourselves a 'new to us' xb. I dont want to spend the extra money but that RS3 is awful nice.

I apoligize in advance to anyone whom will be offended by this purchase. Hopefully I wont be branded as the scion wrecker forever

Again, I appreciate all the comments. Its great to have access to a diverse group of xb owners, it really helps you think thru all the aspects a vehicle has to offer... and I havent even viewed the mods forums yet

-=gp125racer=-